But we took you to Stately Homes" August 2019 onwards thread

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It's August 2019, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
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Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018 - May 2019

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Herocomplex there was a weird dynamic between them, she belittled him and hounded him constantly yet he was very controlling with me and my sister. Especially about what we wore, we werent allowed to wear anything tight or revealing ever. I was banned from wearing leggings even as a young teenager as they were revealing. Actually as im writing this im begining to see how strange he was.

Go carefully Loopy, moving into the realisation that the parent who you felt was vaguely decent was actually just as bad is really painful. X

Anyway he took me to a big outlet store, and he went straight to the boys shoe section and made me try on boys shoes
Nasty, spiteful punishment, refusing to acknowledge a fundamental thing about you, ie that you are a girl :(
'You're not allowed to be yourself or express yourself you have to walk in the shoes that I tell you to walk in'
:(

you have to walk in the shoes that I tell you to walk in

And not just for one relatively short day but for day after day, month in and month out, till the bloody things wear out.

I could cry for you, Loopylou.

I advise you not to damage your relationship with DB by trying to use him as a mediator or attempting to mine him for information
I think steam will shoot out of her ears as she reads this, then she will go get the thumb screws to use on your bother.
She will 'mine' the letter for material to use against you, she'll have it published in the local rag if she thinks it will make you 'see sense'.
I'm not saying dont do it but be aware that you have lit the blue touch paper and should now retreat to a safe distance.
I dont mean to trivialise anything with my flippancy, but I do feel that the letters are (in many ways) just sugar coating the underlying message of 'f-off you're doing my head in'
namaste everyone

Good evening all.

I have been a bit quiet of late, things with terminally ill Grandfather have been getting progressively worse and he passed away at home yesterday evening.

Feeling strangely ok with it, I think I had mentally prepared myself for a long time so it wasn't much of a shock.

I wasn't there when he passed, my sister, mother, father and grandmother were.

Although he was never abusive to me he was passive and enabling, allowing my batshit grandmother to be abusive to her children and grandchildren. I've not had contact with her for a few months now, gone completely no contact.

I visited GF in hospital a couple of weeks ago, alone, when she wasn't there. I feel as though I am glad I did. I think I knew it would be the last time I saw him.

I am now having a bit of internal conflict about the funeral. There are no plans yet of course, apparently the funeral director is going over there tomorrow (which my mother said I was most welcome to attend - I declined - wouldn't be appropriate with young DD and I don't want to see GM). I just can't imagine being in the same room as her (GM) and I can certainly imagine her being rude and sniping at me, which obviously I wish to avoid.

I do kind of want to attend the funeral. He was my Grandfather and I'd like to pay my last respects. I have considered just shimmying in at the back but I don't know if that would cause more upset? I just don't know what to do, really.

TheLolaMontez I'm so sorry that you ve been through that. Can you say goodbye to your gf in your own way. Maybe visit a favourite place of his and have your own service/celebration of his life. I ve always found that in these situations your damned if you do and your damned if you dont. So what do you want to do? I think slipping in the back at the funeral is a good compromise. How does your mum view her mother. Sorry I dont know your story.

That's how I feel to be honest, damned regardless of what I choose to do. I'm not 100% what I want to do but the slipping in at the back feels most favourable currently.

Mum knows how abusive and horrible GM is but she makes excuses and ignores her behaviour. GM is abusive to my mum too but she always goes running back to her and will bend over backwards to appease her. I have very little respect for my mother as my father was extremely emotionally and mentally abusive to me and my sister when we were growing up and she stood by and did nothing.

Both of our parents are emotionally immature and are probably completely unaware of what a terrible job they did raising us. Either that or they don't care.

Both of our parents are emotionally immature and are probably completely unaware of what a terrible job they did raising us. Either that or they don't care.

I'd put my money on both, Lola.

I'm sorry for your dilemma and remember your earlier posts. It depends on how well your grandmother could be expected to behave at a solemn occasion like this. The fact that all eyes will be on her as the grieving but dignified widow might just be enough to satisfy her vanity and make her determined to play her part to perfection. In that case, it would be safe for you to slip in at the back. Although obviously you'd want to spare your DD from that, is there someone you could take with you for quiet but obvious support?

I ask only because I had a similar dilemma for my father's funeral a month ago. My mother was the very model of grief and dignity, referring to my father as her soulmate and openly musing how she could possibly bear to spend the rest of her life without the love of her life. (The answer to that question soon became apparent: within days, she had decluttered ruthlessly, had the carpets replaced and resumed socialising with the neighbours where she is the centre of attention. A month on, she no longer refers to him as her soulmate but as "the poor old thing, he did his best, I suppose").

