Demise of marriage? Feelings turned by one conversation!

[Freetodowhatiwant]

I don’t really know where to start. I have been with DH for almost 20 years and married for almost 10. We had a lot of fun for the 10 years prior to getting married – travelling and plenty of going out. I’ve been with him since age 25 and am now 45. He is 11 years older but this isn’t an issue, he’s very youthful in many ways. We have two children aged 7 and 4.

Our relationship has many positive aspects – when we have time to hang around together we laugh and share the similar interests. There are no significant domestic issues in terms of housework and cooking. He used to do much more than me pre-kids and now I do probably more as I am at home more (work from home). The house is a bit of a mess but this is because of the kids and we both try our best so that’s not a huge issue even though there is the occasional argument about this I think it's normal.

To my friends who’ve moaned about their partners for other reasons (two have DHs who don’t do anything around the house) I have always said that mine and DH’s relationship is 80% good, not perfect but enough to keep us together.

Herein lies the problem though. The 20% bad has been his anger issues. He had had them from the beginning. Most of the males in his family had the same issues. He often gets angry for no reason. Getting ready in the morning is a particular issue. He will shout and stomp around and if the anger is directed at me can sometimes seriously intimidate me. He has never hit me but he has loomed over me many times and his face and body are terrifying. He’s 6ft and I’m 5.5ft so he has a height and physical presence that can scare me. There have been times this has happened in front of the children and the children and I have all been hugging and waiting until it passes. He’s a mental health professional (I know) so there are times when he has been able to keep this under control for a while (taking St John’s Wort helps) but there have been many times when he is angry and I feel like I am treading on egg shells. Sometimes this has been on a daily basis, particularly for a few hours in the morning, and has ruined a good part of the day. He is always sorry afterwards and he knows he is out of order. I am not perfect of course, but I am just focusing on DH’s anger issues. I am by nature, I think, quite a happy person but when he has one of these angry episodes it really plunges my mood.

Here’s the weirdest thing. In January he had two angry mornings in a row, nothing out of the ordinary, and on the second morning something just clicked inside me and I suddenly thought ‘I cant do this for the rest of my life’. My mood plunged and I entered a low depression from which I didn’t emerge for a couple of months and to be honest it is still bubbling under the surface and although I am carrying on with life as normal I am still quite emotional. This is very very unusual for me as I usually brush things off but it was like all the angry episodes over the 19 years we had been together just built up into one homogenous mass that has eaten away at me.

Whilst I have been thinking about an alternative future it has also given me feelings - unrelated to his anger issues - about whether I want to be with him for another 20+ years. It now just all feels like an awful long time. I have told him all this and we have had a couple of conversations about our future. The thing is since telling him how my feelings have changed for him he has kept an incredibly good check on his moods, not perfect but I am not saying I am either. But my low feelings and doubt about whether I can be with him for the rest of my life haven’t changed though and I find myself trawling the boards here trying to find some solution, researching divorce, researching people who have stayed together and not really knowing wtf to do.

It’s like I am in a quiet crisis, carrying on with day to day activities and life. We are abroad for the summer and he has gone back to the UK to work for a couple of weeks and I haven’t really yet missed him. This upsets me because like I said the 80% that was good meant we had fun together. We are lucky enough to have family to babysit and we can often go out. But the fact is I can’t seem to get over the build up of angry moods and a huge part of me feels the pull of freedom seems more and more attractive. I have emotionally checked out of the relationship and I don't know how to get back or if I want to. I can tell he knows this and he is trying his best but it isn’t making a difference at the moment. The thought however of tearing our family apart is also terrifying. I just don’t know what to do.

If you have got this far, well done! Any thoughts would be amazing.

Free... - I can so relate!!!!!

More with your ages and time together and 80% happy and ambivalence to leaving or staying with kid(s). My dp isn't big or aggresive like that but his anger can come out quite passively instead. So it's not an anger issue for me as such. But avoidance can be angry if not abusive. In my case my dp is work focused and goes for weeks without checking in emotionally. And he won't discuss sex or our lack of it. He's just really active in parts of his life but just checks out of the relationship, is moody and never initiates stuff.
Something for me too has clicked this year. And I just feel so internally angry about so much over the years. I've really made myself invisible so he can shine socially, most people have stopped asking me about me as my dp does an interesting job. And like I said I've in earlier years played along. But I don't want to anymore. Like yours - my dp is also aware of the seriousness. And responding. But I just keep thinking if (assuming I can) de-click he'll just go avoidant on me again and make out I'm needy when I just want an intimate relationship.
It's that hitting a wall. I just don't want to feel vulnerable again as I feel like he takes me for granted or just drops me emotionally when it suits him. So Fk him. It's clicked. The midlife crisis has arrived.

