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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How much porn is okay?

231 replies

wantobeamum · 19/07/2019 15:44

Strange title I know! But seriously, I know my husband is somehow finding the time and the space to be able to watch porn on his phone because embarrassingly we were at his parents house and I had to google something and went to type on his phone and the first thing in the search bar was porn-related so from there felt the urge to look at his history and BAM! I think it's ok for a guy to watch some porn but how much is too much and when does it become not ok?

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Deathgrip · 20/07/2019 12:44

I suspect the eyebrows will arch rather less.

You seem to think you’re talking to a bunch of silly, prudish women who have no experience of the thing they’re arguing against.

You would be mistaken, and you would suspect incorrectly.

I have already explained how I was personally abused and assaulted by a porn addict (not just one actually, but that’s a longer story). After that I sought support from support groups, organisations, abuse charities, all sorts really. I encountered former porn users a plenty, all of whom had a wake up call at some point or other.

I’ve spoken to probably thousands of women who’ve been in relationships with frequent porn users and the list of issues range from what may seem trivial to the truly terrifying. This tends to be the pattern:

  • Unrealistic expectations of real life sex
  • Unrealistic opinion of their own sexual performance
  • Unrealistic expectations of what arouses women and how they should respond to sexual touch
  • Increasingly more aroused by porn than real life sex
  • Delayed ejaculation, inability to ejaculate via any means other than masturbation
  • Increasing erectile dysfunction
  • Needs sexual novelty to maintain arousal
  • Starts requesting niche sexual acts as part of regular sex
  • Starts pushing aggressive acts without seeking consent
  • Emotional blackmail / coercion / gaslighting to varying degrees
  • Physical and sexual assault

This isn’t one experience, this is a repeated pattern of behaviour.

And you’ve been banging on about how women just don’t like sex all that much, yet you believe there are thousands of women who have plenty of options but choose to have sex for a few hundred quid (if they’re lucky) because they just love it so much?

Like I said. Naive.

MhysaMhysa · 20/07/2019 12:51

Speaking for myself, I would derive very little pleasure from paying a prostitute to engage in sex acts with me. Use of porn is a substitute**

Ok, but it's not about your pleasure.... the fact is there is another human being involved whether in porn or prostitution, who is selling their body, for reasons and in conditions unknown to you. Porn is basically prostitution on camera , so really not seeing how it's leap to make comparisons?

By romantic porn do you mean soft porn? I googled but don't particularly want to watch, esp considering the third search option that came up was 'romantic fuck ends up with a mouthful of cum' Hmm

lovesmarties · 20/07/2019 12:55

That would depend entirely on the definition of 'ethical'.

The adult film industry is legal and regulated. I like US and British mainstream productions. That'll do for me.

lovesmarties · 20/07/2019 13:07

^- Unrealistic expectations of real life sex

  • Unrealistic opinion of their own sexual performance
  • Unrealistic expectations of what arouses women and how they should respond to sexual touch
  • Increasingly more aroused by porn than real life sex
  • Delayed ejaculation, inability to ejaculate via any means other than masturbation
  • Increasing erectile dysfunction
  • Needs sexual novelty to maintain arousal
  • Starts requesting niche sexual acts as part of regular sex
  • Starts pushing aggressive acts without seeking consent
  • Emotional blackmail / coercion / gaslighting to varying degrees
  • Physical and sexual assault ^

All undeniably terrible. None applies to me. Please don't tell me that I can't use porn, because some men and women experience significant negative consequences from its misuse. The same goes for alcohol consumption.

DtPeabodysLoosePants · 20/07/2019 13:15

Male entitlement and misogyny coming through loud and clear.

Deathgrip · 20/07/2019 13:42

The issue is that it’s so normalised that you are arguing that men are physically incapable of having a decent wank without it, and you’re so delusional that you think porn being presented as “romantic” is free from coercion, substance abuse issues, mental health issues etc.

Did you ever see the Louis Theroux documentary about porn? And then his return later, after one of the overly confident, fully pro-porn male stars committed suicide?

