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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is it my business? How to help man being pushed out of baby's life.

284 replies

ForfarFourFifeFive · 19/08/2019 12:10

I'm going to be deliberately vague for obvious reasons.
I'm writing on behalf of a small group of concerned people who want what is best for the baby, and who we see as a wronged, innocent man.

A female acquaintance/associate/family member had a baby several months ago. Her first baby, and her last chance at motherhood (age reasons). She is not with the father. She has told people that he is not interested. The story didn't add up from various people we know who have all mentioned conflicting info that she/some members of her family give. One of us vaguely knows the father (small town) and found him on Fb. From looking at his fb, he is indeed desperate to see the baby, and is devastated. As are his parents. He has sought legal action and things seem to be progressing but he has still not been allowed to see his child. We don't think he knows where his child is, as we know the mother has moved to a relative's home. Of course, there is a remote chance this is justified and he's been violent, but we really don't believe this is the case, and knowing the mother, she grabbed a chance to get pregnant, and never planned to involve the sperm-donor. We believe he did not know he was being used as a sperm donor. Lesson learned for him and all our sons.

I am sad for him, and we are wondering if it is our place to reach out to him and be supportive, even if there is nothing we can do. I want him to know he has people on his side, even though we are related/acquainted to the mother/mother's family.
One reason we don't believe he was violent or that her actions are justified is because she finally invited him to the town she is hiding in, only to set him up on a wild goose chase as once he had paid for his transport and accommodation, a day before he was set to go, she told him she wasn't there. Being a small town, people are talking, and NO ONE believes he has it in him to be violent. We accept we can't always know people though, of course. But he seems a nice, meek, mild-mannered man. Our experience of the woman is that she manipulated things and only ever wanted a baby to herself.
Now, the crux. When the courts finally grant him access, the mother has put a huge obstacle in the way by making plans to move hundreds of miles away, necessitating either a flight or a ferry ride as well as a long car journey meaning it will be very difficult for the father to see his child - if the courts allow him every other weekend, it is feasibly financially impossible for him to make it to see his child this often, based solely on the mother's actions to deliberately distance themselves from him geographically. She is stating she's moving for quality of life. No one believes this. She is moving to keep that baby to herself.

Can the courts insist she not move? She has set it up to look like she has been living there since the baby was a newborn, but we know she has not been up there except for a few trips. (Her family have a holiday home there, and a spare home in her hometown, so she has options.)

Sorry it's long. I feel so sad for him, his family, and for some men in general who have this happen to them, and don't feel we should be silent when women behave like this.

OP posts:
Branleuse · 19/08/2019 12:56

In life, its really handy to know the difference between your problems and someone else's problems.
Even if it makes you sad, it doesn't make it your problem or your business

AudacityOfHope · 19/08/2019 12:57

Jesus Christ, I live in a small town and it's lovely, but it's cursed by groups of people like you, who think everyone's business is theirs purely due to proximity.

Back off, you all sound a little bit unhinged over this.

DioneTheDiabolist · 19/08/2019 12:59

You dont know if he is a wronged party, you are projecting a whole load of your own shit onto this situation.

GlitchStitch · 19/08/2019 12:59

Keep your beak out. He's going through legal channels so if it's deemed to be in the baby's interest he'll get contact and can ask for photos etc then.

Thingsdogetbetter · 19/08/2019 12:59

And what exactly are you going to say to this man ONE of you knows. "We've tracked you down on fb and read all your posts, asked around your home town to check up on you, talked about you with our group of other people who never meet you and have decided the mother is an evil bitch and you are a saint so would like to offer you our collective support?" He's going to think you're all nuts!

Even if this narrative is really what you have created from second-hand information, speculation and fb posts it's STILL none of your business! And what happens if it's the opposite? You contact an abuser to give your support? Doesn't the fact he was convinced that FWB was actually a relationship not raise red flags? The mother knows him far far better than you, or his neighbours! And you seem to think she is a devil bitch from hell so anything she says must be a manipulative lie!

This 'group' has worked itself into a collective frenzied mob. You are all bizarrely invested in this. It'll be pitchforks next.

ShanghaiDiva · 19/08/2019 13:00

This feels like a special case, where we SHOULD stand up for the wronged party and not be silent to someone who thinks it's ok to treat someone like that.

I think behaving in this way, will almost guarantee that she moves away. As others have said you don't have all (any?) of the facts and it's none of your business.

ForfarFourFifeFive · 19/08/2019 13:00

arms, all we can do is tell her how we feel - we have all so far remained silent, which we all feel guilty about. I accept there is not a lot we can legally do, but it feels like the right thing to do to tell her we don't support what she is doing. We all left it in case she had pND or valid reasons, but we don't believe she does - either pnd nor valid reasons, time is cracking on and it has been many months - baby is nearly walking, man still not been allowed access. I can't force the courts to move faster (how does it take so long?!) but I do feel as a society we should not automatically side with the woman here - exactly as 999 says, people are just siding with her because she's the mother, and exactly as BFL says, it's just tough luck for him. That to me is wrong.

OP posts:
ForfarFourFifeFive · 19/08/2019 13:02

I am related to her, sad to say, I am not just some random from the village, and I am ashamed of her, ashamed of how people are viewing us for supposedly supporting her in doing this, its causing huge problems. Others in our group know him, it IS a small town/village, people are nice, people care, and yet this man is being treated like shit, and we are supposed to support her?

OP posts:
AudacityOfHope · 19/08/2019 13:02

Oh my god just spotted your username; if it's geographically accurate then you live near me and are 100% exactly the kind of weirdo local loon I mentioned up thread.

HUZZAH212 · 19/08/2019 13:04

Okay so you and your little concerned party can tell her how you feel, and she can then choose to ignore you all... Problem solved!

