DH thought I was being inappropriate with our kid. WTF?

[vivariumvivariumsvivaria]

Fuck off, DM

DS is 11, a cuddly, affectionate, attention seeking youngest of three.

DH is, I think, on the spectrum. He does not need physical affection, or any affection, and this is impacting our marriage which has been limping along for a decade - because I find living without affection or physical touch a challenge.

Tonight, all 5 of us were in the same room. DH was playing cards with the older two, DS11 was lying next to me on a small settee. I stroked his tummy, DH said "please don't do that, it makes me uncomfortable" "what?" "it looks like you are masturbating him"

I am a bit lost. And, also, fuck off, Daily Mail.

Have spoken to each of the 3 kids to say if I, or anyone else, did anything that made them uncomfortable or scared they have to tell - and that I don't care who they tell, but, they have to tell someone. They all said "its just dad, he doesn't get it". They love him and understand him, and accept that he's a bit "quirky".

Nevertheless, my husband just accused me of being a paedophile.

There are some situations from which there is no going back in a marriage. And, I think this probably is one.

Anyone with insight into whether a man with aspergers might misinterpret a mothers' touch to her 11 year old kid? I KNOW that people on the spectrum does not equal dick head, I know that. It's what has been holding our marriage together for so long - my continual efforts to understand and accommodate his (undiagnosed) way of seeing the world.

I suppose that if this comment is not rationally explained by a clumsiness of social interaction then our marriage is fucked.

Suggestions of ways forward from this?

My best friend happens to be male. We are both straight, both have had partners at various times over the friendship that has lasted nearly 40 years now. We hug every time we meet both at hello and goodbye. He will often stroke my back, and I will rest my head on his shoulder, as these are both comforting things.

But as platonic friends it's unlikely that you'd lie on the sofa stroking his abdomen I think. Because that's not within the normal boundaries of touching for non sexual relationships. You surely are aware that where we touch other people differs according to relationship?

As parents cuddling and stroking is normal but I still think that stroking a pubescent or just prepubescent boy on the abdomen is potentially inappropriate. Is it ok if it's just Mum? Dad too? What about uncle? Mum's brother who she adores and would never harm her children. What about step dad whom she also adores and trusts?

Lying in bed with a 15 year old reading stories and hair stroking is bizarre and intense.

Is it ok with a 15 year old girl?

I’ve been on numerous threads like this in my time on mn, with parents asking if it’s appropriate to walk around naked in front of their children / sleep with their children / their children to sleep with one another / their children to walk around naked.

OP’s thread isn’t about the action but the words used so I didn’t dwell on it. However, I think - have always thought - there’s something odd about the faux naivety people come up with to describe these sorts of situations. Defensive comments like Well what age is is OK to cuddle my son then and Am I allowed to cuddle and rest my head on my platonic male friends shoulder

As adults, we set our own boundaries (although I hope said platonic male friend is single ) Children can’t do that. They need to have boundaries set by adults.

The ‘MN’ view, if you like, is that anything goes unless the child says otherwise. I’ve read some posts on here over the years (like the mum cuddling and hair stroking her 15 year old to sleep) about children aged 10, 11, 12 bath sharing and bed sharing and anyone who says ‘actually that’s not appropriate’ is pretty much told they have a dirty mind.

I tend to see things differently. I think incest is rare. I hope it is! I don’t think children tend to try to experiment sexually with each other or their parents UNLESS they are very troubled - which does happen. The problem is with boundaries. Once those boundaries are blurred it’s very difficult to teach children what’s appropriate and what isn’t. If children have grown up sharing a bath, a bed, having their tummies stroked, hair caressed - these are all things that are extremely intimate and intense and after a certain age, not quite appropriate.

For those who mourn this fact and think it’s sad, it isn’t. Teaching children privacy of their bodies doesn’t mean they lose their innocence. It’s actually the opposite - they retain their innocence for longer as a result of good parenting involving privacy and boundaries.

Sorry OP, I’ve drifted away from your point. I think your DH had every right to raise his discomfort in what he presumably saw as an overly intimate act. I think the way he went about it was wrong and I hope the two of you can reach a resolution.

It was inappropriate and worrying for your H to say that in front of your children. In fact he was the one who crossed boundaries and has poisoned that moment.

Disgusting man.

I agree that he wasn't accusing you, it was just that the innocent act triggered an uncomfortable mental association for the 'look' of it and he thus felt uncomfortable - because he isn't a paedophile and so didn't like the association if that mental image and you/his son.

