Ds1 is a nasty piece of work

[Cobblersandhogwash]

He's nearly 15.

He tells dd who is 12 to fuck off regularly. At least twice a day.

He wakes up ds3 who is 6 by poking his finger in his ear and scaring him.

He's just hurt ds2 who 9 by kneeling on his head.

He's super bright. Super selfish. Super vicious.

He smashed up his bedroom, his sister's bedroom and smashed in three doors.

We confiscate his gadgets. We penalise him by taking money from him.

He's having counselling. This is his 3rd counsellor. The others said there's nothing wrong with him.

But I'm not allowed to tell the counsellor any of this stuff as it's interfering in the confidentiality of their relationship. It's up to ds1 to tell the counsellor. As if he would.

I don't like him. I don't think I love him. His personality is so deeply unattractive.

Meanwhile, my other three children have to grow up in fear of this vindictive bully.

My family is screwed.

This is terrifying. One person does not trump an entire family . You somehow need to get him removed from the home. He is toxic to your other DC. Contact gp, SS , police and anyone till this is resolved.

We cannot have any tech even though he pesters and badgers and tries to get hold of it. He doesn't have the psychopathy part, he only attacks/lashes out when he doesn't get his way, but the tech was a major trigger. My son has HFA, OCD and ADHD. CAMHS was useless. I had to go abroad to get him to a psychiatrist.

If he's well behaved at school and places other than home, it can't be autism. You can't turn autism off, it's part of who you are 24/7. I have a severely autistic son.

Gosh, I feel for you op. You says he's always been like this, only now you have the addition of teenage hormones added to the mix.

I think can self refer yourself to social workers, someone will ask - first and foremost, is there a child in danger. The answer will be yes, your other DC. I found this on the Social Services website:

www.familylives.org.uk/advice/primary/behaviour/challenging-behaviour/

Good luck op. I feel for you, I really do 💐💐💐

Ps. I understand that this is a free helpline, but I'd google and check. They seem to be what you are looking for.

Also from their site: www.familylives.org.uk/advice/teenagers/behaviour/teen-violence-at-home/

Hi there. I'm a doctor and highly recommend getting your son to see a GP and get referred to a psychiatrist asap

This behaviour comes across like a psychopaths. Obviously can not diagnose but he needs a doctor not a counsellor!

Good grief

Swordofgriffyndor if you were a doctor you would know that psychopathy is a diagnosis that is never given in the UK to anyone under the age of 18.

You are I think the 6th person on this thread who has "diagnosed" a 14 year old with psychopathy on the grounds that he told his sister to fuck off, put his finger in a brothers ear, knelt on someone, and argued with his mother in a "throwing my weight around" way about tech. It is absolutely irresponsible and if you really are a doctor then I am exceptionally glad you are not mine.

oooh I take issue with ruling out autism on the basis of him behaving in other contexts - HFAs are quite able to mask outside the home seahorseshoe. My DN with ADHD is also much worse at home to his mum than to others.

I don't think tech consumption is good for a LOT of kids but it's certainly poison for my two, and immediately leads to bad behaviour, it is one area where you need to stay firm.

Yes swordofgriffyndor I smell rubbish, no psychiatrist would diagnose a psychopath over the internet. Many conditions are worse at home than in other contexts due to keeping things bottled until you get home.

My siblings and my DH's are all psychopaths as are my DDs based on this 'evidence' except none of them are.

If he's well behaved at school and places other than home, it can't be autism. You can't turn autism off, it's part of who you are 24/7.

This simply isn't true. Masking is a very well-known phenomenon in autism.

Why can he not stay at his state boarding school, especially if it suits him? Awful time to move education system and friendship groups.

This is terrifying. One person does not trump an entire family . You somehow need to get him removed from the home. He is toxic to your other DC. Contact gp, SS , police and anyone till this is resolved.

This.
Op, you need him away for the sake of your other children. His behaviour is escalating and the fear is damaging your children.