I don't really know if I've just had enough of managing men's lives. I've put the energy into our relationship (rather than career).

I regret not asking for more. Everyone makes good points about the anger. But that aside, is that click still there?

I think you must be a very accommodating person to put up with this for so long. My relationship ended after 20 years - he was very rarely overtly angry - it ended for other reasons, but then I went out a man for 9 months who had literally had tantrums or would get annoyed and angry at stupid things and I just couldn't bear the way it made me feel - the discomfort. It sounds to me that you had acclimatised yourself to it over the years and were numbing the effects on yourself so you could continue... and then one day the novocaine wore off.

The fact that he has been better recently shows you that he can control his moods, but he has chosen not to control them - he has consistently chosen to dump them on you - for years - it's a form of bullying.

On another note: Don't you think it's crazy to expect one person to fulfil all your needs over one lifetime? 20 years is enough. Before the wheels fell off my 20 year relationship in a traumatic way, I remember staring at his back one night as he was working on his laptop, and I knew that there was no more left in the tank of our relationship. Parting was terrible (because I then found out about the affair) but in truth, we were done. Another 20 years would have been death.

I think you should not force a decision, but focus on yourself. I suspect the pieces will fall into place.

It sounds like his bullying ways now being directed at your dc has finally made the scales fall from eyes. Well done. Now you need to keep that clear vision of who he really is - an angry, threatening bully who takes out his internal feelings of inferiority on his wife and small children, using his superior body strength to do so.

This man is not a good partner. How long do you think it will be, realistically, before he flies into another rage and screams at you and the dc as you cower away from him?

He doesn't kick off at work like this, does he? Or in front of anyone else? He can control himself. He can't be bothered (or hasn't until the last few months - and is undoubtedly going to resume the nasty/nice cycle as soon as he feels he's got you back to heel.)

My dad pulled this kind of shit regularly during my childhood. His temper tantrums would lead to him kicking and throwing our toys out of sheer spite (usually something he knew we valued highly, like the Lego castle my sister has just spent hours building, or the Spirograph I had spent hours setting up.) my mum did not leave until I involved Ss myself age 15 and she resented me for "breaking up the family" instead of thanking me for being brave enough to take the steps she wouldn't.

It's affected my sister and me our whole lives. Please protect your dc and get this abusive shitbrick out of your lives.

Thank you so much for all the responses. I did have a quick look throughout the day when on the beach with my kids and a couple of commnets really cut the bone in their accuracy as to how I have felt.

Clareisland and others you’re so right about having often had to be on high alert and yes I worry about the children seeing his behaviour. My childhood- as you asked – was great. I’m still really close to my parents who are still together. I think DH can sometimes find that annoying but he likes them too overall and they help us a lot with child care so that helps him too. DH had a distant father and a mother who wasn’t always great despite having 5 kids.

Simkin you said Just because you didn't tell him about your feelings before doesn't mean he couldn't imagine what being bellowed at by someone physically bigger than you would feel like, or how trying to change your own behaviour to avoid it might feel and yes you’re completely right. ]

Allybama well done for leaving. What percentage of your life with him was abusive do you think? I know it’s a silly way to look at it but going on my 80% good thing. I know what you mean about not wanting to look back and regret not doing it earlier. I’m 45 now and time isn’t exactly on my side.

Angelasashes it was your post that really got to me. I AM definitely dealing with more than an angry DH and I can feel some mid-life crisis traits. It’s probably not coincidence, like you said, that I seem to be peak mid-life crisis age and now have suddenly thought I can’t put up with this.

Rocket I do get it when you say I should leave now for the sake of the kids. But it’s hard not knowing whether it is bad ENOUGH if you know what I mean. Also he’s not a bad guy, he’ actually very decent except for this anger issue. I know how that sounds. And we have a good life together in the main. Again I know how that sounds.

