But we took you to Stately Homes" August 2019 onwards thread

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It's August 2019, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018 - May 2019

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

How are you feeling today jam? It sounds like you had a shock. Do you feel you might need any support with other aspects of your childhood experiences?

Sorry, just realised you’re seeing a therapist. Is your next session soon?

Hey hero, thanks for asking after me. I'm feeling vindicated. It's the best word for this.

Realising I was abandoned to get myself through my bullying yesterday has helped. My mother's lack of support has left me vulnerable to more bullying, gave me with skewed expectations, no boundaries. Not bad for 24 hours work .

Feeling sad and bereft. My inner mother is a bit new to the role and appears to have wandered off x

A week on Thursday for my next session. Hope you don't mind if I hang out here meantime? X

You are always welcome here, Jamdhanihash 🙂

You are very welcome here @jamdhanihash 🤗

I somehow missed your post about therapy. Is that something you started doing recently, or have you been going for a while?

Lot of work done there jam. Do you write things down? I’m trying to put pen to paper at the moment but not getting anywhere. I know it would be useful for me but can’t seem to get started.
If you’re making some big connections it might be good though, might help with your ‘security’ seeing it in black and white.

When I read back what you wrote it made me think of those awful glass floors over heights. There’s one in China, I think, that gives the illusion of shattering so the person on it thinks it’s broken.

I'm an emotional orphan. My mum is a narc and her dad is her enabler. I'm a high-achieving mess with a divorce and few friends left. I'm grieving hard but can't cry. I've been in therapy for a few months. Coming to terms with not being loved properly is hard, but it is quite obviously the root of so many of my problems. I'm just a bit alone. My partner is wonderful but he's only one person. My sister is in denial about her own damage but recognises how and why I am damaged. I miss my old superficial-denial-imagefocussed life but I don't miss the person I was. I am nicer now, I think.

jamdhanihash I think those feelings of loneliness are very common amongst survivors of traumatic childhoods. It’s difficult to connect with people, when most of them just don’t understand what you’ve been through.

I’m lucky in a way in that my husband was also raised by a narcissist, so he totally gets it. But he’s also autistic, which in his case means that whenever I try to talk about things, he’ll cut me off to talk about his own experiences 🙃 It just means I get a double dose of misery whenever I try to talk about something that’s on my mind. He’s been trying very hard to break this habit after I pointed out to him that this really wasn’t helpful 😄

Ah cat that must be hard for you. Good he gets it though, it's worth a lot

my first appointment with my therapist went well 😊 I really like her, she seems like just the right kind of person, someone I can trust and respect and who feels senior to me in a good way.
I have spent so much time lost in thought since the appointment, although at first there was a certain amount of 'cringe' at having unloaded all that stuff.
I made another appointment for a couple of weeks time and I feel optimistic about it 😊

Glad to hear it went well Ulterego.

This has probably been covered on here before but I'm looking for some advice.

I'm not going to go into the whole backstory. I've talked about it in the past, perhaps under a different name. I am LC with both parents (divorced) - almost NC with one. There is already a family member who is completely NC with them, which surely suggests there are grounds for my position.

I have been trying to maintain a relationship with other family members because I value those relationships. I have tried not to involve them. However, every now and again the subject comes up and I feel attacked for my stance. I know I have good reasons for being LC. The only reason I am not completely NC is to keep people happy. Their view is I should just move on for the sake of the family. I spent many, many years trying to make everyone happy by just forgiving and forgetting and it only made me more damaged.

Last weekend there was one of these incidents and there has been a lot of fall out.

Have other people had experience of successfully dealing with maintaining relationships with people who don't understand you? I feel like they are blaming me. I had years of being treated badly and blamed by my parents. I just don't need it anymore.

Unsurprisingly,
You say that you value the relationships with these people, but you also say that these people don't understand you, so it seems like this is a situation where you have tried to understand and value these people but they have not tried to understand and value you?

You are bending yourself out of shape/compromising yourself to keep them happy, they are not meeting you halfway and making any compromises, they are trying to make you even more bent out of shape.
They think that your highest priority should be the integrity of the family, individual freedom of thought and happiness has to be sacrificed for the integrity of the family, everything they do is pushing towards this goal of enforcing their priorities upon, you every inch that you give they will try and take another several feet.
You are trying to compromise, they want to conquer.

