But we took you to Stately Homes" August 2019 onwards thread

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It's August 2019, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
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December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018 - May 2019

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

BelindasGleeTeam

You should certainly post here and I would definitely suggest that you try counselling. It can't do any harm, but it may help you a lot.

I posted last week about how I had a difficult childhood but my parents were never deliberately mean or abusive, they just made a lot of mistakes. As if I didn't have it 'bad enough' compared to others.

Well I started with a new counsellor yesterday and he said that what I've had to deal with is huge, and many people who need his help only have a fraction of this stuff on their plate. He said he kept hearing me try to minimise the bad things, e.g. mum did X bad thing, but I got over it and she wasn't so bad after. He thinks it's because I've spent so long trying to be 'good' and normal and maintain the facade of everything being ok, that I can seem to accept when things aren't ok. Or I recognise it but feel like I have to get on with being 'normal' so I minimise it. It sounds like you're similar Belinda.

The counsellor said the more I keep going without recognising what's wrong, the further I stretch the elastic band and eventually it will snap. He seems to have a lot more insight than my last counsellor so hopefully it will go well.

Hi @BelindasGleeTeam😊
What you describe sounds very dysfunctional, it sounds as if your parents are dismissive, don't really see you or listen to you, the message being 'you are not important, you don't matter' This is very damaging to children it's important to build a healthy sense of self-esteem in order to be a functional adult.
It sounds as if your instincts are good though since you are already distancing yourself from them and considering getting professional help.

Oh wow Cherrycee he sounds so warm and empathetic. I think I would have cried! It feels amazing when someone validates you.

I agree, with you that Belinda should absolutely be here. It’s only when you begin to accept that you didn’t get the parenting that you needed to feel safe that you can start to look after your mental wellbeing effectively.

Being angry is actually very encouraging, it means you’re trusting your reactions, and not minimising them to make others happy.

BACP website will give you therapists in your area. Be specific in your initial contact though that you need someone who understands that you are not looking to work on reuniting with your family.

I also agree that friends don't get it, so talking to them can be counterproductive.

Most people were lucky to have decent, or at least 'good enough' parents. Most people received love, nurturing and stability as children. Therefore the societal norm of families being close and parents being loved and appreciated fits with them. They feel uncomfortable with anything that doesn't reflect that.

Cherry that sounds very positive about your new counsellor😊
was it a long slog to find him or did you just get lucky?

Thanks Hero and Ulter - fingers crossed it continues to go well. He did say there are a lot of deep rooted issues and its going to take time to work through them, so it won't just be a 4 or 6 week job.

I'm in Ireland so no NHS, you can go to any counsellor you like but you have to pay. Many do special rates as they're attached to charities or local health services. I picked an organisation I had heard good things about and booked the counsellor who was available that day and it seems to have worked out. A couple of years ago I went to someone else, and she was a nice empathetic woman but very hippy dippy (ask the universe for what you want, etc) which is not my thing at all. I want someone more pragmatic who can help me understand myself and give me practical ways to move forward. She was also very anti medication which wasn't particularly helpful as it resulted in me putting off going to the GP for a long time.

See that's the thing, we were looked after. Very much so.

I just feel like they were too busy looking after other people to notice what was under their noses; two teens who were struggling mentally. I am academic and competitive and so at school etc did fine and my independent nature meant I got through it ok, though I have low self esteem and don't push myself for fear of failure and struggle a bit socially because I dont really like myself and fail to see why others would.

It's sounds like you were looked after materially Belinda (nice home, food on the table, etc) but children also have emotional needs, and it seems like yours were not met. It's ok to recognise that and feel sad/angry/frustrated. While my situation wasn't exactly the same, I definitely relate to a lot of what you say. I was also independent and determined and I got through it to a point, but my self esteem is not good and I sometimes struggle socially too.

I had obvious mental health issues as a teenager (anorexia) mother became very involved with a colleague at work who had a similar issue, father didn't even notice that I was skeletal and insisted that as far as he was concerned I was eating normally and there was nothing wrong with me.
At the time I was very secretive and wanting to hide my behaviour anyway so this did not strike me as problematic but looking back I can see that it was just a way of sweeping me under the carpet, if they acknowledge that I had mental health problems they would have to look at the cause of them and acknowledge that I had been the victim of a pedophile as a child etc etc. This was all too inconvenient and embarrassing for them I suppose, a slur on their good name 🙄
It's a way of sending a message that you're not important, bottom of the pile, you might think you should be priority because you are their child but oh no no everyone else comes before you.

That's awful Ulter

It really is incredible how people can be so blind (or willfully ignorant) where their child's welfare is concerned. I hope you have support around you now

Hi @belinda, welcome to the thread, looks like you've got some good advice. I agree, counselling surely is worth a pop.
Sorry to hear that @Ulterego, that is very sad. It's just unimaginable that 'parents' would prioritise there own status/wants/needs over their kids emotional well-being. Why do some people even bother having children? Probably just so they can have another thing they can show off about, show how accomplished and impressive they are, maybe that's it? You're an inanimate object in their eyes. God knows, it makes no sense. It infuriates me reading about the stuff people on here have had to put up with. It's a disgrace!

