Problem with new daughter in law

[wishiwasinthesun]

Hi

Need some advice please.

My son has been with his partner now for a few years and they have a baby (6 mths old). I used to get on really well with her.

My sons ex-wife is lovely and we have a really good relationship. Have known her for a long time. She is the mother to my 2 eldest grandchildren who are now teenagers. The problem is with my son's new partner who has issues with my son's ex-wife.

I am going on holiday next year and am going with son's ex-wife. Since his new partner found out she hasn't spoken to me. My son has quite an amicable relationship with his ex-wife and they co-parent really well.

Things are very difficult now with his new partner, I don't feel that I can go to their house to see my grandchild. On 2 occasions she has just got up and walked out when we have been there, only returning several hours later.

Have tried talking to her about this but she just shuts me down saying that I have made my choice. My son is stuck in the middle and does ring me frequently and says that I can visit whenever I want but it is such a horrible atmosphere. I don't live near my son so visits have to be planned and I don't think he would be allowed to come to visit us on his own with baby.

WWYD??

@awarmglow because if you dont go on holiday with exdil she isnt likely to find that a betrayal because she will be aware as anyone of the weird dynamic. Its unlikely to threaten the relationship between mil and ex-dil to pull out.
If you piss off the current dil too much, youre unlikely to see her as much and often by default, her kid or even your son.
You can argue about the rights and wrongs of different peoples dynamics, but ultimately she has some power here.
Id be doing some serious smoothing over here to retain the relationship for the sake of all my grandchildren, not just the older ones. There is no way on earth id risk this to prove a bloody point or for a holiday

I have been with my Husband for over 20 years. My in laws are like second parents as they’ve seen me grow up from being a teenager.
It would not be odd for me to go away with them for a holiday if I separated from DH. And it would not be odd for them to want to take me and their grandchildren away.

Providing I hadn’t done the dirty on DH and caused the split I would think they’d like to keep in touch and have a similar relationship.

It’s lovely that you are able to have this relationship with your son’s ex.

Your new DIL should stop being childish and at least speak to you about it all.

If you piss off the current dil too much, youre unlikely to see her as much and often by default, her kid or even your son.

But that's not happening here. OP is still seeing her son and grandchild. It sounds like the son isn't playing into whatever his gf's problem is.

@ExhaustedFlamingo

Agree entirely with your post and was about to post something similar. Just two points I'd add:

• wondering if the ex DiL is the same ex who her son split with amicably after she had two affairs
• a new mother without a marriage contract or smilar legal financial agreement is the vulnerable partner in a relationship and in this case we know the current partner wants the marriage

There is plainly something in the dynamic not expressed in the OPs posts and equally something has changed since the last holiday when everyone was apparently just fine with the holiday scenario.

I agree that the words that were had in private could be key to this whole thread.

a new mother without a marriage contract or smilar legal financial agreement is the vulnerable partner in a relationship and in this case we know the current partner wants the marriage

This vulnerability is entirely of her own making. She was in complete control over whether she put herself in this position or not. That's really no OP's problem.

She was in complete control over whether she put herself in this position or not

We don't know do we? We don't know whether the son originally promised marriage, we don't know whether something else has changed. Presumably the son wanted another child but unless they have created some form of civil contract he isn't willing to put the usual protections in place.

@ExhaustedFlamingo Good analysis.

Also, @saraclara the OP has -said- how much she likes the DiL but sometimes what people write and how they act are different. At the very least she hasn't been empathetic about the mum of a pretty new baby, who wants to be married but isn't, is potentially going to feel about her MIL going away with the mother of her partner's childen. Some people would feel fine about it, but by the number of replies on this thread it's clear that many wouldn't and that could have been taken into account.

Mainly though her husband clearly doesn't like the new mum and there's something a bit odd going on there. She doesn't want to clarify why, fair enough, but it's clear the dynamics are strained. If the DiL senses this, she is going to naturally turn down the idea of going away on holiday with them. Would anyone here go away on holiday with someone who they can probably sense dislikes them?

There's more going on than is on the surface, I'm certain Exhausted is right

We don't know do we? We don't know whether the son originally promised marriage, we don't know whether something else has changed.

Even if he did, why did she not wait to be married to have a child, if it's so important to her? I can't think of any other rational circumstance where the gf couldn't have been in complete control.

There is definitely more to this - especially with the drip feed of a private conversation not to be repeated..

OP - YANBU wanting to go on hols with GC and EX DIL.

I am just finding it odd how much you want to go with her as you keep saying how little contact you have with her (b'day and Xmas only).

I understand you asked DS's current partner last year and she declined but you do not say why she declined. Was this when she was pregnant/morning sickness? Or did she just not want to come and made you aware.

You say you talk with current partner daily and love her more but some of the comments you have made seem a little snarky.

