How do you even begin to like/trust men

[EternallyUntrusting]

I'm 36 years old. I can hand on my heart say I don't like men. There are some men I have respect for at work (they are good at their jobs), but I don't like men.

If you knew me in real life you would think the absolute opposite. I dress 'for the male gaze', I outgoing, chatty, flirty, very confident. But to a man, I cannot stand the fuckers.

Every significant man since I was a child has turned out to be an utter cunt. My father beat and abused my mother and us. My first husband (lovely man to all and sundry), cheated on me and left me with 3 small children. I was single for a long time then. Lots of therapy, very angry with men and therapy seemed to consist of 'they aren't all the same, you are seeking out these men, good men exist'. My male therapist then fucking messaged me when he was drunk!

I then met a lovely man. Kind, successful, no drug problem, no criminal record. Promised me the absolute earth, my DC fell in love with him, when our DD was 9 mths old he walked out the door and I haven't seen him since (4 years ago).

Since then i've pretty much gone off my rocker. I am aware of how i am acting. I've actively sought out men to prove my theory that given long enough, given enough opportunity and the promise of it never getting out every single one of those fuckers will cheat on their wives/girlfriends or at least cross a line they shouldn't be crossing.

And I hate them for it. Even today, stood at the train station sheltering from the rain, a man about 20 years older than me starts a conversation about the brexit vote. Perfectly pleasant 10 min conversation. Then asks me for a drink. You sure your wife won't mind? He was wearing a fucking wedding ring!!

The same on here thread after thread after thread of 'lovely family men' cheating, using women for wife work, hiding from putting their kids to bed and just nasty useless cocklodgers.

Am I going to hate men for the rest of my life? Even now I've tried to stop proving to myself what wankers they are they seem to go out of their way to prove it to me!

I am totally with you. Majority of men are arseholes.
I had an abusive, aggressive father and brother..I married an abusive narcissistic man, with a narcissistic mother.

I attract, arrogant, loud mouthed wankers.
Since leaving my ex narc 4 years ago, I have not even bothered trying to get into a another relationship .

How do you trust another man after being married to a lying, cheating, manipulating arsehole?

I've given up with men as well.
I'd rather be on my own than in a shitty relationship being controlled by a narcissistic mummy's boy twat.

It has made me bitter and twisted.....I am cynical that there are any decent , single men out there.

If we were able to reproduce without them I think they would be extinct

That is all.

I’m sorry to hear about your experiences OP. You’re an amazing woman bringing up 4 children despite the men in your life.
I took have a severe distrust of men. The only man I’ve ever trusted is my dear departed father.
I’m recently fell out with my fourth long term partner/relationship, together nearly 4 years. He told me he loved me every day and generally kind and caring but I still don’t trust him. I found numbers on his phone if massage parlours. He swore it was curiosity and never visited. I doubt he did due to not being able to finance it however, the thought was there.
How do you trust when even the ones you thought were, to quote, ‘good eggs’ and they end up being rotten! I don’t know what the answer is tbh

There are so many delusional women on this thread. I’ve never got to know any married man who didn’t eventually proposition me. That includes men whose wives were heavily pregnant and those who had taken religious vows. They’re all dogs.

Every so often I ask friends / acquaintances what they would busy themselves with if they lived in the Stone Age and not in the present. It's an interesting conversation starter. I've had a few good chats grow out of that one.

At least half the men I've asked have blurted out things like "sneaking around the village at night shagging other men's wives in the bushes!" Its appallingly similar each time. I found it really unexpected but having thought it through it's not surprising. The question is disarming and fun, and it inadvertently accesses a fantasy of what one would do without social strictures... apparently for many men I talk to (decent, professional, partnered or not) that means sex with women who "belong" to other men.

Its disturbing.

Women usually say things like "picking berries", "campfire stories", "lazing in meadows looking at the sky" or asking questions about common activities in that time period...

I feel exactly the same. I could've written this post.

I plan to stay single forever and I'm happy with that.

Fuck the bastards.

@misspiggy19 you've only got to read the threads on here to realise men are bastards.

I have experienced exactly what OP has.

Given the chance any man would cheat.

Op I sympathise, I also think a lot of women are horrible but I know this thread is about men.