That is what occurs to me after my reading of your post.

further, I would say the reason that they attack you is because they experience your stance as an attack on thier beliefs/values/priorities.

"I have been trying to maintain a relationship with other family members because I value those relationships. I have tried not to involve them. However, every now and again the subject comes up and I feel attacked for my stance. I know I have good reasons for being LC. The only reason I am not completely NC is to keep people happy. Their view is I should just move on for the sake of the family. I spent many, many years trying to make everyone happy by just forgiving and forgetting and it only made me more damaged".

It sounds like you're been got at by what are known as the "flying monkeys" and these people certainly can damage further. These are people, often easily led and oh so easily fooled by the toxic person to do their dirty work for them. These flying monkeys have no interest in hearing your side of things so their opinion should be ignored.

Would you have tolerated this from a friend?. No.

Do not use that old chestnut "keeping other people happy" either as your sole reason either to have a no contact position. Its really no reason at all and why are you subsuming your happiness because of them at all?.Human rights for a domestic abuse victim are virtually non-existent in the mind and heart of Enablers — people who will do or say anything it takes to ensure the Abusers needs are met and that they themselves never have to go without or suffer being targeted themselves.

That's a fab analysis attilla. I need to work out what DSis's role is in our family.

ulter sounds like you've found a good one, the healing is a very weird feeling.

unsurprising you don't owe them an explanation or your time. They need to butt out

Unsurprisingly, my DSis tried for years to "be Switzerland" even though she'd had the worst treatment of the four of us siblings. She did it originally, I think, because she was by far the youngest and it was the only family she had and felt she had no other choice. Later, it was because she hoped her two little ones might benefit from having some semblance of an extended family. You know, kindly grandparents, aunties and uncles and cousins who would give them a wider sense of belonging.

It hasn't worked out, sadly. She's very angry right now. My Dad's recent death has brought sibling rivalry sharply to the fore (my middle sister is currently relentlessly engaged in "performance daughtering" - yes, I know there no such word as "daughtering" but I'm sure you get the picture). It's straining everything at a time when feelings are raw to begin with anyway.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that only strong healthy relationships can withstand damaging fallouts. Sibling relationships in families such as ours were fractured to start with. They were shaped to be that way, quite intentionally. Divide and conquer should be our family motto. Possibly it should have been the same in yours.

You can either keep trying to push the boulder up the mountain and trying, but failing, to please everyone, or you can accept that it just isn't worth your time, care or energy. It sounds to me as though you have done everything you can, and more, but it's just causing you anguish because once again, you are getting no reciprocation from your family. It really is OK to stop and let go now.

Thanks for your thoughts. It's a complicated situation. They are younger than me and don't have children of their own. They have little knowledge of what happened in the past and whilst they have seen some of the behaviours, I have kept a lot of it from them to protect them. I think they are simply naive and well intentioned rather than knowing enablers. They have very different life experiences from me.

I do want my DC to have a relationship with them. Most of the time, the issues with other family members are not spoken about. I think the answer is for me to be clear it's not up for discussion.

Unsurprisingly, of course you must do what you feel best, and I wish you only the best.

I sincerely hope I am wrong - and it is none of my business anyway - but I've only ever seen this said in relation to a particular situation within a family:

Their view is I should just move on for the sake of the family

A great and grievous wrong has been done to you at some time in the past. The only feelings that matter, therefore, are yours and yours alone. For your own sake, please do not feel any decent or reasonable person would expect you to do anything other than take good care of yourself. It is perfectly OK to put yourself first. 💐

Hello
Is there a fb page or any other online resource other than mn for this type of thing
My situation is something I don’t. Want to discuss in a ‘public’ place but I need help and support

Because the narcissist people I’m nc with as of recently are trying to sabotage me

Hi 99problems ( excellent username) on the first page of this thread there is an offer of more privacy if you pm Attila or toomuchtooold

Sorry to hear you’re getting attacked. It’s depressing to remember how vigilant you might have to be. Hope you’re able to get some support.

Glad to hear your session got off to a positive start ulterego. It’s can pretty draining, but it’s not nearly as exhausting as carrying all that stuff inside you. You might be surprised at some of the stuff that bubbles up over the coming days. Look after yourself.

thank you Hero 😊
My therapist gave me a couple of assignments to work on before the next appointment and I have had some insights as I worked on them.