Nearly I think he has actualy been on Citolopram or whatever it is called at some times. Not sure if he is still on it. I’ve always been the happy one out of the two of us but since January my moods have become more like his. Not the anger but definitely the bouts of low mood.

Aussiebean that’s a very good point, and others have made it too, about him being able to control the anger now it really counts. Meaning yes he would have been able to control it before but just didn’t want to.

Pink the job thing is interesting. He’s often very intuitive and good in a crisis. But I do find he tries to manipulate situations when we have an argument and I think uses some of his work techniques to the negative in this sense.

Riotlady sorry about your experience with your Dad. I have felt this when he has been angry and they are there or the (thankfully rare) times he has been overly angry with them. I’m almost waiting for him to do it now so I have a really good excuse to call it a day.

Horehound and others yes I agree about the counselling. I think that will be my first step when I get back to the UK.

Schoolgate sorry you are going through it too. It’s confusing isn’t it!IT’s low level abusve I guess and sometimes worth putting up with for the good bits but what if we turn around and regret staying and time has ticked by and we’re older etc etc. I just don’t know.

Rosabug ha! Yes I do think it’s a bit crazy to expect one person to fulfill you your whole lifetime. I come from a family that has couples who have always stayed together. My grandmother put up with all sorts of shit from my Granddad. My parents are luckily still generally happy. I think you’re right about not forcing a decision but biding my time.

Furious sorry about your dad, that sounds shit. Yesd DH can be like that sometimes. It’s rare that he’s really awful in front of the kids but yes it has happened. You’;re right too about his bullying ways, he definitely does bully me but again it’s not all the time. We have nice tomes too. It’s intereestig from your POV that I am in a bullying relationship because there is SOME bullying. Maybe you’re right.

We might be having a massive change in our life soon that would mean that the DCs and I stay abroad for a few months and DH commutes back to the UK on a fortnightly basis. That will be make or break for the relationship I feel. I’m scared of this but at some point it needs to get to that point I guess.

My exh was my best friend, my accomplice and a person I could talk with even for the first years after we split.

That doesn’t mean our marriage was good, or good for our child. I dealt with everyday one day at a time and was dying inside at the thought of spending the rest of my life with him. I guess that in every marriage, there can come the straw that breaks the camel’s back. If you are there already start putting your ducks in a row and leave as soon as you are ready.

Forget about marriage counselling, that doesn’t work with abusive partners. Honestly OP, do you want your children to grow thinking that this is what relationships are about? That is normal for dad to have the whole family walking over eggshells to avoid daddy have a tantrum? Forget about your perceived 80% good, that is no way to live a life.

I would say my relationship was 90% non-confrontational. The other 10% was exactly as you describe. Exactly. Morning strops, irratonal anger, kids a bit scared etc....

My ex did change in that he now knows that sort of behaviour is wrong. However I feel like I in effect rsised another child addressing his dysfunctional childhood even tho I had one too and frankly I did not want to fuck him after that. Much less be friends....

frankly I did not want to fuck him after that. Much less be friends....

Made me laugh anyway Youwantshoes! What made you leave in the end though?

Thanks Tan yeah you're probably right. What was the straw that broke the camel's back for you?

No one should have to live with such an emotionally incontinent partner.

@Freetodowhatiwant to answer your question, the percentage probably started off small but my tolerance and enabling of the behaviour probably meant the percentage was much much higher at the end. But I’d taught him for a long time that it was acceptable so it’s not surprising really. And let me tell you, at 45 you literally have your whole life ahead of you. There is so much life left to live! Don’t live it in a prison x

Sorry to be a cynic, but if he can't control his temper at 56, when exactly will he be able to control it?

I think you'd be perfectly justified to say that you need the outbursts to stop - he can try counselling or whatever he thinks will help him control his temper - and put the onus on him to deal with it.

I agree that at 45, you still have a lot of life left to live (I'm also 45 ) and you don't have to put up with this behaviour. He needs to realise how lucky he is to have a family and put more effort into showing his love for them.

I'm frankly gobsmacked that someone his age can't see this.

Personally, I'd have left 20 years ago after the first couple of episodes. I wonder how he would react if, when he's just sitting quietly, you loom over him and scream in his face. I wouldn't advocate that you try that, but imagine if that's how you behaved on a regular basis, would you be surprised if his feelings changed towards you?

