But we took you to Stately Homes" August 2019 onwards thread

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It's August 2019, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
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December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018 - May 2019

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

@Ulterego I work in a gp surgery; you are not the only patient to lose their rag and put the phone down so don't worry about it 😂. I don't know about the area you live in but generally speaking the pre bookable appointments are usually a few weeks in advance but what happens is the majority of the appointments are embargoed, meaning they are opened up every morning to be booked in to. Don't worry about what they said about the gp deciding whether you warrant an appointment, that's just telephone triage (basically the admin staff aren't allowed to book people in so the doctor does a call and then decides what's appropriate. You will get an appointment I'm sure, I think you should check if they open them up at 8am each day. As for meds, I see what you are saying but the mirtazapine was amazing at helping me sleep and taking the edge of my anxiety. To have therapy you really need to be in the right 'place' to tackle it so if you are feeling all to pieces I think it's important you tackle it. (I sound like a drug pusher😂)x

If you start your session by saying that ulter you’ll be off to a roaring start. A good therapist would be delighted with that as an opening. You’re immediately identifying the things you’re longing for.

Incidentally the therapist will also discuss with you your feelings about medication.

It sounds very frustrating for you that you made a step towards the GP but felt rebuffed, it’s hard not to feel it’s personal when you’re doing something difficult. Keep going with it.

thanks Marmaduke😊 the receptionist would have just rolled her eyes rather than taking it personally I hope.
I'm reluctant to say this because I respect the people on this thread and it might be frowned upon.... I use cannabis to help me sleep at night, I know it causes issues with some people but I am a stoner of long-standing and I know where I am with it.
(I would like to say that I live alone and I'm very private and discreet about it)
I'm not sure if adding ssris into the mix would be a good thing.
What you said about the roaring start is very helpful Hero, I do feel as if I have a pretty good amount of insight but I need to be 'contained and held' by a professional that I can look up to

I sincerely hope nobody here will judge anyone else for the choices they make, unless those choices are negatively impacting someone else.

I think you might need to meet a few therapists to get the right relationship. Don’t feel you need to please anyone but yourself.

No judgement here, Ulterego. We all do whatever we do to get through tough times. 💐

ulterego

If you do try phoning the surgery again at 3.00 I hope you get a bit further along with them.

When I rang up my GP surgery recently (not urgent but would like to have had a discussion) they told me that it was a two week wait for appointment and if you wanted to see one of the female GPs it would be a three week wait!. I use pushdoctor now.

Small wonder the nearest hospital to me that has a general practice within it is rammed. Those people have probably been told very similar to me.

I’m so sorry to hear you are struggling @Ulterego

I’ve considered medication in the past, but decided not to go down that road as I don’t think that, for me, it would solve anything. But we’re all different, so if you think you’d like to try it definitely explore it with your GP (if you can get an appointment 😡)

In the meantime, I can recommend CBD oil, which you can buy online and in Holland & Barrett’s. I was highly sceptical of it at first, but it’s brilliant for taking the edge off stress and anxiety. Seriously, I can’t recommend it highly enough. It starts working pretty fast (within an hour or so) which means you can just take it when you need it, rather than all the time.

The oil tastes pretty foul, but worth it in my opinion! Don’t get the capsules, unless you plan to take this long term, as those take longer to get to work.

This is the one I use. Half price at the moment

www.hollandandbarrett.com/shop/product/jacob-hooy-cbd-oil-2-75-60008899

Oh, I just read that you’re a cannabis user! I’m Dutch, so absolutely no judgement here 😁

You may still find CBD oil useful, as it’s basically a very concentrated form of the relaxing chemicals you get in cannabis.

I’ve just been having a look for a few ideas for ulterego to think about in terms of self-therapy. One of the interesting things I dug up is the idea of the Genogram. You make a family tree to examine where you fit it, what traits might occur and patterns emerge. It’s very well described in ‘How to Stay Sane’ by Phillipa Perry/The School of Life. There are quite a few ideas about how to reflect and develop insight.
She also recommends a book called ‘You’re In Charge: A Guide to Becoming Your Own Therapist’
There’s also the excellent ‘Couch Fiction’ which explains how psychotherapy works and what to expect.

I do believe though that forming a good relationship with a therapist can be incredibly healing for people who have lacked a significant nurturing bond in their life.

Being held in empathy and positive regard, and having your feelings acknowledged and validated can provide some solace and healing.

@Ulterego no judgement from me lol I had many happy evenings smoking dope in my younger years. I'd do it now but i am scared I would become so unmotivated I wouldn't bother going to work and stuff 😂. It's part of my retirement plans tho for sure 😀
Keep talking on here and we will all be here to listen. You don't need a parent now but you do need support and validation of your feelings. Ive just had a proper 'moment' when I was listening to 'children of the self absorbed'. It's just sunk in that we have just accepted a certain way of 'being' and that way has been to pander to the needs of an adult toddler. I honestly always thought that it was my job to behave in a way that kept my parents happy, and I didn't question it, but I've literally just realised that that in itself is fucked up. These little realisations help move further up that hill and over the horizon from the selfish bastards!

Ulterego I am on ADs and have seen several therapists in the past.

Despite being on ADs, which do take the edge off, I sometimes feel I would like to take a tablet that would just get rid of all the feeling, but that's because my reaction is always to run away from things.

I'm moving on to my third type of medication. I have certainly seen improvement but I also think I've had side effects, hence the switches. It does take a while for things to kick in and settle down. Having said that, just starting on them did feel like I was taking a positive step. It's relatively new for me and I only started medication in the last year after many years of suffering on and off with anxiety and depression. I wasn't even at my lowest point when I started on medication, however I felt I wanted to get a hold on things for the sake of my DC, who weren't around at my low points in the past.

