Husband is indexable

[kyleannkelsey]

My husband is overall a nice guy but he is unbelievably inflexible by my account. Many years ago we had a fight about how I felt I could only choose from a couple options for weekend activities, costco or stay at home and do chores and watch TV. He said that we could do other things if I have him adequate time to adjust. So, basically I had to "present" my weekend plans on Tuesday. Then, I was essentially locked in. If it turned out to be better weather and I wanted to go hiking. I would get a big sigh, an irritated look and a "what happened to our plan?" He claims that I misread his reaction, but I can't imagine a universe when his behavior/reaction/expression could be understood as anything but irritation and scorn. He always told me that he's not restricting what I do, I can do anything I want, with a catch, it must be by myself. I hate this argument, for obvious reasons. It's nonsense. He doesn't see how he's just telling me that he doesn't care enough to accommodate my interests of lifestyle. Many years later, I have blown off his rules. We have 3 kids. I plan every trip and try to make it as co for table as I can for him. . He answers a few yes or no questions about his preferences and takes no part in any other part. These are crucial years. Our kids are young and I want to make the most of our time. But he continues to focus on staying home, making sure the lawn is even, dishwasher is emptied, all the clothes are washed. It's all focus on day to day. I feel like his priority always had been and always will be the stuff that should be background stuff that we do when the kids are asleep, cleaning and maintaining our home. No focus on making memories, discovering new things together, exploring with our children.

I don't want to hear about how we can explore and discover with our children at home. I have every opportunity to do that and I do every day. It's a big world and I want our discovery and exploration to not be limited by our property line or our town. I just want freedom for our family, including my husband to experience the broad world together.

I am looking for advice on how to make this a reality, not judgement of who is right or who is wrong. I am human, so my word choice is not going to be legally representative of the situation, so read my interpretation with a soft focus.

I just want advice on how to engage my husband and help him adjust his focus.

I have a PhD. And I'm autistic. Just saying.

Have you ever just simply, and calmly, asked him why he finds it difficult to cope with changes of plan..?

It sounds like it won't be easy to make him 'spontaneous' but that doesn't mean you can't still have lots of fun on a well planned trip.

For fuck’s sake why is MN so fucking OBSESSED with autism?

I totally agree with you, it's constant. Even on the Love Island threads for Christ sake.

I think some of these comments are pretty harsh towards him. He doesn't sound a bad person just someone who wants to live differently to you op. He wants routine, mundane and a spotless home. You want outdoors and adventure. I'd accept him as he is, enjoy your own adventures with the kids or just leave him and maybe find someone who share your interests one day

I agree, my son is on the autistic spectrum and he understands the concept of taking turns. I think the problem is male entitlement. Which is served up with various excuses to make the behaviour seem less egregious.

But OP, you say in your second post that you won't leave him. I think this is your problem. You told us that you won't leave him. That's your position. He knows this. He knows that things as they are right now aren't breaking your deal so to speak. So why would he be motivated to be more accommodating?? He has told you that he isn't changing. You have told us, and I bet communicated with your fear and your backing down and your staying, told him that you're not leaving. Therefore, he doesn't have to change. No need. The set up as it is now suits him. He knows you're not happy but he also knows you won't leave over being unhappy.

Have you ever just simply, and calmly, asked him why he finds it difficult to cope with changes of plan..?

I got asked this and I couldn't answer. You may as well ask why I have blue eyes.

I just like plans and living my life with some semblance of organisation. I like knowing we're not going to be stuck in roadworks for hours because we didn't check the route; or that we got a good deal on tickets (and confirmed entry) and not ending up paying full price on the gate (or being refused); or that I know to pack my wellies so I don't ruin my nice shoes.

I am not comfortable with aimless days out, they just don't seem like fun when nobody knows what the hell is going on or when or where or how.

It's not inherently bad to be like that; just like it's not inherently bad to see a special offer at lunchtime and be at Gatwick by 2pm. It's just different.

My dh is a bit older than me and grew up in an old fashioned, fairly low income family, in a little country village. Saturday meant a trip to the local town on the bus with mum to buy a pack of pick and mix from Woolworths and a comic. Sunday was church, a big roast dinner and helping dad in the garden. They only went on trips occasionally during the holidays or to things like the village fete. At this time it was considered fine for kids to play out and he would be out all day with his friends playing in the fields while his mum did the housework and knitted. Dh is more open to going on outings now but I think he remembers his childhood fondly and has a tendency to like a fairly quiet life.