I'm so sorry @Ulterego but this is the way these abusers operate. They contain any issues within the four walls of home and then project a "perfect family" appearance in social situations. I too felt like I had to hide my behaviour, I've suffered from an eating disorder as an adult and because of conditioning felt I had to still hide my behaviour (and my self harm) from my DP because I couldn't dare to express it to my parents for fear of being shot down, ridiculed, and told that I was "the problem". I clearly had mental health problems, especially as a teen, which received scant regard from my parents and they never sought medical advice for them, as it would impact of their "perfect family" bullshit dynamic.

And yes, bottom of the pile, the runt of the family, the massive inconvenience is something I can very much relate to.

I'm still not ready to talk about seeing the psychiatrist on Tuesday, I'm still processing everything and it's stirred up powerful emotions.

Same here, fell apart at Uni, got sent home to family GP. Got anti-d’s, and DP’s basically said I just needed to get on with my life, so I went straight back to uni and just sort of existed. I think my DP’s were a bit embarrassed actually. It was viewed as a weakness on my part. I went to a counselling session at the uni service but it was hopeless. I couldn’t concentrate, my thoughts became quite disordered and I slept a lot. Awful.

Thanks for all your replies yesterday. It's good to talk to people who understand.

@milliefiori I'm sorry your dad put you through that, that sounds humiliating. My mum has always been more subtle with her behaviour, which is probably why people dont want to believe that she did anything wrong.

@Ulterego that strategy is very tempting! I will need to be feeling strong before I go down that road as the fury is so strong, it's quite terrifying.

@Herocomplex I agree, people who have had issues with their own parents are definitely more understanding and willing to believe that parents can behave badly to their children.

@Attila I've always suspected my mother is narcissistic. There is definitely a golden child in our family (not me clearly!) Children of the self absorbed sounds good, as that sums up my mum.

@MarmadukeM I need to think about what I want from her. She is a better grandparent to my DC than she ever was a parent. I'm not strong enough just now to confront her, but am on a waiting list for more counselling so maybe that will help.

@Etty it threw me when friends reacted the way they did to me confiding in them. It's almost like they think as I never complained when I was younger it cant have been that bad. But some things about childhood only become clear once you're out of it, or have your own children.

@Belinda I can empathise with being looked after physically, but children need more than that dont they? My mum still shows me how incapable she is to provide emotional support to anyone. Its like shes got that part of her brain missing.

I will need to be feeling strong before I go down that road as the fury is so strong, it's quite terrifying
Light the blue touch paper (send the e-mail) and retreat to a safe distance
this is an ambush, you retain the advantage, so absolutely protect yourself first, think everything through, make sure they cant cause you any damage

I have an unsent letter that I wrote last year. It might need a bit of my anger taken out of it. Will dig it out and see if I can face sending it.

Why do some people even bother having children
In my case *Marmaduke...shotgunwedding, I was a mistake and I can see now that in their own ways they made me pay for ruining their lives
(watch out oldsters... ima pay you back now)

Thank you *Cherry:)

*SimplySteve, I can relate to that sense of shame and having to hide problems away:(
That sounds like a very intense appointment with your psychiatrist, I hope you can find some way to move forward

Walk please think very carefully and talk it over with people who understand these things, it can be a nuclear option (I think I was a little too blase in my post)

Thank you everyone.

It's a very hard thing to get your head round: that your parents weren't actually right all the time. Though liberating as I'm finally feeling like myself with perspective, age and distance.

Much of this is printed by my sibling and their recent crimes. I'm still coming to terms with it but the repercussions have been huge and far reaching. Some of my anger comes from the fact said person was the golden child and everyone else was told to leave them alone because they were so lovely. Except they weren't.

I'm definitely going to try and find a counsellor and talk to them.

You've given me the push to try it.

@Walkinthegreengarden - seriously, before sending the letter, read up on Narcissistic parents and how to deal with them. Most experts suggest no confrontation. Nothing changes except you become the target of more venom and manipulation. Know what you are dealing with before sending the letter.

I won't do anything rash. Just the thought of causing a permanent fallout was a bit tempting! But realistically I'm not up to it right now. I will keep contact as low as possible and do some reading.

I think sending a letter rarely results in a good outcome Walk. The only way it can is if the person in question is open to hearing the truth and is genuinely sorry. But it's a catch 22 because the kind of person who would care and feel sorry for what they've done could not be a narc in the first place. It might be better to write a new letter to get all the tension out, then burn it.

Belinda It's quite normal for an event in our adult lives to be a trigger. It brings back memories and then we can view our past from an adult perspective and see what went wrong. For many people it happens when they have kids and they see the contrast between the way they behave as parents, and the way they were parented. In my case it was my uncle's terminal illness and death, and my mother's appalling behaviour towards him at the time.

My uncle's terminal illness and death and my mother's appalling behaviour towards him
Cherry a similar pattern in my life recently, very serious thing happen to a loved one of mine, parent responded in a very cold way, gave the impression of wanting to kick this person whilst this person was down.
It's hard to fathom what's going on, why they don't realise that their behaviour makes them look extremely bad, has something shifted so that they don't have self awareness or is it just that there were no extreme events previously which exposed their behaviour?

See I'm the person wanting to do the kicking. And I'm being made to feel bad.....for protecting my kids from my sibling who has complex MH needs and is a convicted sex abuser.

So yeah, definitely traumatic.

You're not kicking this person while they're down though, you're protecting yourself and your family. Are your parents trying to put on a show for the outside world and rounding on you because you won't play along?