I've tried to find a good man for a partner and never managed it. I also had an abusive dad and brother and neglectful mother.

My kids dad lost interest in me once I'd had his children, then left. He owes me a lot of money. I've had two 'relationships' in the past five years and countless dates. The first 'relationship' I was blatantly stringing me along and using me for sex, whilst dangling the carrot of commitment. The second one 'will always love me' but he dropped me out of the blue and went to be with someone else, another cheating using prick.

I would love to meet someone kind, compassionate, genuine. Sadly the older I get the more I agree with you though ☹

I agree completely about the cheating too. So many married men have flirted and tried to get sex from me, including friends husbands, yuk! On dating sites loads of the men are cheating or just narcissists/players.

There are a few (Very few) men in my life who I love dearly. Trust? No.
There are some men I meet who I find funny, engaging. Until I got to mid 40s and started becoming thankfully sexually invisible, all of them without exception would make a pass at some point and I'd have to cut them out.
Married to my friend? or so called dear mate of my OH? Didn't stop them.
And that's not counting the occasions over the years when I was raped, assaulted or just harassed.
My view of men has been wary since childhood. I think there's such a thin thread holding most of them back from how they'd instinctively behave if they could get away with it.
And that's not to say I think all women are saints. Gawd, no! But I don't live with the knowledge that if I'm alone with another woman or "give the wrong sigbals" she may do me harm.
I just truly believe we're definitely different species, and peaceful coexistence is contingent on everyone following an invisible web of invisible rules.

Do you think our sons will grow up to be like these men? That's a sad thought...

Hi OP, I don't mean to offend you but have you actually considered that maybe you are the problem? It sounds to me that you seek attention and attract the wrong men. "I dress for the male gaze" - well maybe they see you at "that type of a woman". Also, as much as that will not be to your liking, have you considered that most loyal and worth-to-have-a-relationship-with-men will not be interested in getting involved with a woman with 3-4 kids from 2 different partners who has certain attitude when it comes to the opposite sex. Do you think that maybe you are the one who unfortunately attracts the wrong type of a guy ?

One again, I don't mean to offend you or your children.

onetwothreemore

Really?

@onetwothreemore, you haven't offended me. I just think that you don't understand.

There are no wrong men, there are just men. Do you not think some of these men are the lovely men that women think they are married to? The men with photos of their wives and kids on their desk. The men who take half term off and go to centre parcs with their families and give the wife a lie in and take the kids to feed the ducks. These are also the men who are knocking off their secretary on the side and calling her their little fuckdoll slut...

Believe me, i've done the legwork. For every woman who shows me her lovely man, I can show you a man who is anything but. Did you not see that recent thread about affairs in the workplace? Do you not think that all those men are married to women who think they are lovely family men/brothers/uncles/sons?

The point about dressing for the male gaze is relevant. Because when men think you 'that type of woman' they show their true selves. They feel safe that you will keep their secrets and you aren't like other women. This isn't theory, its borne out by evidence.

Regarding my son, who knows what kind of man he will become. He's grown up with strong female role models, at the moment I don't see signs of him growing up to be a wanker, but I would be naive to think he will be the exception to the rule (as much as I hope he will).

And re the point that I might not be someone the 'lovely men' would want to date. I make enough money to support myself and my children. I travel extensively, I have hobbies and interests. I can hold my own in a debate or 'intellectual' conversation. I look good for my age and I don't need a man to save me. Frankly I couldn't care less about appealing to the lovely men who wouldn't date a woman with 4 DC by 2 men. I wonder if you have the same opinion of men who have children by 2 different women? There are plenty of them around and they certainly don't carry the stigma that women do.

I agree with you OP. I am also contemptuous and distrusting of most men. I find their inherent selfishness off putting.

I wonder if you have the same opinion of men who have children by 2 different women? There are plenty of them around and they certainly don't carry the stigma that women do.

Tbf I think they men do get stigma for this but perhaps it depends on your circles & Im sure it's less stigma.

As other posters have mentioned I think a massive issue is that society conditions men that it's ok to be selfish & most men are entitled & not necessarily conscious of that.
I had a good role model in my dad who raised me to stand up for myself & taught me my feelings were valid. I've luckily never been treated badly & have a good husband although it takes me a long time to get into a relationship as I'm naturally guarded. I know lots of married men who leave their wives to pick up most of the childcare slack or cheat & I would never trust one 100%.

