Demise of marriage? Feelings turned by one conversation!

[Freetodowhatiwant]

I don’t really know where to start. I have been with DH for almost 20 years and married for almost 10. We had a lot of fun for the 10 years prior to getting married – travelling and plenty of going out. I’ve been with him since age 25 and am now 45. He is 11 years older but this isn’t an issue, he’s very youthful in many ways. We have two children aged 7 and 4.

Our relationship has many positive aspects – when we have time to hang around together we laugh and share the similar interests. There are no significant domestic issues in terms of housework and cooking. He used to do much more than me pre-kids and now I do probably more as I am at home more (work from home). The house is a bit of a mess but this is because of the kids and we both try our best so that’s not a huge issue even though there is the occasional argument about this I think it's normal.

To my friends who’ve moaned about their partners for other reasons (two have DHs who don’t do anything around the house) I have always said that mine and DH’s relationship is 80% good, not perfect but enough to keep us together.

Herein lies the problem though. The 20% bad has been his anger issues. He had had them from the beginning. Most of the males in his family had the same issues. He often gets angry for no reason. Getting ready in the morning is a particular issue. He will shout and stomp around and if the anger is directed at me can sometimes seriously intimidate me. He has never hit me but he has loomed over me many times and his face and body are terrifying. He’s 6ft and I’m 5.5ft so he has a height and physical presence that can scare me. There have been times this has happened in front of the children and the children and I have all been hugging and waiting until it passes. He’s a mental health professional (I know) so there are times when he has been able to keep this under control for a while (taking St John’s Wort helps) but there have been many times when he is angry and I feel like I am treading on egg shells. Sometimes this has been on a daily basis, particularly for a few hours in the morning, and has ruined a good part of the day. He is always sorry afterwards and he knows he is out of order. I am not perfect of course, but I am just focusing on DH’s anger issues. I am by nature, I think, quite a happy person but when he has one of these angry episodes it really plunges my mood.

Here’s the weirdest thing. In January he had two angry mornings in a row, nothing out of the ordinary, and on the second morning something just clicked inside me and I suddenly thought ‘I cant do this for the rest of my life’. My mood plunged and I entered a low depression from which I didn’t emerge for a couple of months and to be honest it is still bubbling under the surface and although I am carrying on with life as normal I am still quite emotional. This is very very unusual for me as I usually brush things off but it was like all the angry episodes over the 19 years we had been together just built up into one homogenous mass that has eaten away at me.

Whilst I have been thinking about an alternative future it has also given me feelings - unrelated to his anger issues - about whether I want to be with him for another 20+ years. It now just all feels like an awful long time. I have told him all this and we have had a couple of conversations about our future. The thing is since telling him how my feelings have changed for him he has kept an incredibly good check on his moods, not perfect but I am not saying I am either. But my low feelings and doubt about whether I can be with him for the rest of my life haven’t changed though and I find myself trawling the boards here trying to find some solution, researching divorce, researching people who have stayed together and not really knowing wtf to do.

It’s like I am in a quiet crisis, carrying on with day to day activities and life. We are abroad for the summer and he has gone back to the UK to work for a couple of weeks and I haven’t really yet missed him. This upsets me because like I said the 80% that was good meant we had fun together. We are lucky enough to have family to babysit and we can often go out. But the fact is I can’t seem to get over the build up of angry moods and a huge part of me feels the pull of freedom seems more and more attractive. I have emotionally checked out of the relationship and I don't know how to get back or if I want to. I can tell he knows this and he is trying his best but it isn’t making a difference at the moment. The thought however of tearing our family apart is also terrifying. I just don’t know what to do.

If you have got this far, well done! Any thoughts would be amazing.

I don't blame you for feeling how you do. If you want to leave, you could do it.

If you're not sure, would you be open to marriage counselling? It might actually help you leave if that's the right thing.

I'm sure someone wiser than me will be along shortly, but I noticed how often you compare your relationship to a "perfect" one. There is no such thing, a relationship is a state of being between two people who will change from day to day and over time. It will take one or both of you to work at it. Sorry if that's a bit basic but it did jump out at me .

What sort of things does he say when angry?

Thats Simkin yes I have suggested counselling. He has mixed feelings about this, varying from getting angry that I suggested it, not feeling we would find a good counsellor (he works in the industry), to suggesting I have counselling on my own (I found this frustrating as I think one of the things about having it together would be to be able to tell him how I feel in a safe place) and during our last conversation finally accepting we could do it as long as I booked and paid for it (!).

