But we took you to Stately Homes" August 2019 onwards thread

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It's August 2019, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018 - May 2019

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

@Ulterego you're not wrong there 😂. Don't worry, I'm running alright ! X

I feel like my mum is a low-level stalker too
Giroiux, in my case I suspect he is worried that I will speak out and ruin his good name, so it's a case of keeping an eye on me, 'keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer' kind of thing, he was only ever pretending all along
if only I had recognised the earlier red flags I could have avoided 20 years of feeling guilty for not wanting to be around him 🤦‍♀️

I'm just posting to get some thoughts out.
I'm in on my own this evening. I was happily doing a bit of crafting and then an old 70s song came on and it made me think of my mum when she was young and before she had children. It made me feel really upset. She often says and acts like she sacraficed so much for us (me and my sister). I know being a parent is hard I'm not disputing that.

But I feel like what happened a lot of the time was she sacraficed things to keep my dad happy. They're still together despite her saying she's not that happy. She avoids confrontation and he's pretty selfish so she did, and still does do, whatever to keep him happy. So will sort of passive aggressively do the things he wants. But she also sulks and does silent treatment. I have anxiety and I see loads in her too. I don't know if she thought keeping them together was best for us or just buried her head in the sand.

Anyway so the song made me think of her as a young woman at the start of her marriage. What she wanted for her life and how having children has been a big part of it (although she has a career too) and now I'm an adult and bitching about my childhood. And what have all these choices to avoid confrontation and keep my dad happy been for? He's not even that happy!

I don't know if this makes sense without a bigger back story? I know some of the posts where people just say what's happening for thrm have really helped me. So maybe me blabbering might contribute to that.

Moving home and about five mins internet a day at the mo, so sorry for your loss @SingingLily

The therapy appointment has opened a massive can of worms and I'm really struggling.

I rarely post on stately homes even though it's a fitting place for me but it's really the only place that I can let out a huge aaaarrrgghhh tonight. I'm a regular poster but only use this name when talking about my mental health.

I love parts of my family but the toxicity runs so deep it fucks up all of what should be good relationship and at the end of it, I'm always the one to blame. I feel like a lonely teenager again.

@BuildBuildings yeah I see what you are saying. And it does help me you saying this. I get this too, pangs of emotion; feeling bad when something triggers a good memory. I felt a bit like that yesterday when I saw a blackberry bush and I was thinking of happy memories of us going blackberrying and making crumbles. I think the reason you and I feel shitty about stuff like this is because part of our upbringing involved taking on responsibility for our parents feelings, rather than the other way round. You are allowed your feelings, good and bad. If it's any help, I just keep reminding myself that I am not responsible for my mothers feelings and the current situation she is in is a result of her choices, not mine. At the top of the thread there's a few quotes from 'toxic parents' and one says something along the lines of, 'yes you did do nice things for me etc but it doesn't make up for (x,y,z)'.I tell myself this one when I feel these pangs and it helps. Xx

I think it’s living in a state of vigilance BuildBuildings, that makes it so melancholy to remember being a child. When a parent is martyr-ing themselves constantly and you’re aware of it you just feel so bloody guilty all the time.
I used to feel sad that my parents never seemed to relax and have fun, they did loads of things but I never felt they really enjoyed much.
It’s a gloomy feeling.

@Herocomplex yes! Mine used to often seem to say 'why would you want to do that?' like they couldnt understand how people could get pleasure out of certain things. They don't seem to actually know how to be happy, all of their pleasure is gained from validation and praise from others, and if something doesn't involve that then they don't know what to make if it. Yes it's gloomy. X

SimplySteveRedux Unsurprisinglysurprisingsorry to hear you are both going through a tough time.

Buildingbuildings I recognise those feelings of sadness. When I think of my mother I often think of the shit life she’s lead, the tension she no doubt experienced when I was growing up and the fact that till this day she is still married to a complete and utter bully.

But I also remind myself that all this is down to the choices she made. It’s nothing to do with me. I guess I’m “lucky” in that the one thing she taught me when I was growing up was that I was responsible for my own happiness. She used to say to me that no-one else is going to stand up for you when you grow up, so you best learn how to do this yourself.

It was a little bit ironic, as she seemed to be saying this without any reference to the situation I found myself in at home, where sticking up for myself was very much not appreciated 🤦🏻‍♀️ But anyway, whenever I feel sad about her, I remind myself of that. She chose this life, thinking it would make her happiest. I feel sad about that on a human level, but ultimately it was HER choice and HER responsibility, not mine.

You’re right CrazzzyCat about the hypocrisy taking its toll. I’ve said before I used to long for a guidebook of all the things that were right and wrong, so I wasn’t so uncertain if what they wanted. To just know where to put myself in the world.

I'm feeling especially fragile right now and wondering about going to my GP to ask for some medication, but worried that will lead me down various stressful rabbit holes trying to find what works and what doesnt.
Does anyone have any relevant experience please?

Hiya @Ulterego sorry you are feeling struggling xx what is it specifically you are wanting advice about? Types of meds etc? I've been on a few over the years so can offer my opinion for what it's worth? What's your specific problems/concerns? X

Ulterego that’s really hard for you, are you anxious or low mood, or something else? No direct advice, I had AD’s thirty years ago, so no useful input sadly.
I would say everyone I know who’s on meds now is much better with them than without. Xx

thank you Marmaduke and Hero😊
for a quick recap I have an ongoing situation with my children which is very upsetting and difficult to cope with, parent's response to this (cold cruel and unsympathetic) made me see them for what they really are and I am furious, on top of being devastated about the other issues.
I had a couple of meltdowns over minor things, I feel frequently on the verge of hysteria and my eczema has flared up really badly 🔥which adds to the sense of rising panic.
I know that this is my body telling me I need to get proper help, I'm going to phone my GP and ask for some medication (for my mind and for the eczema) and I'm researching local therapists.
I would really like to hear about other people's experiences of the different medications, could it be that there is a 'normal' version of me that's never been allowed to express itself if only I could find the right medication?