I agree with the thin invisible veneer & understand the point about women evolving. Look at where we have come in the last 100 years, I know loads of solvent, intelligent, healthy women with good careers who struggle to find partners of equal standing, I think some men can struggle if their role of provider is not the only thing they bring to a relationship.
If we woke up tmw & men & women in the country had swapped roles overnight eg majority of childcare was done by fathers, majority of mps & ceos were women I think a lot of "good" men including
my husband would struggle with the loss of power.

I get you OP.

Yes not 'all men' are fuckers but to compare them to women is wrong. Statistically more men are rapist, more men are violent, more men cheat etc etc.

However, you have four children you need to focus on. I do not understand why you have to keep proving your point?

I know many women who are happily single. They don't feel the need to 'prove' men are fuckers. They just get on with their lives.

You cannot change anything, so having this burning hatred inside is doing you no good.

I can fully emphathise. Aside from my father, the other males in my family and a couple of male friends, I do not trust them.
I have been cheated on, attempted rape, 1 abusive relationship, 2 situations where I was gaslighted/manipulated, called every name under the sun even though I had done nothing to deserve that.
The guy who dumped me for being 'too nice', the guy who 'suddenly' lost interest after sex, the other one who said sex made him 'realise" he still loved his ex.
Hassled for naked pictures then excuses about why he couldn't see me in person.
Ive had a married friend try it on with me and there is my best friend's fiancé who has said how good I look and stuff like that 🙄 and the guy who two-timed me with his girlfriend that i didn't know about.
I took an unsuccessful overdose nearly 3 years ago because I was tired of the constant emotional pain.
I have had other moments where I am suicidal but having therapy helped me.
I'm still in my 20s and i was admittedly highly naïve when I was younger and very low in confidence.
I'm a lot better now and I enjoy being single, focusing on my athletics and genuinely leading a busy and fulfilling life.

Sadly I believe that men are wired differently to us. They are very visual and highly motivated by sex. They need it and will lie, manipulate and cheat to get it.
However I do believe that there are a select number of men out there who are honest and loyal. There are less but they do exist.
But we as women are strong and powerful. I know a lot of people do want a relationship and do want that connection, sometimes I do too. We will remain strong and not let any man make us feel bad or mistreat us, don't give up hope. The good men are out there, there will always be shit ones but I really believe there are very decent ones.

Im with you @op..being someones'other half' isnt for me either.Im not bitter or resentful-ive just come to know myself well after10years of singledom.I had2 marriages&have been friends with many men(left over from school&uni years)who have told me theyve cheated&actually asked me for advice,work colleagues ran their wives and partners down&slept with anyone whod look at them(sleepover shifts at work being an open door invite) im glad to be out of it all. My oldest male friend at45 years doesnt sleep with his wife anymore but has a mucky massage a few times a month&is chuffed they have separate bank accounts so she doesnt know😡..for me personally ive found im far happier on my own with my kids-knowing i dont owe anybody else my time,explanations,justifications or simply-vast oceans of emotions im not interested in sharing😊I cannot actually think of one couple who would hand on heart say theyre happy or whose relationship i envy.

I think that sadly you are right. I feel the same.

OP I kind of understand. Even though the men in my life are the good guys they definitely are a different species. It's true that the blinkers fall off the older you get.

If DH dropped dead tomorrow my future relationships would be with much younger men or with women. Frankly, men my own age do not compare favourably.

I'm not a big fan of men either. I love my partner (15 years together) he does more than me at home, supports my career, has the same political beliefs particularly around feminism and women's rights. But most other men.. nah. I do know a few who are decent (like 3)
You've had some bad experiences and there are nice men out there. In your op it struck me about what you said about dressing and acting for the male gaze. If you're happy with this continue with it. But I'm not sure you are. I'm not going to go into the crap about looking a certain way and attracting a certain type of attention. Because you should be able to act and look how you want. But if you feel like you have a pressure to be a certain way in every aspect of yourself you are likely to feel very much at the mercy of men and male gaze.

If you don’t like men they stay away from them. Easy. I wouldn’t be in a relationship with someone who didn’t like my sex. Who would?