"He often gets angry for no reason. Getting ready in the morning is a particular issue. He will shout and stomp around and if the anger is directed at me can sometimes seriously intimidate me. He has never hit me but he has loomed over me many times and his face and body are terrifying. He’s 6ft and I’m 5.5ft so he has a height and physical presence that can scare me. There have been times this has happened in front of the children and the children and I have all been hugging and waiting until it passes."

That is abuse. That is domestic violence.

I think you need to give him fair and clear warning. At a calm moment (ie not in the morning) bring up his anger, and if he is receptive, tell him.

Really TELL HIM ‘I cant do this for the rest of my life’.

His anger is a choice. He can choose to control himself, or he can choose to lose his family when you remove yourself from the mistreatment.

If you are too afraid of him to do this even in a calm moment? There is your answer.

Thanks Whensa yes I was happy with 80% good but it's just the 20%, since that weird moment in January has loomed bigger. Hmm interesting question about what sort of thing he says when he is angry. I will have to have a think.

Sometimes it's literally for no reason but other times it will be messy house, something being in the way somewhere, the kids being challenging...even me sometimes accidentally being in the way of him in the corridor or somewhere. It's exhausting when we could be having a perfectly fine morning and then he kicks off.

So since you started to withdraw at his angry episode in January has he had them since? Just wondering if he can control them when he has to?

'when you remove yourself and the children from' ...

In the calm moment he does need to hear that he is alienating you and causing distance with his frightening behaviour. In adults, love is conditional. He cannot abuse the people around him and expect an intact family.

Screaming

*That is abuse. That is domestic violence.

I think you need to give him fair and clear warning. At a calm moment (ie not in the morning) bring up his anger, and if he is receptive, tell him.

Really TELL HIM ‘I cant do this for the rest of my life’.

His anger is a choice. He can choose to control himself, or he can choose to lose his family when you remove yourself from the mistreatment.

If you are too afraid of him to do this even in a calm moment? There is your answer*

I totally agree unfortunately. It does feel like domestic violence when it has happened - even though there is no physical violence. And yes I HAVE felt a bit afraid of talking to him about it but in the end we have had the conversation now a couple of times when we have been calm, given that he was initially reluctant when I mentioned couples counselling he didn't want to go so I realised that if I wanted to say the things I wanted to say to him I would have to take a deep breath and do it.

The thing is that if someone really frightens you once, it's very hard to get past that. He did it repeatedly, knowing how you all felt.

And he works in mental health - that makes his behaviour and attitude shocking.

I'm still trying to reconcile someone working in mental health and this statement:

He has mixed feelings about this, varying from getting angry that I suggested it, not feeling we would find a good counsellor (he works in the industry), to suggesting I have counselling on my own (I found this frustrating as I think one of the things about having it together would be to be able to tell him how I feel in a safe place) and during our last conversation finally accepting we could do it as long as I booked and paid for it (!)

Horehoud

So since you started to withdraw at his angry episode in January has he had them since? Just wondering if he can control them when he has to?

Yes he has really been much better with them for the last few months. Maybe not since January as it took me a couple of months to fully tell him that my feelings were low because of him but since I told him. But it hasn't changed my feelings as yet. Which makes me feel like I am almost on the back foot. Because he hasn't had any significant anger outbursts it is now ME who is the bad person thinking negative thoughts about the marriage.

Hollowtalk

The thing is that if someone really frightens you once, it's very hard to get past that. He did it repeatedly, knowing how you all felt this is very much how I feel and has been the only bad thing about our relationship all the way through. I've struggled with having sex with him for quite a while as I find it hard to get over the fact that he makes himself unlikeable to me and yes even though it is rare sometimes does frighten me.

He doesn’t lose his temper - he chooses to use his temper on you and your DC.

He is totally resistant to making amends thru counselling and has ignored your feelings for the last 20 years.

The 20% of bad times seeps into the other 80% of times - because then you are always on high alert and re arranging your behaviour and environment to prevent an eruption.

What was your family / up bringing like?

Don’t teach your DC that they should accommodate, absorb and tolerate abuse.
This will be deeply harming them emotionally.

It is not surprising that you have become exhausted by all of this.

I think you either book and pay for the counselling (and then possibly leave) or just leave. If you can't talk to him openly about all of it, the fear, the sex, etc, there's no point in carrying on. It's not a question of blame - not for you anyway. Just because you didn't tell him about your feelings before doesn't mean he couldn't imagine what being bellowed at by someone physically bigger than you would feel like, or how trying to change your own behaviour to avoid it might feel.

The more I'm typing the more I'm thinking you should just go. But if you think it is possible to have some valuable communication first that might help whatever you decide.

Well first of all, well done for conveying your thoughts so eloquently. It really gives a sense of where you are and how you feel.