That’s a good question ulter, do you know what that normal might look like for you?

Therapy and analysis would suggest that there is potential for a fully realised self in all humans.

Medication can calm the bumps and give you an opportunity to find more of an equilibrium. Talking therapies with a good practitioner can give you insight into your behaviours, which can be incredibly liberating.

I think you sound a bit under siege at the moment? When things are coming at you just be very conscious that your initial feelings might come from a place of fear and panic. Just pause, and reflect a bit. I bet inside you there’s a calmer voice, something that’s offering you more of your ‘self’. You just need some amplification for it.

Hero I think my concern is that whilst medication can suit the bumps the process of finding the right medication would be overly bumpy and just exacerbate things, but it might be that I'm just irrationally anti medication!
I do like the idea of proper therapy, I feel that it's not fair on the people around me to just let myself fall apart, I'm already dysfunctional to the extent that my weirdness is a burden to other people.
But in your experience, people that you know have found peace through taking medication?

I think one of the things that helps is going to the doctor, saying ‘this is how I feel’ and the doctor saying offering some opportunities to make some changes. It’s like a first step to getting a bit more control, and feeling that things might improve.

I can’t help with the meds, I know people who’ve had different things and made changes like giving up drinking, taking up exercise, getting more sleep, changing their eating habits etc.

I understand your reluctance. I’m also sorry that you have no choice over having to keep it together, that really doesn’t help, it’s a lot of pressure.
It doesn’t mean you have to take medication if you go along and have a chat about your options.

Ulterego, I'm sorry you are going through such a rough patch. I'm fairly resistant to taking medication myself (even paracetamol) but was lucky to have a GP I trusted enough to be able to overcome my nervousness and take his advice.

There is much good advice in what Hero says. Would you feel able to book, say, a double appointment with your GP - or one you trusted - so that you don't feel rushed about saying what troubles you? I find it helped to make a list beforehand of how my worries were manifesting themselves - eczema, insomnia, lack of concentration, and so on - and take it in with me.

You still have the final say about whether you follow your GP's advice or not, of course, but it might also open up other avenues for you including a referral for therapy. You can only try.

thanks Hero😊 what you say is good sense, I think just taking the step of going to the doctor and saying 'I'm not coping what are my options' would put me on a better road, if I could just get some prescriptions for my skin and my mind I can then decide whether or not I need to use them.

Oops, crossposted with Hero!

thank you Singinglily 😊, may I ask, did it take you long to find the right medication?

I'd say the fact you recognise all of this is a positive thing. I have only just started with therapy but I am all for it, it's already making me question things and gain an understanding of why I feel the way I do. Again, I am all for medication, it can be helpful in taking the edge off difficult feelings. So if there's an underlying issue affecting you then the meds will calm the bumps, as hero says. I take sertraline, it's an antidepressant with anti anxiety properties. I have as required diazepam but tbh I don't really bother what it as I get a bit of rebound anxiety after it wears off but I do find it useful in extreme circumstances. Have you got a good GP? The only thing I'd caution you about in terms of my experiences with meds is that very offers it takes at least 2weeks to get any real benefit and you can feel a bit worse before you feel better. But that's just my experiences. Years ago I was on mirtazapine and that was excellent when I was struggling to sleep and eat because of the anxiety and depressive feelings. The only reason I don't take it now is because it didn't work the second time I was put in it but apparently your brain chemistry can change so 🤷‍♀️. If you are struggling with sleep and appetite I'd definitely recommend it tho x

thanks for sharing your experience Marmaduke, I suspect the two week wait would be problematic, in that time I would decide I probably didn't need them after all and I would start researching the possible negative effects🤦‍♀️
It didn't go well with the GP, I phoned the surgery after a few minutes on hold I spoke to someone who explained that the only available appointments were 3 to 4 weeks time I'm or if it was urgent I can phone back at 3 p.m, following that my GP will call me back and decide if I am eligible for an urgent appointment.
I know this is really bad but I swore and slammed the phone down.
I feel as if I've turned into a feral cat.
I have just emailed a psychotherapist who is near to me.
Thank you stately home people🙏

I feel that was I want from therapy is a person who can in good faith sit in the 'sensible grown up' chair, someone who I can respect and trust to take me seriously.

That's awful, Ulterego. It must feel like having to tackle the sheer face of a cliff just to signal that you need some help. What does "urgent" mean anyway in the context of a GP consultation? Anything physically urgent like a heart attack or a stroke would be dealt with by ringing 999 and asking for an ambulance. This is an MH issue. It's urgent to you. It's a crisis to you.

You really probably don't feel like doing this but I would say try again at 3pm. Let the doctor decide. You might be surprised. Just try to stick to standard English this time and not show off your bilingual skills in Anglo-Saxon 🙂

The medication I took was specific because of a longstanding health issue that would have complicated things but my GP took that into account when prescribing. As others have said, expect it to take a fortnight for the meds to kick in. It doesn't solve your problems - you know that - but it does allow you to sleep and eat and that, in turn, gives you the stamina you need to cope. I only took it for three months because I'd got past crisis point and felt better able to cope, but it's different for everyone.

Deep breaths, Ulterego. I hope you feel able to try again.