The snag for me - and possibly for you - is that attending the funeral means I'm temporarily back in contact with my family. Low contact, but contact nonetheless. I'm biding my time until I can slip back over the horizon but there's the scattering of the ashes to be held first. That's soon.

If you think your grandmother will cause a scene, however, Loopylou offers a good suggestion.

Best wishes, Lola, whatever you decide.

In all honesty, I don't know how she will behave.

Her son (my uncle) passed away earlier this year also. At his funeral, she fell asleep and then laughed when she was jolted awake by people clapping one of the speakers. She spent most of the afternoon scoffing "and who are you?" In peoples faces when they came over to her and GF to offer their heart felt condolences.

She never thanked anyone for attending and I think it was because his wife had organised everything and it was an amazing turn out, over 150 people attended, as he was so well loved and respected within the community and his line of work.
Instead of her being proud of her son she was clearly jealous that his wife had organised something so brilliant and she had had very little part in it, although his wife had given her every opportunity to be involved.

According to my sister, who was there when GF passed, she (GM) did not seem upset or sad. She kept saying things such as "I wish I could close his mouth" (he passed away with his mouth a little open) and "I wonder if the church yard in the village is full?" She was also moaning about having to plan the funeral, whilst he was still alive and in ear shot.

It upsets me to think that he would have heard those things in his last moments. My sister didn't hear her say goodbye to him either as he passed, she wasn't touching him, just hovering around as if she was drumming her fingers waiting for the inevitable.

It's such a massive contrast to my uncle's passing, who was sat with his wife holding his hand, describing to him that they were both together in their own little paradise, watching the birds and enjoying the sun. My uncle passed away with a small smile on his face.

You'd like to hope that after 60 odd years of marriage there would be some sort of compassion or love she could pull from somewhere for him in his last moments. Too much to ask I suppose.

I am just glad that my GF is free now.

Before my DF funeral my mother asked me to look after HER cousin who was attending on his own because he wouldn't know anyone. This was a guy 25 years older than me who I had only met a handful of times in my life. I just ignored her not wanting any kind of battle on the day of my DF funeral.

After the cremation/service my mother came up to me again to "remind" me what I had been "asked" to do!

I ignored her again and hang out with my DH, DB, SIL and my first cousins who I actually know and wanted around to support me.

Add to this that I was 11 weeks pregnant at the time drugged up on antiemetics, constantly on the brink of vomiting, and trying to hide it as only a few people at the funeral knew.

It just shows how little my feelings and needs feature for my mother, even her cousin was more important at my own Dads funeral.

regarding this 'completely off the charts behaviour' thing.....the astonishing level of self-absorption, the complete lack of self awareness, it leaves everyone floundering, they deserve for people to just point and laugh at them, but no one wants to do that because it just makes you look bad but if you try and cover up for them, pretend it's normal, everything gets completely bent out of shape 🤦‍♀️

my therapist commented about my parents seeing me as extensions of themselves, anything that happens to me is only a concern it affects them directly, they do not empathize with me at all but they happily soak up any empathy that I give them.
If something bad happens in my life if their only concern is that people will find out and it will make them look bad because of the shame and the stigma... As I have mentioned on this thread before when I disclosed that had been sexually abused as a child my parent's chief concern was to shut me down and stop me going to the police there was no acknowledgement of my suffering or any wrongdoing on the part of the paedophile.
On the subject of consulting a therapist, it seems to me that her insights and acknowledgments carry more weight because in my eyes she has authority she has experience and professional qualifications she knows of what she speaks (I am absolutely not taking anything away from the amazing support that is available on this thread)
It feels as if having her 'official seal of approval' has a much greater power to rewire my brain, I've only started on this journey recently though and I'd be interested to hear the thoughts and insights of those who are further along!
Namaste everyone
💗 🙏💗

obviously this thread could be very triggering but I think it could also be instructive?
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3719669-To-want-to-know-what-its-like-if-you-have-parents-who-loved-you-very-much-and-raised-you

Moving home, no internet.

I'm at my grandparents crematorium, seeking answers to unanswerable questions, I can feel their presence yet I cannot find them, it's been 30+ years.cant cope, bereft and filled with more emotion I've dared to release in so very long.

@ulterego

I started reading that thread and stopped. I realised some years ago that it didn't matter if my mother lives until 90, i'd still never know what recieving unconditional motherly love felt like.

One of the saddest realisations for me when they died was that I knew I would never know complete and unconditional love like that again.

