Husband is indexable

[kyleannkelsey]

My husband is overall a nice guy but he is unbelievably inflexible by my account. Many years ago we had a fight about how I felt I could only choose from a couple options for weekend activities, costco or stay at home and do chores and watch TV. He said that we could do other things if I have him adequate time to adjust. So, basically I had to "present" my weekend plans on Tuesday. Then, I was essentially locked in. If it turned out to be better weather and I wanted to go hiking. I would get a big sigh, an irritated look and a "what happened to our plan?" He claims that I misread his reaction, but I can't imagine a universe when his behavior/reaction/expression could be understood as anything but irritation and scorn. He always told me that he's not restricting what I do, I can do anything I want, with a catch, it must be by myself. I hate this argument, for obvious reasons. It's nonsense. He doesn't see how he's just telling me that he doesn't care enough to accommodate my interests of lifestyle. Many years later, I have blown off his rules. We have 3 kids. I plan every trip and try to make it as co for table as I can for him. . He answers a few yes or no questions about his preferences and takes no part in any other part. These are crucial years. Our kids are young and I want to make the most of our time. But he continues to focus on staying home, making sure the lawn is even, dishwasher is emptied, all the clothes are washed. It's all focus on day to day. I feel like his priority always had been and always will be the stuff that should be background stuff that we do when the kids are asleep, cleaning and maintaining our home. No focus on making memories, discovering new things together, exploring with our children.

I don't want to hear about how we can explore and discover with our children at home. I have every opportunity to do that and I do every day. It's a big world and I want our discovery and exploration to not be limited by our property line or our town. I just want freedom for our family, including my husband to experience the broad world together.

I am looking for advice on how to make this a reality, not judgement of who is right or who is wrong. I am human, so my word choice is not going to be legally representative of the situation, so read my interpretation with a soft focus.

I just want advice on how to engage my husband and help him adjust his focus.

When I read your post it screamed autistic spectrum to me. I work in a school and this type of behaviour is typical. As it is a spectrum, there are different degrees of autistic behaviour -see Asperger syndrome.

If you’re not going to leave him, you only have two other options.

1. don’t do anything fun unless you’ve prearranged it and he agrees
2. book/do the things you want to do with your kids, and invite him along. If he’s not up for it, go without him

You may need to accept that you are not compatible as far as adventure/activities go, and you’ll need to become comfortable doing your own thing, and offering an invite to him

People do what works for them. As other people have said on this thread he won’t change. What should he? Behaving the way he does gets him exactly what he wants so he has absolutely no reason to change his behaviour and every reason to carry on as he is.

You are the unhappy one here, you want the change so the onus is on you to make the change. How you do it is up to you. You could tell him on `Tuesday that the plan for Saturday is a surprise. Or that the plan is you and the kids doing XYX while he has a quiet day in. Or you could just refuse the Tuesday thing and say that you have decided you don’t like planning ahead you’d rather play it by ear come Saturday.

If he comes with you and is sulky, point it out that evening and say ‘you clearly hated it so next time DC and I will go and you can stay home’ and stick to that. Or even better say at the time ‘you clearly aren’t enjoying this and it’s bringing the mood down so why don’t you stay here and have a coffee or head home and I’ll bring the D.C. back later?’

@NoBaggyPants

so now ASD is something not right it’s called Autistic Spectrum DISORDER which indicates that it isn’t ‘right’. It can make day to day functioning and relationships very difficult. Life is much easier without it. It’s not a criticism or a moral judgement to acknowledge that. In fact IMO it’s denying the real difficulties that being on the spectrum can cause to pretend otherwise.

Or alternatively the children grow up resenting mum because they never went to friends birthday parties, met up with friends or got their homework done because they were kept busy trailing around a national park with mum, making memories, because she refused to stay at home and let a birthday party invitation curtail her wanderlust

Where on earth does this come from? The OP has neither said that she wants to go out every weekend nor that other activities are curtailed in favour of her preferred activities.

She has said quite clearly that sometimes she wants to do more than mow the lawn at home. Its a pretty reasonable want.

Oh dear, this thread escalated quickly!
Perhaps you could make the plans and then ask if he would like to go along? If not- take the kids anyway?
I often take the kids out with out husband, it’s usually better anyway as no judgmental looks when I have ice cream with kids!

I don’t think either of you are wrong however there is nothing worse than tootling off for the weekend and coming home to a sink full of dishes and an overflowing washing basket when you just want to relax at home and not start sorting washing and drying clothes and dishes. Could you not spend a morning of the weekend doing all the chores etc together and then out with the kids the other day and a half?

C8H10N4O2

I was replying to the poster who said that it was unfair on the children to have to tell their friends that all they did at the weekend was watch dad mow the lawn, when the other children were talking about riding bikes, going to the park etc.