ForfarFourFifeFive · 19/08/2019 13:05

things, no - it's too easy to tell someone you want a relationship from them, act like you do, say all the right things. Get pregnant and then dump them. It happens. Doesn't mean she had any reason to treat him like that other than that he was a young mug who fell for her lies.
Why not give ME the benefit of the doubt that I know enough here to judge that? And lets say there absolutely is no threat of violence from him - he just wants access to his baby - what, he still has to suck it up and she gets away with this?

OP posts:
Thesearmsofmine · 19/08/2019 13:06

In telling her you have all been talking about her and how you think she is terrible you will just ensure the move happens sooner rather than later.

I am confused why a man was TTC with a woman who he was in a fairly casual relationship with. I mean if she saw it as FWB then I assume they weren’t living together etc.

PancakeAndKeith · 19/08/2019 13:06

We are 99% certain that there has been no violence or threat of violence.

No one knows what goes on behind closed doors.
There are hundreds of women on here who would tell you that everyone thought their husband was a wonderful man but had no idea how he was treating his family.

Perhaps this man is innocent. I don’t know and neither do you. This is none of your business.

gottagetouttahere · 19/08/2019 13:06

all we can do is tell her how we feel

By all means, feel free. If she ever asks you. However, I very much doubt she gives a shit how you feel, or that you are anywhere near as influential as you seem to imagine, and therefore don't see that ever being the case. So I suggest just getting on with your own life and letting them get on with theirs.

timshelthechoice · 19/08/2019 13:07

You've appointed yourself judge, jury and executioner here, and you and this 'we' group of busybody, stalky, judgey, over-invested freaks. Yes, tell her what you think so she can make a clear decision to get out of this toxic environment, this would definitely sway me if I were swithering around moving!

HaileySherman · 19/08/2019 13:07

It MAY be wrong of her, or she may have very good reasons. You don't think so, but the fact is that you DON'T KNOW. That alone should tell you to stay out of it. Let it be proven out in court. You're not in a position to know the truth of what's going on. You may be surprised at how many seemingly wonderful, kind, caring men are in fact anything but that. Would you be comfortable knowing you contributed to the possible abuse of the woman and child, when he could go through the courts and it would give at least a better chance of the truth being sorted out?

timshelthechoice · 19/08/2019 13:08

Exactly, Audacity, yep, definitely familiar with the area, too.

sue51 · 19/08/2019 13:09

This is making me so glad I stay out of village gossip.

onanothertrain · 19/08/2019 13:10

If this whole story is as you say it is I have sympathy for this dad. However I do agree that you should keep out of it, I can't see how your involvement could possibly help. You are not going to get many on here agreeing with you as he's a man and therefore a dick, she's the mother and can't do any wrong. The law isn't designed to help him rightly or wrongly.

DioneTheDiabolist · 19/08/2019 13:12

And lets say there absolutely is no threat of violence from him
Why? You have no idea if that is true. You dont know that he wasnt violent. You dont know that he didnt steal from her. You dont know that he has no addictions. You dont know that he has never raped her.

You.
Dont.
Know.

The mother knows him and has decided that a life of upheaval would be better than having him in their lives. TBH this manipulation of her friends and family is well dodgy. If he wants to see this child he can through the correct channels.

HUZZAH212 · 19/08/2019 13:12

A young mug who fell for her lies?... You said he's around 30. Is he not aware of how contraception works and babies are made?

PancakeAndKeith · 19/08/2019 13:13

One of us vaguely knows the father (small town) and found him on Fb. From looking at his fb, he is indeed desperate to see the baby, and is devastated. As are his parents.

I take you back to this comment.
You say that one of you vaguely knows him. Yet you profess to know enough to be able to say with increasing assurance that he is a good man and no violent.

Coffeeandchocolate9 · 19/08/2019 13:13

You don't know if what you suspect is fact. This is important, and is the basis of what most of us are saying.

Abusers, narcissists, domestic abusers usually don't advertise. You have NO idea what he or she was like behind closed doors.

He is a grown up who hopefully has his own support network and is capable of doing what he needs to, to get access to his child. You contacting him adds no value and potentially harms mother and baby (If he was abusive as she seems to have said. You have zero proof either way if he was or wasn't, so should take the route of least harm which in this case is keep your beak out).

Yes it is awful when innocent fathers are denied access to their children. If you are compelled towards action try making a donation to a relevant charity or talking gently to the mother to try to persuade her to make the right decisions. For goodness sake please don't contact him or send him photos. It's. Not. Your. Place. To.

Parent999 · 19/08/2019 13:14

You've questioned women's power to make unilateral decisions for their possessions [children] and suggested a man could possibly be the victim.

Expect every single part of your argument to be torn to shreds and discredited with extreme prejudice.

Thingsdogetbetter · 19/08/2019 13:14

I don't think anyone here is saying it's automatic that she's innocent because she's a woman and he's abusive because he's a man. They are saying you really don't know what is going on!

You're picking up pieces of second-hand information and fitting them to a narrative of your choice. You're claiming to be stressed because of it. Stressed ffs! You've hunted down a man most of you don't know on fb and want to reach out to him. You have decided she's wrong and he's right without insider information. Claiming to know how much money he's spent on trying to get access etc. The reasons she got pregnant, why she moved, his understanding of their relationship etc etc. All assumptions.

We're saying you are too invested. That this group has sat in judgement and decided the rights and wrongs without evidence. Whipped yourself up into judge, jury and executioner.

There are organisations that help fathers who have been wronged in the way you think he has. Find a reputable one and lend them your support. Write to your MP. But this witch hunt will not help anyone, least of all the baby.

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