Painful read that thread but also therapeutic to know that this true love that we all hoped for does actually exist. Some people felt the huge loss when their parents died but some of us feel that huge loss everytime we are faced with the disappointing reality and realising the idealistic expectations of true love is just in our heads. The death of that expectation was the hardest part for me.

Cyw, I completely get why you prefer not to read The thread, for me it feels validating, it tells me in no uncertain terms that things weren't right I did not have a supportive upbringing, it helps me to feel justified in doing what I can to work on myself and protect myself from the effect of my parents.

In my case I don't mourn what I didn't have because I can't imagine that things could have ever been different, they are the products of their own upbringings, that's just the way it was but I have the right to do what I can to make a good life for myself, I do not owe them anything.

SimplySteve, are you ok? are you safe? can you make a nest for yourself somewhere?

@SimplySteveRedux
I've been wondering how you are, hoping this meant you were having a period of stability and calm. I'm sorry. Everything sounds so painful for you right now. Just try to get through each day as it comes and let tomorrow take care of itself. Hope your wifi is sorted out soon so that you can get back in touch. Your voice is much missed on here. 💐

The thread, for me it feels validating, it tells me in no uncertain terms that things weren't right I did not have a supportive upbringing, it helps me to feel justified in doing what I can to work on myself and protect myself from the effect of my parents.

This with bells on. Exactly how I felt reading it, although that thread is why I'm at this crematorium right now.

I'm safe, I've been all around the gardens and even though I'm 90% sure I know where they are the mind plays tricks after over 30 years. I'm having the office search their records.

I could ask my parents, but that would invite questions, judgments, opinions and recriminations I have no time or energy for.

Can't stop bloody crying!

• @SimplySteveRedux I've been wondering how you are, hoping this meant you were having a period of stability and calm. I'm sorry. Everything sounds so painful for you right now. Just try to get through each day as it comes and let tomorrow take care of itself. Hope your wifi is sorted out soon so that you can get back in touch. Your voice is much missed on here. 💐*

Aww, so kind. I also have a bazillion emails I need to write, no internet until end of the month so I'm probably going to bung a month of unlimited mobile data on my phone tbh.

It's not been all bad, my darling, glorious, son and his wonderful partner have been over from Finland for a couple of weeks recently, first time we've seen him in almost three years. Was glorious.

The house move is slow, partly thanks to needed repairs (leaking sinks and no hot water aren't much fun), and due disabilities so it's being done in chunks. Hopefully done over the weekend, we're on the last room, which is 75% done.

I hope you are at peace.

Oh god I just read some of that thread and it made me cry a bit! The woman who said that her mum couldn't really talk anymore but she just said the word 'beautiful' to her. That's how I feel about my children, they are beautiful. Isn't that so lovely that she felt so loved and cherished? I think that I honestly felt that my grandparents felt like that about me, they loved me unconditionally so I was lucky in that respect. Guess what? Narc stepfather hated it (what a surprise!) and used to take the piss out of them/me when we at home saying in a high pitched voice 'oh xxxx can do no wrong' 'oh xxxxx what do you want for tea' etc etc. He was jealous of the relationship, I understand that. But what a prick eh? He was literally going in about it a couple of months ago, even though my gran died a decade ago!

That thread can be summed up for me by my feeling of not understanding when people talked about loving going home. I thought it was an abstract idea, like a book or a film happy ending. Home was a place of uncertainty and precarious moods, why would you be happy to go there?

I spent so much time by myself, hidden away, and then went out as soon as it was acceptable.

Thanks for responses above. The discussion about unconditional love has gone through me like a knife. i never knew what it was to have parents who loved me unconditionally. Home was a bleak, depressing place, and I felt very lonely much of the time.
I wanted to ask about counselling and experiences others may have had. My counsellor never interprets other people's behaviour or gives me any insights, she focuses only on me and my reactions and feelings. I would like some sort of insight into the behaviour and actions of others.but some of us feel that huge loss everytime we are faced with the disappointing reality and realising the idealistic expectations of true love is just in our heads. The death of that expectation was the hardest part for me.
I also feel completely depressed after seeing her the other day. She wants me to focus on how my childhood made me feel, which is fine, but it just leaves me feeling awful. No tools for building a more positive future, or resources, just digging around in misery. I am wondering if it's doing more harm than good.

but some of us feel that huge loss everytime we are faced with the disappointing reality and realising the idealistic expectations of true love is just in our heads. The death of that expectation was the hardest part for me.

Yes

Sorry copy and paste fail!