Why didn't you take issue with that poster? The op doesn't say that her dc don't get to ride bikes or go to the park.

I was simply pointing out that there are downsides to needing to be busy and going out all the time.

I often take the kids out with out husband, it’s usually better anyway as no judgmental looks when I have ice cream with kids!

What kind of person gives judgmental looks to someone having ice cream?

@DecomposingComposers

Why are people so quick to criticise the dh here? What you are saying is that the ops way of life is right and the husband's is wrong, but how so? Who says that the right way to live is by being spontaneous, always on the go, making memories, seeking adventure? Why can't being organised, running a well organised home, planning ahead be an equally valid way to live?

'Why are people so quick to criticise?'

Because people are entitled to their OWN opinions and views, and are entitled to voice opinions and views, that the OP may not like, and that are different to YOURS.

I am fucked off with people putting opinions on threads on here, and finger-wagging posters coming on, ranting at the posters who are giving opinions they don't like, for stating their opinions WHICH THE OP ASKED FOR!

Just bore off with policing this forum, and implying that people who post opinions you don't like are 'wrong' and they need to shut up!

OP, I was diagnosed with HFA after my marriage ended. One of the issues my exh had was that I was very similar to your husband.

Attempts to make/change plans caused a sudden rush of anxiety and a head fog that meant I just couldn't process it alongside the other things that i had already planned to do in my head - such as household stuff.

Unfortunately, he made no effort to meet or accommodate my differences in this area (he never planned and only ever did things as he thought of them) and it caused huge problems.

Nowadays, and with a bit of warning, I don't seem to struggle anywhere near as much. I'd still rather be at home than out although I can and do go out with planning.

It's not awkwardness on my part - I simply can't process last minute changes or the disruption to what I've planned to do. Its hugely stressful.

I had no trouble with my exh taking the children out or whatever on his own and I'd sometimes stay at home and get the things done. I'd just do different things with them on different days - with or without him.

The children are older now and know that if they ask if a friend can come over/stay the night RIGHT NOW, I'm going to say no. But 48 hours notice? That's fine.

Whether he is on the autistic spectrum or not, surely it makes sense to accommodate both of your needs and quirks rather than deciding he is in the wrong for wanting/needing things to be done slightly differently to you.

I've always thought that NTs are quite inflexible tbh in their insistence that their way is the 'correct' way of doing things and me and my fellow autistics are in the wrong 🤷‍♀️

I would just go out and enjoy my life with the kids and if he joins in he joins in and if he doesn't he misses out and can do all the boring jobs at home. Doesn't seem there I'd any other choice 🤣

He just has developed behaviors that are not conducive the lifestyle I want to live.

No he hasn't "developed" them, he has always had them or at least for many years.

behaviors are not an intrinsic part of who you are.

Oh yes they are. Sorry!

Human behaviors are malleable

Only up to a point, especially adults. He is who he is and he's not going to change very much.

He claims that I misread his reaction, but I can't imagine a universe when his behavior/reaction/expression could be understood as anything but irritation and scorn.

I would read it as anxiety myself. Quite a few people respond irritably to situations that disturb them.

He a social delight. He has a phd. He's in a managerial position at work. He has no signs of symptoms of autism.

Except for this one . I'm not saying he has autism, I wouldn't know or care, but this inflexibility and need for warning and planning is clearly a deeply ingrained part of his personality and he isn't going to start wanting to lead your flexible lifestyle any more than you are going to start wanting to lead his.

DH and I don't do spontaneity. We are fairly compatible on this, we do like going out but we plan together ahead of time and make sure all the "jobs" are done and we can both get very discombobulated if "something comes up" . It's a joke between us to be very proud if we do manage to do something without a ton of warning. And even if it was fun we still both need to de-stress afterwards.

He always told me that he's not restricting what I do, I can do anything I want, with a catch, it must be by myself.

Is that a deliberate catch or just a plain fact?

The worrying bit is where you say he resents you if you leave him at home or decides to come along begrudgingly.

I do agree with that concern. It doesn't necessarily mean he is trying to bring you down, but it might mean that. Or it might just mean what it means on the surface, that he really does need all this advance warning. The most you can really do is accept that you are very different people with different needs and see if he will accept the same, that you need to go and do things and he is to keep his resentments to himself, that he is not to come with you if he is going to openly begrudge and spoil the day. And try to find a mix of planning together and independence that more or less works. Don't expect perfection.

If he's really a nice caring bloke in every other way then do what you want to do, keep the roles that suit you both as ZetaPuppis suggests, decrease the grumbles by putting some alternatives (if... then...) into your Tuesday plans and otherwise let him grumble a bit and don't let it get to you.