OP, you are entitled to go on hols with whom you like but why you'd want to do this with someone you rarely see at the cost of the relationship with DS's current partner is a bit confusing. I bet Ex DIL is loving this.

I do think something has kicked off in the background with Ex DIL, DS and current partner since she became pregnant - previously, Ex DIL was only person giving OP grandchildren with her DS. New baby changes dynamics somewhat.

Even if he did, why did she not wait to be married to have a child, if it's so important to her?
This.
Their marital status is irrelevant.

MN is bizarre at times. There's two parents co-parenting amicably for the benefit of the children. Grandparents have remained amicable and will holiday with the ex and grandchildren for the benefit of the children. The OP has made an effort with her son's new partner and sees all the children.

And yet still there's people clutching at straws to argue that the blokes family must have done something because the partner is vulnerable and there must be a back story where the partner is justified in causing tension, drama and throwing a strop because she's a new mum and a woman.

It's a very one sided perspective to keep banging on about how the DIL should be fine with it because it's "for the benefit of the ex and the grandchildren". Just because something is positive for one person doesn't mean it will be nice for somebody else. Why should DIL enjoy this dynamic because it is good for somebody else? Her world and feelings do not revolve around the ex and kids.

DIL knows her FIL doesn't like her, she's probably feeling rejected by her partner and may be in a bad place about it, he is also not supportive of her feelings and this could be a general thing, and now the one person she thought did like her a lot (OP) is going on holiday with the woman her DP was happy to marry. From her perspective, people are going to great lengths to make her DPs ex of many years still feels like family, whereas she doesn't even feel like family now because of the actions of her DP and FIL. She's probably just had enough and decided she's never going to feel welcome in this family so she's just going to back off and focus on her own and her baby.

No it's not OPs "problem" as everyone keeps saying, but likewise it isn't DILs "problem" that OP wants to maintain a good relationship with the ex. None of it is anyone's problem, but it's not nice to her and she's clearly decided to step away from things that are making her sad.

We don't all ignore our feelings because they're not anyone else's problem, if the woman wants some space from her partner's family then just bloody well let her have it. People can be so unsympathetic on here.

@novembersbean

I think you've summarised it by saying why DIL might feel put out but acknowledging that it is her problem. That's what I was talking about earlier. Before, I (only half subconciously) believed that it was the job of my loved ones to adjust their actions to accommodate my feelings if they really loved me. I thought a healthy relationship was someone (in this situation) who would demand their mother move to a civil relationship with the ex and also follow suit. I thought people like MIL had the onus to make an effort with me because I had blessed their son with my presence in his life. This would mean that MIL should adapt her actions to keep on good terms with me.

Now I see that really, my MIL has far less need for me in her life than I have need for her. Yes I do things for and with her but she has other people who could do the same or she could do it herself. I need for her for advice, childcare and a sense of family on my doorstep that I don't have with my own. My husband also needs a partner who is happily integrated into his family. So actually, I should do what I can to accommodate her choices that might impact on me negatively because it is as much my responsibility and in my own interests for me to keep on good terms with her. Sure,to maintain a close relationship with her son and easy access to her grandchildren,she needs to get along with me but she doesn't need that for her household to tick along smoothly. The truth is that I do.

It is a compromise. A balance. She doesn't owe me anything but actually, I need to be okay with her for a happy home. Luckily, she makes that very easy.

We don't all ignore our feelings because they're not anyone else's problem, if the woman wants some space from her partner's family then just bloody well let her have it. People can be so unsympathetic on here.

I do agree with this and actually from some of her updates it appears that OP has come to the conclusion she should let the gf have space. There may be an an impact on how frequently OP sees her younger grandchild but I doubt OP is prepared to let the gf hold a gun to her head, and so she'll crack on with her own life.

Re the comments about FIL not liking the gf, and that being in part behind her insecurity, none of us know what she said to FIL. He may dislike her with good reason.

My mil once said to me 'if I want to go for a coffee with xxx then I will' I thought ok love you do that..

I'd didn't even know they met for coffee so I certainly hadn't said she couldn't. But after that I haven't ever wanted to be more than civil to her.

My husband wasn't even married to the woman, just together a long time before me. We're now married with a son. I still won't forget how she made me feel with that one sentence. Her loss.

I think a lot of people have missed a key point (unless I misunderstood) OP says that her and the exDIL also went on holiday last year. She also explains that for years they’ve had a good relationship, talk daily etc. She said it’s only since announcing she’s going on holiday with her again this time, that new DIL isn’t speaking to her.
So she’s known you’ve had a great relationship with the ex in the past and holidayed with her and didn’t have an issue with it then, but now she does. It’s either the insecurity and vulnerability after having a baby or there is something else that we don’t know about.