As a girl, were you ever taught that it is "polite" or "ladylike" to break off short pieces of banana before eating them, as opposed to peeling the fruit and sticking the end in your mouth? That is exactly the same thing - the full-banana way is only "unladylike"/some people wince at little girls especially doing it entirely innocently, because it can superficially resemble oral sex to adults - not to the child eating fruit, and not intentionally, but as an unwanted association to the overall "look".

Perhaps your DH was inappropriately touched as a child and it raises uncomfortable memories for him. This could explain his innapropriate sexualised reaction to what sounds like a loving mum cuddling her child. This could also explain his aversion to physical touch. Sometimes abuse memories surface like this even if there's no clear conscious memory of the event.

Um ... really sorry to say this ...

OP, I think stroking the stomach of an 11 year old boy might start to get a bit boundary crossing.

If you were stroking his back or ribs no biggie, but stomachs when puberty is starting to come up is possibly a bit intimate?

It is not something I would have done with my 11 year old boys tbh

Lying in bed with a 15 year old reading stories and hair stroking is bizarre and intense.

It's really neither of those things.

And I don't know about stroking to sleep. He's gone to sleep on his own since was tiny.

Was it weird and intense to lie in bed reading to my poor demented mum and stroking her hair?

Screaming I agree with you. Odd.

I agree with you MrsBertBibby. Don't let MN ransoms make you feel there's something wrong with it. When we go on holiday and my 16 year old has the option of his own room he'd rather choose an air bed and share with me and his sister as he says it's more of a laugh. He's right.

randoms not ransoms

Carol fine but would you lie there stroking his stomach?

Carols son is 16 not 11 ffs
11 is still young and op. Says he’s a young 11

Jesus some people on here.

The thing is OP when you're done you're done. You want and need to get this sort of crap from him out of your life. That's all you need to know really. Try and keep it amicable for the kids and crack on is my advice.

He has taken the kids to the day out we were all planning and looking forward to, I told them I was staying here because I am upset and likely to say something I regret

Why did you spoil your kids' day out? And why did you involve them in your spat, by telling "them", not just him?

You are making this into a big deal for your kids. They had the sense to shrug it off at the time, but you are making it into a thing for them. That's unfair, and WILL make them withdraw physically from you, if you're not careful.

He has what I think are "meltdowns" where he withdraws, soemtimes for weeks.

That’s not an ASD meltdown. At all. It’s just stonewalling. He’s punishing you with silence and withdrawal. It’s technique of abuse.

I cant really see the issue bar you dh mentioning masturbating in front of your children. He just said it makes him uncomfortable because it looks like that's what your doing. He didn't say it's what he thinks you're doing. I think you've blown this out of all proportion

,

Yes that's abuse

You are so totally over the top, he did not accuse you of being a paedophile

I agree with you mostly but why do you keep saying he accused you of being a paedophile? He didn't.

You sound very over the top and irrational, if you want to end the relationship just end it, don't keep claiming he is autistic when you don't even know and comparing him to NT people. For someone with an autistic child, it's hard to read that autism in an adult = this weird bollocks.

@TatianaLarina I disagree that staying silent can’t be an autistic protection mechanism.
When overwhelmed that’s what H (and dc2) does. Because he needs silence to recoup. Because he is worried. About exploding and saying the wrong thing. Because he is in a downward spiral of anxiety.

And yes from the other side, it feels EA. But I found it’s not done with the intent to hurt. But rather as a coping mechanism

@MrMakersFartyParty as a mum, can you imagine your dc as an adult? They are a high achieving functioning adult with autism.
Except they were born 50 years ago and weren’t diagnosed.

What would you want for them? Someone expecting them to act as NT always, no leeway? After all they aren’t diagnosed.
Or for their partner to wonder and try and understand their behaviour? To make an ‘armchair diagnosis’ so they can implement things to help them, lettting go off some expectations in the process etc...
What do you think would be kinder?

Not all autistic people are diagnosed.

And living with someone with autism can be hard work. There is no escaping that.

It’s not a ‘meltdown’ though.

ASD types can certainly withdraw to protect themselves... but for weeks...? Hmmm.. she doesn’t say that he’s anxious during those periods... in this circumstance I’m not convinced.

@MrsBertBibby WTAFFFFFF? FIFTEEN YEARS OLD??? You lie in bed with your 15 year old young adult son and stroke him? What the he'll were you reading to him? I had my own flat at 15! Christ on a bike that's disturbing stuff. Poor man is going to have boundary issues for the rest of his life