When I have had more psychoanalytical therapy in the past I have found it very beneficial in terms of having someone actually listen to me talking about my childhood and believing me and showing concern about what had happened to me. Following that, though, I felt I needed strategies to cope with everyday life and had some bad experiences trying to find a suitable therapist at a later stage.

I would like to have CBT but I'm struggling to get referred to a therapist and am simply having to use online therapy provided by my local trust.

In the short term, while you are looking into medication or talking therapies, would you consider alternative therapies such as reflexology, massage or reiki? Even if you don't believe in the health benefits, it can be very nurturing and relaxing and provide some short term relief.

My mum is a covert narcissist and I'm in counselling. Today a colleague said to me that she believed intervening with the school or parents when kids are being bullied can make things worse. My DD is 5 and I would rip the world down if she were being bullied. I was also bullied several times as a kid. My mum never once intervened and today I remembered why: she said it would make it worse. Just feeling very triggered and alone. But do tell me please if my mum was right never to intervene when I was bullied. Thanks and hope that made sense.

Attila, thankyou, I didnt phone them because as it happens I was able to book an appt with a local therapist tomorrow,

Crazzzy, I did try vaping some CBD only weed but didnt feel much effect, I still have some though so I'll maybe persevere with it, I've not tried the orally administered version and given that edible THC is quite different to inhaled THC the same might hold true for CBD?

forming a good relationship with a therapist can be incredibly healing for people who have lacked a significant nurturing bond in their life
that really does feel 'nail on the head' Hero, I have lacked that bond, (as have so many others) thank you for your suggestions, and recommendations, have downloaded a sample and will look into the Genogram idea
i am scared I would become so unmotivated I wouldn't bother going to work and stuff
I hear you Marmaduke, I keep it to a small amount late night only, I've never been one for daytime intoxication!
I have found it very beneficial in terms of having someone actually listen to me talking about my childhood and believing me and showing concern about what had happened to me
Unsurprisinglysurprising, I really do want that too!! You mentioned bad experiences looking for a therapist and I can see that as a damaged person it's difficult to find the right people to help you (I can really see now that I've been attracted to predatory abusive men all my life)

Thanks for all the insights and sharing of experiences

Of course not jamdhanihash. It’s our role as parents to help our children to feel safe. That doesn’t mean intervening and managing every aspect of their lives, but it does mean making sure that we support them to be secure.
Children who are left to deal with situations they can’t manage will adapt to them in often dangerous ways - believing that they deserve what’s happening, or that that adults don’t really have their interests at heart.

You’re feeling all the feelings from your childhood when you felt unsafe.

Ulterego my first therapist was good. I saw her on the NHS and then privately but then felt I could cope on my own. Later, I got seriously depressed again. I wanted to go back to her but she couldn't fit me in. I struggled to find someone I could fit around work, which at the time seemed such an important thing. I went with someone my original therapist suggested in the end. I wasn't sure about her from the start but went with her purely because I was desperate and the location and time she could do fitted well around my work. Without going into too many details she was just a bad therapist. She made me feel bad, her whole approach was bad. She was so unprofessional. I felt at the time it was better than nothing but she did a lot of damage. I avoided therapy after that but after a trauma found someone who was helpful in some ways, but I never felt the same relief as I had first time round.

One word of warning. Talking about it all can drag up a lot of emotions and it's not always positive. My second therapist handled it very badly. Just make sure you are comfortable with the therapist.

Unsurprisinglysurprising, it sounds as if in hindsight your gut instinct was right it's just very unfortunate that you were under pressure and not able to listen to your gut, that's quite an alarming and sobering thought .... I can see that a bad therapist could do a lot of damage😕

I spoke to the therapist on the phone today and she pointed out that the first session is a trial session for us to get to know each other and see whether we think we can work together, so I feel that seems promising but I will be sure to listen to my gut instinct.

Thank you Herocomplex

@Ulterego just remember that when it comes to therapy, you are the one who is in control. If things don’t work out with this therapist, you can always try another, but hopefully this one will be a good match for you 🙂

I’m due to have my first appointment with a therapist Monday next week, so it sounds like we’re starting this process at the same time. We can swap notes!

I know it’s absolutely the right thing to do for me, but I’m still feeling fairly apprehensive. Fingers crossed it works out well for both of us

@jamdhanihash I don’t know what the right thing to do is when dealing with bullying, but I do know that it’s not right for a parent to make their kids feel like they’re not supported.

I’m so sorry you’re reliving all those feelings now. If you want to talk some more, we’re all here for you. You are not alone

@Ulterego good luck for today. Hope the therapist is a good fit for you. It's definitely the case that it may stir up some uncomfortable feelings so just be prepared for that. Think of it as lancing the boil though. Xx

@jamdhanihash I think the inaction of your parents when faced with the bullying situation was absolutely wrong. Would you behave like that with your own kids? That's what I use as a measure these days when I'm trying to make sense of cranky stuff that happened when I was younger. X

Crazzzy, I look forward to swapping notes 😁 and thank you Marmaduke, I didn't sleep very much my mind was whirring all night but I am looking forward to the first session.

Jamdh, it might arguably be the case that direct intervention isn't the best way forward with bullying but that can only be ascertained by paying attention to what's going on and listening to the child discussing it with the teachers etc, ie taking it seriously!
Dismissing it and not doing anything at all sends a message to the child that they are not worthy of any time or effort😔

Thank you cat and marmaduke