Ds1 is a nasty piece of work

[Cobblersandhogwash]

He's nearly 15.

He tells dd who is 12 to fuck off regularly. At least twice a day.

He wakes up ds3 who is 6 by poking his finger in his ear and scaring him.

He's just hurt ds2 who 9 by kneeling on his head.

He's super bright. Super selfish. Super vicious.

He smashed up his bedroom, his sister's bedroom and smashed in three doors.

We confiscate his gadgets. We penalise him by taking money from him.

He's having counselling. This is his 3rd counsellor. The others said there's nothing wrong with him.

But I'm not allowed to tell the counsellor any of this stuff as it's interfering in the confidentiality of their relationship. It's up to ds1 to tell the counsellor. As if he would.

I don't like him. I don't think I love him. His personality is so deeply unattractive.

Meanwhile, my other three children have to grow up in fear of this vindictive bully.

My family is screwed.

Omg, OP. I really feel for you. I haven't rtft, though do you think there's a root cause or trigger for this behaviour?

My youngest is 15 and has ASD/PDA. Has been in special schools since 8. I’m not really “feeling this” in your description of your son.

My older son was bloody vile between 15-17 and a family support worker worked well with him.

CAMHS were pathetic.

School did their best.

Re: the police. They had to talk to my son several times (in public, I was not there) and were always marvellous with him. I had to call them out here once, because he’d come home after someone has head butted him, and they were great then too. I’m sure they must deal with this all the time.

My Dd behaves like this, she has (undiagnosed) PDA.
She's currently staying at her boyfriends as she got violent with me again.
It's awful, I have no answers other than get him out of your house asap, the longer he stays, the more it will ruin your relationship with him, and the rest of your family.

Of therapist says it's you I'd be asking why the 3 other children raised the same way (2 of them also boys) weren't and aren't like this.

The thing is, we parent according to our children’s personalities and we don’t realise it. An outside observer will often see it. Relatives often see it but it’s very difficult to say something. Parents don’t, as it might be very subtle but sustained attitudes towards the child that is having the effect.

So, if you have a very difficult baby who become a a very difficult pre-schooler, you might automatically be stressed and uptight around them, and be more relaxed around the next child who is naturally much easier and more laid-back. Your body language may display very subtle signs to ALL the children that you prefer to be around the easy child than with the difficult one. More stroking of hair, or rubbing of arm etc. Instinctively choosing to take a seat next to the “easy” one rather than the difficult child. Chatting about things on a walk to the easier child because you expect a sarcastic comment from the difficult child or an eye roll. you may be more tense around the “difficult” child because you’ve been conditioned into believing they will fly off into a mood/rage at any moment. You speak in a gentler tone to the easier child, smile at them more because you get a smile back rather than a scowl. You take more of a genuine interest in their achievements and may talk about them more to relatives and friends. With a warm tone to your voice. It doesn’t go unnoticed by a clever and observant “difficult” child but it all just becomes a vicious circle.

I think this is what therapists mean when they say it can often be parenting that is the issue. They’re not talking about very obvious actions towards a child but more things that are so subtly deep-rooted that it takes a long time to unpick. The child is not a monster, and the parents haven’t done anything spectacularly bad.

I’m not saying this is the case here but the fact that OP’s son WANTED to go to boarding school suggests that maybe he wasn’t happy in some way at home or quite getting what he needed. Sometimes a parent might say “well, he had everything, we bought him this or that and took him on this fancy holiday or sent him on that expensive school trip. And this is how he repays us.” But when you look at the relationship there is not much warmth either way, and it stems from SOMEWHERE.

I do think quite often that a child who feels pushed out and treated differently (even very subtly) by his parents compared to with his sibling will act out their unhappiness. It would be wrong to label all teenagers who behave badly as just being horrible kids or to assume that they must have an undiagnosed SEN.

I hope you sort things out, OP.

The child is not a psychopath, jfc, people! This behaviour and the entire family dynamic needs to be attended to by a specialist. Ss should be able to signpost; this is only going to escalate. Dh deals with kids like this all the time. DDP is very helpful. It's not easy to find a practitioner but it's very worthwhile.
Good luck to you all. Be kind to yourself.

If he was that bad from 2years old you wouldn’t have had more kids.

@Ravingstarfish Could you possibly expand on your message a little to clarify how your post is supposed to help or advise the OP in any way shape or form? Many thanks

I didn’t mean it to come across like it has done. I’m a parent of a difficult child, he was excluded from school at 5 years old and in my opinion if ds was that bad op wouldn’t have had more kids due to life being so difficult with ds.
So maybe op is at the end of her tether and is only remembering the difficult times when in reality maybe ds wasn’t as bad as she remembers and this difficult time will pass too.