Porn is toxic, for those involved and for those watching.

lovesmarties · 20/07/2019 13:51

it’s so normalised that you are arguing that men are physically incapable of having a decent wank without it

No, I didn't say that. It's a facilitator. I can walk 20 mins to the supermarket and carry my shopping home. Or I can go in the car and speed up the process.

SimonArch1983 · 20/07/2019 14:31

The only person who can decide what a "decent" wank is, is the person having the wank.

PicsInRed · 20/07/2019 14:47

I can walk 20 mins to the supermarket and carry my shopping home or I can go in the car and speed up the process.

No, it's the equivalent of either walking on your own 2 legs or having troubled, desperate, abused and coerced persons damage their bodies in order to carry you to that shop in a fucking sedan chair. 🧐

lovesmarties · 20/07/2019 14:57

This reply has been deleted

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Birdie6 · 20/07/2019 15:03

It's a big zero from me. I hate and detest it because of the way it objectifies women. If DH was watching it I'd be gone.

pinkunicornsparkles · 20/07/2019 15:04

I know my husband watches porn. I don't care.

I watch porn. He doesn't care.

I'll admit I didn't know the extent of the whole ethical thing though. It puts me off watching myself. If he continues, I won't regulate it.

PicsInRed · 20/07/2019 15:18

Now you're really turning me on.

Flattering, but it's a no from me.

Deathgrip · 20/07/2019 15:34

Shocking the way these conversations always go the same way, with men who’ve literally never thought beyond “tits good, vagina good, fucking good” before.

smarties Picture a young woman, someone’s daughter, sister, niece etc. She is 19. She has a young child, no child maintenance or support, difficulty affording food and unstable housing. She develops health issues, she lives in America and has no health insurance. She’s offered $300 to have sex on camera. She hates every second but a couple of jobs allows her to rent a small flat. Some days she’s doing tame stuff and making $100 but her agent tells her she can make $1000 in a day on a different project. They don’t tell her what’s involved really. Things happen and her cries of distress and pain are ignored, edited out. She needs medical treatment for her injuries. Next day she goes back to her softcore stuff, suffering from PTSD. Every day of work destroys her a bit more, whatever she’s filming. She becomes addicted to prescription painkillers, then street drugs when her doctor cuts her off. She has to keep working to pay for the drugs, and she has to take the drugs in order to work. She tells everyone she loves her job. You don’t bite the hand that pays for your drugs.

Sound fantastical? This is a real woman, someone I met while active in online support groups for victims of porn addiction. Worse, her story wasn’t even close to unique, more like the norm.

You’re happy exploiting women like that so you can have a slightly better wank.

pinkunicornsparkles · 20/07/2019 15:46

@Deathgrip
This is going to sound not how I mean it. But..

If it wasn't for porn, how else would that woman have managed to afford that first rent?

I agree what you've described terrible and awful but what other option is there?

Deathgrip · 20/07/2019 15:57

pink that’s the mindset of someone wanting to excuse something because they enjoy it, and it’s easier. Would you say the same if people were being physically tortured for money? Homeless people being paid to star in videos where their teeth are ripped out, where they have physical fights, lose a limb? Because what else can they do to make cash?

Social housing. Women’s shelters. Food banks. Charities. Any and all better options than what happens to these desperate women.

I’m sure there are a few female porn stars who really are in it for the love of it, or have multiple other options for making money but freely choose this. You must know logically that this isn’t the case for all, or most. When you’re watching porn, how do you know?

lovesmarties · 20/07/2019 16:02

An interesting take on the topic, from the Independent, which seems to indicate that women in the regulated adult entertainmnet business are not typically the victims that they are claimed to be:

^Female porn stars are psychologically as healthy or healthier than other women, according to a new study, which challenges widely held views about women in the adult entertainment business.

Adult entertainers were found to have higher self-esteem, a better quality of life and body image, and to be more positive, with greater levels of spirituality. They also had higher levels of sexual satisfaction and, perhaps unsurprisingly, many more partners than other women.