An unhappy child is gross minimisation of what is going on here. He's abusive and violent. I feel for you and your other children, op.

I also think your husband should be with you more than just weekends. Your son is frankly out of control and pushing boundaries every chance he gets

oooh I take issue with ruling out autism on the basis of him behaving in other contexts - HFAs are quite able to mask outside the home seahorseshoe

That's my experience too,I agree.

Domestic violence doesn't have to come from a partner

are you going to take on board any advice op?
get some family therapy?
some parenting help?
no point in labelling him if you dont seek any behavior help for yourself as well

If he's well behaved at school and places other than home, it can't be autism. You can't turn autism off, it's part of who you are 24/7.

my children, both HFA, are both impecable at school and my daughter, with the PDA is also absolutely unspottable in social situations

The more high functioning and socially self aware they are (and yes, autistic people CAN be socially aware and self aware) the more likely to mask, and the more likely that this is absolutely exhausting for them and that they will have their meltdowns in a safe place. Often the meltdowns can be held off for a certain extent, they are not always an immediate response to a trigger. But thats exhausting and hugely stressfull. Keeping it together when you feel like just running or screaming, but you are aware that you do not want to draw attention to yourself, or lose it in front of your peer group, is awful. Carrying that with you until you are safe, or just being so overwhelmed and having to try to carry on like normal is mentally draining. It can take only a tiny thing at home for all that frustration to come out

I imagine op has been terrified by the 'helpful' suggestions he has psychopathic tendencies. I hope she's finding family counselling and better help than the counsellor she's got. Most of us seem to think perhaps the previous assessment missed something, that's not uncommon.

Hard to get help quickly though isn't it? I tend to find it takes months where you are telling them that increasingly worse things are happening (CAMHS, GPs etc) and they are powerless.

Or hopefully she posted on the teens/SEN areas.

This counselling sounds like an absolute waste of time, if he is just able to manipulate the process. Most counsellors do not have the training to deal with personality disorders imo.

Bottom line is, nobody has the right to abuse hurt or intimidate any other person and 'their secret suffering' does NOT trump this, ever. He needs consequences.

He also needs you his mother to stop being so wet. Why are you not communicating with the school, documenting his behaviour at home, every ear poke, violent act, recording his verbal abuse and communicating this to the counsellor, mentioning that he never does this with his father or at school? This is NOT normal. It is not good for him or the counsellor to get away with manipulation.

Whether he is a psychopath or not, his abusive and manipulative behaviour is not acceptable. Military boarding school sounds like a very good idea to get him away from the family dynamic and to protect your other children.

I think you should go in to the GP, fix him in the eye, tell him you are having serious and genuine problems with the abusive and manipulative behaviour of your son and the you need to be referred to a psychiatrist. Your husbands new job must come with medical insurance - use it!

personality disorders /psychopathy and HFA meltdowns and behaviour can all look very similar to an outsider.
Personality disorders are related to trauma/abusive/neglected childhood/terrible parenting. They are a stress response and a child acting in a defensive way in survival mode. The fact that the OP hasnt mentioned any such situation, or a trigger point at 2 means the autism scenario should be investigated BY SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS PDA because PDA is autism with exceptionally high functioning, many of the usual signs are missing, but is driven by extreme anxiety.
www.pdasociety.org.uk/resources
www.pdaresource.com/

the fact this behaviour started at 2, and the fact that the other 2 children do not behave in the same way, really suggests a developmental condition rather than a parenting situation. Does DS1 have a different dad? Did something happen at age 2?

No child is born bad. No child is born a psychopath.There is a reason for the behaviour

consequences wont work with PDA to be honest.
however there are techniques and ways to reduce the anxiety levels right down to a normal, controllable level where it is possible for the child to be able to learn acceptable behaviour, especially around hurting other people.

Relying passively on the state (SS, CAHMS etc) is a complete waste of time.

Go private. We invest so much in our children, just budget for the £1,000 or whatever for a truly proper intervention. But I am pretty sure your DH new job comes with insurance.