Don’t call the police on him- I think that will make things much worse very quickly. He is still a child and I guess he knows you feel this way about him deep down and it’s a vicious cycle. I think a course in managing difficult behaviour is Definitely a good idea but not the police- nothing he has done signals that is needed at fhis stage.

You have my every sympathy.
Ds1 has broken me before.
I found no support anywhere, despite promises.

Before you call the police give him one last chance. Tell him that you need to protect your children. Tell him that he and he alone is capable of not doing these terrible things. Write down your expectations advising that you will call both the police and social services if he chooses to not behave. Put the emphasis on him and his choices.

I have a friend with a son with PDA and ADHD. He is 8 and he is medicated to stop the anger

LOL at Iggly "my kid did that this one time. I'm such a great parent that I figured it out and then boom! He didn't do it anymore"

Like the OP hasn't spent the last decade and a bit trying to work him out.

It sounds horrendous. And relentless. You must be so worn down with it all. Family therapy might be a good idea, as would a psychiatrist rather than a counsellor? If you have the ability to go private, especially when you move, that would be very good.

My DS1 has ASD and traits of PDA. Tbh I can imagine him becoming like this when he is older. I hope the move brings some change (and perhaps that military school should be kept in the back pocket if the move changes nothing).

OP I have absolutely no advice unfortunately. You have and are still doing all the right things you can think of to try and address the situation.

Just wanted to send you a virtual hug. You must be exhausted and at your wits end after years of difficult times with no end in sight.

When you ever start to doubt yourself and wonder if it’s you, look to you other children and remember that it isn’t. You haven’t created 4 monsters, the other 3 children are doing just fine.

Sadly, some children are very hard to love for some stages in their lives. I admire your strength to keep going.

OP: unsurprisingly you have been failed (and so has your DS) by professionals you have asked for help. You need to become a nightmare for all the services - push push push to protect your other children. I got my DD's CAMHS appointments by ringing every week and asking where we were on the list, whose list were we on etc. There's a 2 year waiting list for assessment in some areas and you definitely need some sort of crisis intervention now.

This from Family Lives seems to describe your situation, and recommends every charity and public sector source of help there is, including calling the police, social services, taking a view from Young Minds' parents helpline and using FL own helpline:

www.familylives.org.uk/advice/teenagers/behaviour/teen-violence-at-home/

Please get on the phone tomorrow; I can't see how you can take your son to live abroad with all this going on.

Call the police

At 15 he knows the difference between right and wrong even if he were to have undiagnosed ADHD.
Taking away his xbox is not gunna teach someone who threatens you with a screwdriver, a lesson

You’ve got other kids to think of and so I think the police would be the best option

The history sounds typical of adhd/odd, particularly the early childhood symptoms.

I would ditch the counsellor. They shouldn't be completely excluding the parent, even if conversations with the child are confidential. You don't know what neurological processes are behind your teen's behaviour, right now, and there's a danger that this counsellor (qualifications and experience?) isn't really equipped to deal with what is really there so is in danger of further entrenching the violent behaviour if your ds somehow takes away from these sessions that he's justified in despising his siblings and believes it's your fault.

I’m so so sorry OP this sounds horrific. Personally I think boarding school is a good idea. I don’t care if it’s not the best thing for him, it will be better for your other children. There comes a point where you need to put them first.

So we gave in. I regretted it pretty quickly. I have it now and it's not coming back

Is he allowed to earn things back?

What do people think the police will do ? I would avoid it at all costs,it will give him amunition to kick off further.

He sounds so unhappy. What does he say to you after he's threatened/exploded?

Pop over to the teenager thread, op

Hi there. I'm a doctor and highly recommend getting your son to see a GP and get referred to a psychiatrist asap.

This behaviour comes across like a psychopaths. Obviously can not diagnose but he needs a doctor not a counsellor!!

If he has PDA would a military style boarding school be the best place for him?

This sounds like a situation my friend was in. She has 6 children and the oldest was an absolute nightmare. He regularly attacked his siblings, attacked his step dad and threatened to attack his mother on several occasions. He was just out of control. The older he got the worse he got. It got so bad that one night his mother was left with no other option but to call the police and he was arrested. Pretty sure he was only 14 at the time. After that he got some help and you wouldn't recognise him today, he's a completely different person.
If you feel like your other children or/and yourself are in danger I would absolutely call the police! It sounds like you are not getting enough support which is not only letting you down bit also your son. I hope you get support and quick!

My son is similar. He is on fluoxetine and Adderall. We have not ruled out boarding school for him, however. In fact I'm currently exploring this right now. His behaviour has lead me to consider suicide and destroyed our lives.