No one needs to blow up because someone happens to be standing in the way, you just step round them . If the house is untidy then you help to tidy it up; it's a joint house. If you don't really love him any more because you have lost respect for him then you have your answer.

You have talked a lot about your feelings in this thread but not much about your children. Do you think it's fair on your children to live with this? Children need consistency and predictability from their parents - to have a parent who kicks off randomly and terrifies them is a horrible way to live. It will be causing them enormous stress and anxiety.

even me sometimes accidentally being in the way of him in the corridor or somewhere

On top of all the rest, this is terrifying to me. It seems as if he feels it is OK to blame and terrorise you for his own emotional release. Maybe he is addicted to the shouting and anger and adrenalin that goes with it. But it''s not the response of a loving partner, or indeed any adult that has respect for another. Either joint counselling with very clear time lines and outcomes (you don't want to invest too much more into this, you need your energy for your own future with your children, not to get endlessly dragged into something that isn't working). Or he should leave. Even then you may still need joint or solo counselling to smooth the way and get the best outcomes for your DC.

I think you know what you need to do OP. Good luck.

Just to add, there will be better times ahead....rely on your friends, your family, people who love and respect you for the great person you are. Invest in and focis on yourself, you are worth it. Abusers shift the focus in a relationship to be all about them, everyone else focused on keeping them happy. This is wrong and it will be incredibly liberating for you and your DC when this oppression is lifted.

The anger is a problem because it makes you afraid of him. If he was crashing about like a fool shouting about his keys and the state of the kitchen and you and the DC’s were just rolling your eyes and letting him get on with it it would be unacceptable but ok. People are allowed to be angry.
However he does it and he must know how upset you all are. No one should feel frightened of their partner. He’s putting his own needs first.
You need to be in a position where you can tell him to stop and pull himself together. Is he disorganised? Tell him to sort it out.

I do think you need space to talk, but I’m very worried that you said you need a safe space to tell him how you’re feeling. That says how frightened you are, and that’s just unacceptable.

Go by yourself first. Sort your own stuff out. And find a way to talk to your DC’s about the effects of anger on them.

OP I spent 15 years in a relationship very similar to this (No DCs tho). Weirdly mornings and getting ready to go out were the worst for me as well. If, for example, he couldn't find his keys he would scream and shout and threaten to tear the house apart if he couldn't find them. If we were running late, or anything didn't go his way, massive temper tantrum and storming round the house swearing and stamping. And whenever I raised it I always got 'it's not aimed at you, I'd never hit you, it's just the way I am, take no notice'.

It's exhausting and terrifying to live with and I spent most of my time with a faintly sick feeling in my stomach, and making lots of excuses to go for a walk or to the shops if I could feel it in the air. Horrible horrible way to live.

And one day....I just had enough. As a PP said over time it erodes the love; how can you continue to love someone who thinks it's ok for you to feel scared and on edge all the time? And the problem is even if he gets it under control for a while, you will always be wondering if/ when it's going to happen again. It's no way to live. A friend of mine once saw it in action, only once, and looked at me and said "you're scared of him. You should never have to be scared of your partner. Please leave him. I think he's a great guy usually and he loves you but this is not acceptable". I think what happens is when you live it every day it becomes normalised, when most people don't live like that, but you sort of convince yourself it's ok.

Please take my friend's advice.

Things that stand out to me- he CAN control his anger, he wouldn’t do that at work so why should his children and you be subject to his bullying vile behaviour.
He of all people should know that if he was wanting to make things better he would arrange, book and pay for counselling
I think you have probably minimised the effect his nastiness has had on you and it’s caught up with you, hence your feelings now.
It’s not ok for children to think this is how relationships work.
I wish you all the best in finding your way forward

He sounds awful. I would say that the vast majority of abusive relationships are mostly good. No one would stay in a relationship with someone who was always horrible to them.

My XH would be terribly sorry for losing his temper and scaring us (also no violence other than punching walls). He was incredibly good at apologising (he got a lot of practise) and it was so easy to get drawn back in.

The thing is, people who are sorry don’t keep doing the same thing. If I told you “Please don’t do this, it hurts me” and you kept doing it - but apologised each time - it would be fair to assume that you knew exactly what you were doing and had made the decision to do thing that hurt me.