@JustWantALoverLikeAnyOther I could have written your post! My rigidity made my exH critique me and find me lacking all the time. My lack of flexibility drove him nuts. Anyway, well said.

Anxiety is part of autism/hfa.

You rang?

You say your behaviours are constantly changing, that's your choice and presumably you want to change them. That's a world away from wanting someone else to change their behaviour for your benefit. Your husband will never change unless he wants to, and it doesn't sound like he does.

If you decide to stay with him I'd second what other posters suggest about doing chores one day of the weekend and having the other as the 'fun day'. Our house was always immaculate (he was also a minimalist which I couldn't see working with kids) so there wasn't really any issue of that with us; if the house was clean/tidy he would simply rather watch sport ALL day. If your husband is like that then I don't see how you can expect him to ever come with you and join in/help with the fun stuff.

I am not autistic, just a homebody who doesn't like surprises or spontaneous change of plans (I'm sure there are lots of people with autism like this too). I have often already planned out my day in my head, taking into account chores and fun and work and don't want to change it. This is very irritating to a spontaneous person.

One thing I would say- is that if you want your children to see the big wide world, then make sure they do, even if you or your husband aren't there. I know I don't like camping, so I've encouraged any chance my children have got to go- Brownies, off with friends and so on. Same with going abroad, I do go but I'm not fussed, so they go with the school, with Guides and so on. I've encouraged them to volunteer travel and so on, knowing that some of that stuff I won't want to do myself. I like to think that creating a nice safe haven at home to come back to is also valuable- perhaps your husband feels the same, and with some extra tweaking and activities for them, they can also have the mind-expanding activities you feel they need.

#makingmemories is a red herring if your husband is loving and engaged with them in different ways- having their school uniform ready and giving them a hug before school is just as valid a way to make memories for kids (who value security and constancy) as taking them on a zip slide.

I suspect OP will not come back to hear what she doesn’t want to hear. She defended him at every turn after her original post, she’s in a tough position. Rock and hard place. Personally, in how she described him I don’t see a good Husband and Father but each to their own.

My dh often doesn’t want to go out on his days off. I carry on and take the dc out and he is welcome to join us. Don’t let his reluctance to go out and do things stop you. Either he’ll decide to come too eventually or he won’t, you’ll still get to have a nice time with the children. I understand it’s disappointing when you want to do things as a family though.

A daily planner. Housework gets done during the week. Pa y for a gardener/cleaner if possible, book for a Friday so it looks it's best for the weekend.
School and work Washing, washed and dried on a Friday night, then again Sunday night for weekend wear. Ironing on a Sunday night, marked on the planner.
Option a and b marked on the planner for activities over the weekend (subject to weather)
Lay it all out in writing, and don't engage

He a social delight. He has a phd. He's in a managerial position at work. He has no signs of symptoms of autism

People think I'm sociable and lovely too. And I am when I've managed my social environment to be appropriate for me. They see it when I get disrupted from that though.

I lso have a first class degree and a Masters. Unfortunately, life got in the way of me getting a doctorate.

My friend, who is also autistic, has 4 degrees and a hugely responsible position in a national organisation. None of these things preclude you from being autistic.

Autism isn't a synonym for 'thick'.

Neither is it an illness - so we talk about traits rather than symptoms, thanks.

@surlycurly thank you.

Life is so much easier now I plan it myself!

I think in your situation, op i would just carry on making plans -ones which won't matter if he's there or not and just do them.
If he wants to come but is "begrudgingly" going I'd be like "no, no, no..you decide to come you cut this attitude out or you're not coming"

I have a question though...if you died, what kind of life do you think your kids would have?

@ValidVictorian excellent work

If you've tried communicating, it's leave or manage the behaviour.

TBH I grew up in a house hold where everything was discussed to nth degree so spontaneous wasn't frequent. So having a plan by Tuesday doesn’t seem impossible - I often trail ideas for weeks later.

Have you tried - dry weather plan/wet weather plan.
Saturday is out day Sunday is chore day.
Going by yourself and he can come along or not and ignoring any sulks - ( I do know what you mean as DH has sulked on a few trips but in my case he and the kids have ended up enjoying the activity even more than me so waiting it out worked)

Having a list of possible outings - in your back pocket - I find this gets around IL and occasionally DH deciding to be awkward as they think I really want to do something though since I’ve had since kids were little family seem to think I’m some kind of entertainment officer – and increasingly IL say they want to go out but actually they want cinema and a meal so rather than waste head space having a pre-done list they can happily reject first keeps me sane.

Plough though any road blocks – which can mean pre booking stuff – works with DMum and DH both very enthusiastic but oh look some imaginary problem– or go without them.

You can’t change other people’s behaviour just how you react to it.