I left my emotionally abusive husband when a friend who was also in a similar situation a few years earlier said told me a story about how she very nearly left him about 4 years before she really did leave him. She basically got sucked back with promises of counseling and moderation of the behaviour that was going on. When she finally did leave for good, she said her only regret was that she didn’t leave the first time. ‘I want those 4 years back’ she said. I’ve never forgotten that.

If he’s just put a bandaid on it all, reluctant to do counseling and is just repressing it all, it’s never going to get better. And I’d hazard a guess to say that all these years of this bad 20% has eroded away your love for him. I’m sure you’ll always love him in some way but I think it sounds like the love that a husband and wife should have for each other has long gone. The fact you don’t miss him is evidence of that.

You have your whole life ahead of you. Untold happiness awaits. Definite fear and sadness will remain if you stay.

As someone who has been in your shoes, I wish you the best of luck xx

I think it’s a good sign that he’s actively minding his anger since you spoke with him. It means he is willing and able to change. My DH had anger issues too and after 9yrs of putting up with it, he’s on medication (his anger was due to chemical imbalance...it would get low and he’d be what we call a sour gummy worm). He very rarely gets angry now, has the patience of a Saint..in fact I’m more likely to lose my temper and I’m normal with no anger issues.
Marriage counselling might help...but he’s right it depends on counselor.
I think you may be having a bit of a mid-life crisis too tbh. It’s no coincidence that 45-49 is peak age for women to divorce. You’re twenty years in and think, oh my goodness another twenty years of this and then I’m a pensioner. The road ahead looks more like a tunnel boxing you in. The fact your children are young...and you and DH are slogging through the most busy and most stressful part of life (Youngblood’s children, ageing parents, middle age) is also contributing to the desire to basically jump rails and try another life on for size.
So I do think that you are dealing with more than an angry DH at the moment.

He's a bully. Pure and simple. He gets off on intimidating, verbally abusing, scaring you so that you know your place.

It's a form of fascism dressed up in the robes of male entitlement.
I think you deserve more OP.

He is not emotionally ignorant due to his job - he is avoiding counselling precisely because he knows he will be outed. Be careful now that you are not being manipulated to take on the guilt and blame for separation just because you called it. His actions called it not yours. It sounds intolerable.

I have not heard any of those women 45-49 having “a mid life crisis” regret their decision to leave an abuser or a shit marriage?

For the sake of your kids, I think you know you need to leave (taking them with you of course!), or get him to move out.

He’s been behaving like a dick.

You can do it!

The fact that he was able to control his anger for a while after you spoke to him would piss me off even more tbh. So he can control himself, but he usually chooses not to?! It may not be physical abuse at the moment. I wouldn't be waiting around for that to change.

OP, I think one or two episodes like that would send me running. 'Abusive' is a much-used word, but the pattern of the nasty 20% then the relief when you get back to 80% does sound unhealthy.

A friend had a DH who got nasty when he was drunk, and actually gave up drinking when she gave him an ultimatum, which put the marriage back on track. If DH was responding to St John's Wort, I wonder if counselling and maybe some kind of medication might help?

That said, totally understand your feelings of alienation from him--in fact it sounds like a healthy response and your self preservation instincts and self esteem kicking in as they should.

I imagine you haven’t got the feeling back because you now realise that all this time he was doing it deliberately. That he could have controlled it and that he was ok with hurting you and your children

And that the only reason he has changed his behaviour is because you are on the verge of leaving. If you weren’t, he would still be ok with hurting you and the dc.

And, if you do decide to stay and he feels comfortable with that, it will start again.

That I why I think your feelings aren’t coming back.

He is not emotionally ignorant due to his job - he is avoiding counselling precisely because he knows he will be outed.

Totally agree with this ^ I work in this field and as a MH professional, he should know better. He's using your reaction towards the years of abuse (for that is what it is), against you. You are right to question whether you can deal with another 20 years of this...because I couldn't.

I think you need to leave him, the fact that he’s managed to keep a lid on his temper for the past few months doesn’t erase the previous 20 years nor does it make you a bad person for being done with it all.

Your description of hugging and waiting it out with your kids reminded me a lot of my childhood. I remember my dad looming over my mum and shouting, and I remember being terrified. I’m really glad they split up when I was 4. I think you’re right not to want to live with it for the next 20 years and I don’t think your kids should have to live with it for the next 10/15 years either.

Yes I think it speaks volumes he's managed to reign it in.
Also, can you imagine him have these rages at work? Because if he wouldn't treat a.colleague like that then how dare he treat his wife like that.

To be honest I think a mix of couples counselling and counselling on your own (both of you)could help.