"No child is born a psychopath"

Not true AT ALL. Psychopathy is wired into the brain and can be latent or triggered environmentally. 1 in 25 people is a sociopath.

Too much wokeness here and it is not helping this mother! @Nettletea, he is NOT anxious. Why is nobody listening to her?

"He wakes up ds3 who is 6 by poking his finger in his ear and scaring him.

He's just hurt ds2 who 9 by kneeling on his head.

He's super bright. Super selfish. Super vicious.

He smashed up his bedroom, his sister's bedroom and smashed in three doors.

He's having counselling. This is his 3rd counsellor. The others said there's nothing wrong with him.

But I'm not allowed to tell the counsellor any of this stuff as it's interfering in the confidentiality of their relationship. It's up to ds1 to tell the counsellor. As if he would.
... His personality is so deeply unattractive.

Meanwhile, my other three children have to grow up in fear of this vindictive bully. "

THIS IS NOT ANXIETY. But I do see a lack of consequences (which is why I told her to stop being so wet)

I don't think Master#1 would like AT ALL to be subjected to the searching questions of a psychiatrist (and not some stupid counsellor with their cornflakes packet diploma)

and to be taken around military boarding schools - "which one did you like best, Darling?" - with the CLEAR knowledge that this is the consequence for laying hands on his brothers and sisters and 'smashing things up'.

It might get him to use his considerable intelligence to stop and think a bit.

Oh god I totally despair. Newsflash for MN psychopaths exist, they are pretty common. They are not autistic. The can wreak havoc on ordinary family life. They can be (not all) extremely dangerous. They can be a significant risk. It is absolutely frustrating to read again and again people dismissing this issue because they are in denial or simply have no experience of it.

I was sexually abused (as were other family members) by my, yes I suspect psychopathic brother whose behaviour escalated over the years in the manner the OP describes. The OP needs to protect her other children and respond to her eldest son’s behaviour at the same time. The fact that he is fooling counsellor after counsellor means there are few avenues open to the OP because it sounds like he is well able to mask his behaviours. She does not need to throw him out yet, she does not need to stop trying to make things better for him, these things are not mutually exclusive but she does need to put the physical safety and well-being of her other children first because he is physically and emotionally abusing them.

I was sexually abused (as were other family members) by my, yes I suspect psychopathic brother whose behaviour escalated over the years in the manner the OP describes

Not diagnosed then,just you suspect?

(Very sorry for what you went through)

I was going to say ASD the more I read about it the more I see a link between babies that don’t sleep and autism & from my personal experience with my children, I hope you can find some answers to help you all - it must be so hard x

it doesnt matter what he has, what matters is how you cope and how he copes, how you all manage

@ScreamingLadySutch thank you for your post.

I'm being so wet? That's kind. I’m not sure that these kinds of descriptions are helpful really.

You don't know me otherwise you wouldn't describe me as "wet".

I've informed the school several times about the difficulties we have with him at home so that they have a full picture of what he’s like. What are they supposed to do about it?

He's been suspended once from school for fighting a boy who was bothering him. And had two weeks worth of detentions for damaging another boy's property in retaliation to his own property being damaged. The school had our full support with regards to these punishments.

Yes, I think he has pulled the wool over the counsellors eyes. He isn't honest with them.

We have been to the GP so many times. One described his behaviour as normal sibling jealousy.

I have to now physically square up to him every single time I confiscate a gadget. That’s not wet. I’m 6ft tall and he’s nearly as tall as me.

Could you do that? Face down a strong, angry boy who is prepared to handle a screwdriver and wave about in your face? I wonder.

When he trashed his bedroom and his sister’s bedroom, I took £100 from his bank account. Every time he damages something in the house, I take money from him. Every time he tells his sister to fuck off, I do the same. That’s not wet.

The point is nothing works.

Not the police coming over. Not counselling. Not school suspension. Not taking money. Not confiscating gadgets. Nothing.

So now I will investigate what our private health insurance covers in terms of psychiatric care.

But please, lay off the insults.