ChilledBee that's a very interesting perspective. I guess I feel very differently because I definitely don't need my MIL for anything. She's not someone I would go to for advice on parenting because I privately disagree with her approach and she doesn't provide childcare. I have my own family who are far more of a rock for my partner and I than his side of the family - I think it's fairly common to have somewhat more to do with one side of the family and mine are our main support.

I do think there's something oddly sinister and matriarchal about suggesting a man's partner needs to grovel and vie to impress their MIL to be accepted by the family beyond just standard good manners, even if it means swallowing feelings that are genuinely hurting them. It feels like just another way of pitting women against other women and not something that would happen amongst men. I'm not auditioning for the role of DIL with the Queen Bee, I am my OH's choice of life partner and that's that, really, our family is secure regardless if her approval. We are all polite and courteous to each other but I certainly don't feel I should have to ignore and put up with any grievances with my MIL because she is higher in the pecking order and therefore only her feelings are valid.

If I have a problem with my MIL (and I do have some) I will be true to my feelings and politely disengage, just as I would with anyone else in the world. This is what OPs DIL has done.

Imo you are doing nothing wrong.

Is fine to acknowledge her feelings and say to her you understand why she feels threatened - but also point out that you have grandchildren that aren't hers too and you are able to have a relationship with them all.

I'm glad your son isn't following the general MN advice if NC when a parent doesn't jump to the tune of their spouse because in this case I don't think you are doing anything wrong.

We don't all ignore our feelings because they're not anyone else's problem, if the woman wants some space from her partner's family then just bloody well let her have it. People can be so unsympathetic on here.
There's having some space and being rude and stroppy.

Not wanting to go for coffee - totally fine
Turning down the offer of a holiday - fine
Getting moody because your partner's parents are going on holiday with their grandchildren and their mother - reasonable to maybe feel put out for a day or so, but unreasonable to take a huff

Making a point of getting up and leaving when a relative arrives - silly and childish stroppy behaviour

It's not the role of the wider family to alter what they're doing to suit someone who has suddenly taken umbridge about sides being chosen etc.
The partner has chosen to join a blended family, they have chosen to join a family where her partner and his ex are amicable and the wider family has maintained positive relationships, she's chosen to have a child in this blended family.

She doesn't get to make things awkward or be a drama llama in the hope everyone slots around her. Doing so would just feed the idea that you get what you want by being stroppy.

I haven’t read all the posts sorry if this had already been said. Op you risk alienating your son and his current partner. You need to take a step back and think about where your loyalties lay with your son or his ex. You can’t have both.

LolaSmiles

I don't disagree with you but it sort of depends how stroppy she is being. I don't see anything wrong with her taking herself out of the way when someone that upsets her is around, there's no reason she has to be there. If her "you made your choice comment" was made in response to OP asking her what was wrong then yes I agree it's a bit dramatic, but she did ask so it's not unreasonable to answer.

If, on the other hand, she was seeking out arguments with OP or deliberately NOT leaving when she was around so that she could hopefully create a bad atmosphere that people would feel pushed into bowing down to, I would say she was being unreasonable.

But there's nothing wrong with walking away from a situation that makes you uncomfortable. It's controlling and unsympathetic to expect her to sit there swallowing her feelings. And if this is a tip of the iceberg situation and she has been putting up with the situation quietly for a long time and just snapped (which seems likely), then I do understand why she has lost her cool on one occasion.

Well colour me gobsmacked! Why on earth would you think that what you are doing is even remotely appropriate?

@wishiwasinthesun you have the freedom to make any choice you like, you are NOT free however from the consequences of that choice.

It's one thing to be on good terms with your sons ex wife but a holiday is totally inappropriate!

We have a fraught relationship with my husbands ex wife (her fault not ours) and if my MIL went on holiday with her I would never speak to her again!

Whilst it's great you've kept on good terms with your ex DIL you ARE effectively picking her over your current one. Your relationship with her is now ruined and it is entirely your fault, no one else's.

Your DIL is not the one who is being unreasonable: you sound like the MIL from hell, only concerned with what you want and your own feelings.

If you didn't have a good relationship with you DIL in law to begin with I could at least understand your choice (even if it's wrong: which it is) but the fact you had a good relationship which you've chosen to destroy with your selfish behaviour renders me speechless.

I'm disgusted to be honest.

I agree with @Novembersbean.. much more eloquent than my post.

Your new DIL is not the problem OP.

Whilst it's great you've kept on good terms with your ex DIL you ARE effectively picking her over your current one

Why? They're not in an exclusive relationship. Can't she be friendly with both?

And yet still there's people clutching at straws to argue that the blokes family must have done something

No people are saying there is probably more than one side to this. A previously good relationship which included the current partner being happy with the OP and exDIL going on holiday together has changed.

Something happened to elicit that change, that is the part we don't know. All we know is that the OP's DH has issues with the current partner and there is a new baby on the scene, perhaps it relates to one of those things or maybe its something else but a previously good relationship doesn't disappear for no reason.