I don't know about your dh but going out on trips every weekend to "make memories" is a fairly modern idea. Maybe because we can't safely turn the dc out to play and just say 'make sure you are home for dinner,' and partly because we often have more money and can afford to go places. A lot of people are quite nostalgic for that kind of old fashioned, country childhood though. If you watched the recent series Good Omens by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman they imagined the anti Christ was so happy growing up this way he rejected his destiny of bringing about the apocalypse and went home to Tadfield for his tea .

Anyway I say all this to show there is some value in your dh's love of quiet routine and you shouldn't totally dismiss that. At the same time as I say we can't be sending our kids out to the woods to build a fort or something and you may not want to spend your day listening to the wireless and knitting. I echo pps in saying what you have to sacrifice is the spontaneity and build more routine into these trips while still making them fun. On Saturday we always go on a trip and on Sunday we visit relatives or friends or have friends over. To please dh some trips might be easier like a local walk or quick trip to nearby town and some Sundays might not involve visits and we just laze around and have a big roast dinner. Dh is welcome to come or stay home if he needs a bit of quiet. Plan your trips in advance with a different plan for bad weather, a hike if it's nice or if rain a trip to the cinema. I do sometimes envy my friends who will zoom off to Chessington because they woke up and fancied it but then again I hate a rollercoaster so I didn't really miss anything. We do live near a beach and we made a rule we will change our plans if it's a nice beach day or you end up missing the weather and if you plan to go to the beach it is invariably raining that day. We keep the beach stuff ready and it's an accepted rule, the opposite of a snow day. So you can have that kind of rule as long as everyone knows it.

What I would say is that if you talk again and dh still refuses to make this kind of compromise or only pays lip service by coming along and grumpily ruining the day I would think again. You would already be compromising by giving up your love of spontaneous plans. You don't have to sit in every weekend and it would be boring for the dc. If every weekend and holiday is miserable for you it's not much of a life so if you can't come to a compromise don't stay and regret it.

I'd be very surrised if he's not on the autistic spectrum. Rigid, inflexible, coping behaviours developed to allow him to deal with change, but needs time to come to trerms with it. Plans locked in in advance and not allowed to be changed. All absolutely classic ASD. I'm not quite sure how you get to the idea that autistic people can't have PhDs - I know many ASD academics. The hyperfocus helps with it!

I'm not surprised he's not diagnosed ASD because it wasn't widely diagnosed in our generation. Being socially able (learned behaviour) is quite possible for high functioning ASD folks.

Look at some literature about high functioning ASD. It may help you understand him.

Just go out on your own if he's being a boring bastard! If he moans that you go out then tell him to sort out his boring attitude to life!

It’s not that behaviour is “good or bad” is that it’s not fun to live with.

Of course liking a clean and tidy house is a good thing . A spotless, show home house puts people on edge.

Having a designated day for food shopping, fine.Not being able to cope if you have to change it once in a blue moon, not fine.

Not read it all but would he be comfortable with a time slot where you could do certain list of pre approved activities like a walking or going to the pool or shopping mall. So even if he didn’t want to do it he would know it’s only between 3-5pm?

Just go out on your own if he's being a boring bastard! If he moans that you go out then tell him to sort out his boring attitude to life!

That is such a nasty, judgemental comment.

He a social delight. He has a phd. He's in a managerial position at work. He has no signs of symptoms of autism.

I can be sociable, I'm starting a PhD next year and I have a fast-paced job with a lot of responsibility. I'm also autistic.

He sounds exactly like me when it comes to planning. I get very distressed when plans are changed and it takes a few days for me to come around to something.

Stop pandering to the fucker. As PP have said, make your plans and do what you and DC want - he has the option to come along, or to stay at home. On some level, what people like this want is attention: you're supposed to coax him, beg him, promise him treats if he just complies with what the rest of the family want sometimes - it gives him a sense of power. If he complains, point out that he has the option to either join you or suggest something else, but that you are not going to waste your DC's leisure time by plodding grimly through unnecessary chores.