The American researchers, who report their findings in the Journal of Sex Research, said they found no evidence to support the "damaged goods hypothesis" that actresses involved in the porn industry come from desperate backgrounds and are less psychologically healthy compared with typical women.

"Some descriptions of actresses in pornography have included attributes such as drug addiction, homelessness, poverty, desperation and being victims of sexual abuse," they said. "Some have made extreme assertions, such as claiming that all women in pornography were sexually abused as children. Stereotypes of those involved in adult entertainment have been used to support or condemn the industry and to justify political views on pornography, although the actual characteristics of actresses are unknown because no study on this group of women has been conducted."

The psychologists compared data taken from 177 adult entertainment actresses with a sample of women matched for age, marital status and other factors. The actresses, all of whom had been paid to work on at least one X-rated movie, ranged in age from 18 to 50, with an average career in the industry of 3.5 years. More than one-third were either married or in a serious relationship, and 44 per cent were single.

One of the main claims by commentators on the industry has been that actresses have frequently experienced sexual abuse in childhood, but the results show no statistically significant difference between the two groups of women.

The study also shows that the actresses sleep better and have more energy. Almost 70 per cent gave enjoyment of sex full marks, compared with 33 per cent of the other women; and they had first had sex at a lower age: 15 rather than 17. On the negative side, industry workers had a history of more drug and alcohol use, and problems possibly linked to sensation-seeking personalities. The study was undertaken by researchers at Shippensburg University, Texas Woman's University and the Adult Industry Medical Healthcare Foundation.

Cynthia Graham, senior lecturer in health psychology at Southampton University, said: "This study really challenges views about women who engage in sex work and the porn industry. Although the study had limitations, it is one of very few that has included matched controls."

The feminist commentator Dawn Foster criticised the study: "It is dangerous to generalise about a huge industry: women who are successful and in control of their careers in one pocket don't speak for women in the less scrutinised parts. The study's main objective seems to be to prove that not all women in porn are exploited: no one has argued that. But glossing over the exploitative aspects helps no one."^

www.independent.co.uk/news/science/porn-stars-and-the-naked-truth-8348388.html

SimonArch1983 · 20/07/2019 16:02

Sob stories, everyone's got one! I'll file this next to the stuff I should probably give a shit about but ultimately I'll do nothing to address.

MhysaMhysa · 20/07/2019 16:12

Sob stories, everyone's got one!

Sorry, but that's just a disgusting way to talk about someone. But of course you won't do anything, I mean who cares about one desperate woman as long as you can have a wank right.....

women who are successful and in control of their careers in one pocket don't speak for women in the less scrutinised parts. The study's main objective seems to be to prove that not all women in porn are exploited: no one has argued that. But glossing over the exploitative aspects helps no one."

This is what pp on this thread have been saying though, that just because there may be women who aren't being exploited, there is no way to tell which ones have or haven't. Focusing on the ones who haven't isn't going to help anyone.

SimonArch1983 · 20/07/2019 16:24

Who REALLY cares about anyone else? I tried giving a shit about all sorts of causes, but I realised all the care in the world won't change a God damn thing. Nothing will ever change. Once brexit kicks in the only work left will be in the adult sector.

PicsInRed · 20/07/2019 16:28

If it wasn't for porn, how else would that woman have managed to afford that first rent?

We outlawed the trade in human organs for the same reason.

Deathgrip · 20/07/2019 16:45

Who REALLY cares about anyone else? I tried giving a shit about all sorts of causes, but I realised all the care in the world won't change a God damn thing

Shockingly I do.

Yes, saying you care but doing fuck all about it changes nothing. You could of course do something about it.

And nice confirmation bias there, smarties.

SimonArch1983 · 20/07/2019 16:52

Which will ultimately achieve nothing.

pinkunicornsparkles · 20/07/2019 21:05

My issue is though, not all porn stars are being abused/raped/trafficked. There are some who genuinely love their job, consent to it all, love the money and the fame that comes with it.

For me it's like saying there are women are being raped and abused all over the place, let's stop sex all together.

pinkunicornsparkles · 20/07/2019 21:12

See attached

How much porn is okay?
How much porn is okay?
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