That’s what he is doing. I spent years trying to communicate with XH. I thought that if I could just find the right words to convince him that his anger was hurting me, then he would stop (why wouldn’t he? He was sorry, so he must care). One day I realised that of course he knew - I had told him, he was an intelligent man, of course he knew. He just didn’t care enough to stop it.

You don’t miss him and you’ve already reached the point of seeing it all for what it is. Another 20+ years with XH would have finished me off.

I don’t think 45-49 is the age of divorce because of mid-life crises. I think it’s the time when most women have a level of confidence in themselves that they didn’t have when they were younger, and are unwilling to waste their lives on less than they deserve. There’s only so long you can be told “I’m sorry” for the same action.

He has shown that he could change - at least for a while. He has shown he is unwilling to seek help. He has shown that he expects you to change to accommodate him, instead of him treating you with the respect you deserve.

20% is far too much. I think it was probably closer to 10% with my XH, and that was too much.

OP, I think the chance to live abroad while your “D”H commutes might give you a chance to see what life without him is like.
You will either miss him and want him around, or you will feel a huge release of tension and a sense of freedom from walking on eggshells and waiting for the next explosion.
If, as I suspect, it’s the latter, then I think you should sit him down and say you are leaving him unless he can completely turn his behaviour round - he’d have to do anger management, counselling, and medication, and there must be absolutely no more outbursts. Those are the bare minimum requirements for you to even consider staying with him.
Only deliver this ultimatum if you’re prepared to follow through with it. At the first explosion, you will be leaving. If you don’t, he will see you don’t mean it and will carry on as usual.

What does he do now when he's not pleased? My experience is that you can sometimes change/ stop a particular way of expressing his anger at you but you can't change the fact that he feels it's his 'right' to do it. So bullying and shouting is replaced by passive agression, or withholding punishments, or crazy making, or contempt or rule making etc etc. Then back to the original behavior and on and on. Abuse is a cycle. It always comes back.

I think as others have said, that you are now seeing that he always could have controlled it, he just chose not to. He wouldn't have been able to stay in his job if he'd raged at people the way he has raged at you.

He IS an abuser. The 80/20 split is typical, because no-one would stay with someone who was always horrible. My own experience was that this equation gradually skewed the other way, so it was 20 per cent of the time he was ok - but that ex was incredibly abusive, yours sounds a lot cleverer than that.

I would end it. He is an abuser and abusers don't change. Your depression etc will massively shift when he is out of the equation. Feeling it is your fault is typical too - it's part of the egg-shell walking - thinking you have some sort of control over the reactions of the abuser, when you really don't.

Please don't bring up your children around this. I really hope you see how great your life can be without him when you are away for the prolonged period. But be prepared for the trauma bond to make itself known at this point - read up about it, because it can feel way stronger than love, since it is a type of biochemical addiction.

Sending lots of love to you and your children.

It's interesting to me that people always say on these threads that you are teaching the children how to behave in a relationship. I can tell you how very true that is. My brother is in his 60s and still treats me with the disdain my father taught him when we were children. I am a successful and happy person but he still thinks I'm worthless. It's because of the advice to others in these boards that I can now cope with his awful behaviour - once my elderly infirm mother actually pops her clogs, bless her, I will have nothing to do with my brother ever again. And it's taken me years to get to this point.

If you can't leave for yourself, leave to prevent the inevitable damage to the children. Good luck

What really jumped out at me is that fact that your very young children witness his frightening behaviour. If you are scared, how do you think they feel? Please don't say that they rarely see it, they are protected from it... if there is anger and fear in the home children will pick up on it.

I was one of those children and I've never been able to completely get over it (and I am now 60!) Please think carefully about moving on without him - you are not helping them by staying in this situation.

My straw? Putting up through years of abuse from the in-laws while my ex watched in silence. Last time it went from verbal abuse to aggression, my ex watched silently and cried... not because I was being attacked while holding my baby on my arms... but because his mum was upset.

It took me another couple of years to put the ducks in a row to leave but from that moment onwards I was never able to see him as a man, he just became little brother I needed to take care of. Now, when the scales finally come off your eyes, you realise that that 80% of goodness it is just your efforts to balance the situation out... nothing to do with him. He might not even try at all and you have not noticed.

You have to walk on eggshells when your DH is in a mood. Imagine how your children feel. You and your children hugged and waited out his ltemper tantrum. That would have been a first and last for me. Dont raise your children in a hostile environment. They and you deserve better.