When I was a nipper my mum was obsessed with filling up our weekends with "value". In reality this meant we kids rarely got a chance to do anything we wanted as we would be dragging round the shops or sitting in the corner of our grandmother's front room being seen and not heard.

As an adult, my last ex sounds a lot like you op. We didn't have any joint children so that made things easier, but he would like to jump out of bed on Saturday morning and say "Hey let's go to xyz today!" and I'd be annoyed as I'd mentally planned to do the grocery shopping, the laundry, and some solo gaming.

If he said to me in advance "Hey next weekend let's go to London and see my mum, then my brother, then my sister" it was not a problem. I am an introvert and have social anxiety but given enough time to prepare, coping strategies work well for me.

It seems your dh has already given you his coping strategy of planning in advance so I'm not sure why you're trying to find ways of making him into someone different in order to meet your spontaneous style more conveniently for you.

OP - life doesn’t always turn out the way we want to.
It’s very simple. You can’t change another adult to suit your expectation of how your life together should be.
You decided to have a family with him. His inability to deal with change of plans is a given.
You need to work around it or leave.
Absolutely no point ruining your life arguing and trying to make him see the error of his ways. As there are none.
You aren’t more right than him. You are just different.
And he clearly is on a spectrum on that dimension.

Dh is like this. I'm pretty sure he's on the spectrum somewhere. He fully admits he finds change difficult.
I have always just got on with whatever I want to do with the kids and he comes or doesn't come. Including holidays abroad which he doesn't come on. That way they and I don't miss out, and if he does, he only has himself to blame.

@gingersausage several of the people on this thread have been through the very lengthy process of being diagnosed with ASD. If, therefore, we see similarities in the behaviour and are trying to help the OP consider that her husband isn't a difficult prick and perhaps has other issues, we are entitled to do so. And as awareness improves it's not a surprise that there will be more diagnoses. And I do feel entitled to comment as an autistic person myself. I'm also likely to call a prick a prick. I don't think it's the case here. And I'm not in an armchair to give you this opinion.

I love the term 'property line' almost as much as I love 'county line'. Reminds me of the Moonshine advert.

Look, you've had three kids with him. Stick or twist.

If he likes structure, use that: set aside clear times for household chores (we do ours before 7am and after 9pm), set up two ideas during the week (one for bad weather, one for good), sit down and brainstorm experiences you want to have as a family and do research on what activities are happening around you (this will appeal to his academic background), have a google calendar with the two of you as admins to schedule everything.

I have a similar background to your husband academically, and it has lots of benefits to offer a family but has to be wielded within its own mental framework. Give him the opportunity to shine as a father in a way that plays to those strengths.

Doesn't seem like he has any desire to change op

You say he’s not autistic but I think this is an autistic trait. You don’t want to leave him, so I think you have to manage him.

I was engaged to a guy like this. We split because he didn't like adventure really. We went around Oz and he had to plan the route/times/where we would stop to get a sandwich (all via lonely planet ). I was happy to do this for some of the time but I did delight in getting us lost a few times - of course I blamed my map reading skills (sorry women everywhere!).

As our life carried on it became clearer and clearer to me he would be happy tinkering at home, never travelling, never trying out anything new. He even decided that once we had kids he was going to re-start going to church... I couldn't see a future where I was so confined. Him refusing to come to Thailand to reignite a spark before we got married was the final straw. He was lovely in many ways, but I couldn't be married to a guy who was mentally 60 yr old at 30.

I think you either have to accept this is how your life will be or break it off and be slightly wiser next time you choose to settle down. Sorry if that sounds harsh.

@surlycurly, no you’re not “entitled” to do so. Your autism diagnosis is yours. It can’t be projected onto anyone else.

I also have some issues similar to the OP’s husband, but I have a completely different diagnosis involving mental health issues. Autism and MH are two different things and OP’s husband could have either, both or neither but I’m not remotely qualified or entitled to diagnose him over the bloody internet.

Too many adults are self-diagnosing autism instead of seeing HCPs, and too many people bang on about it on here at every opportunity, stifling discussion and shutting down anyone who dares to have a different opinion.

Are you not incredibly bored of him?