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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Just another MN cynic or are these red flags?

365 replies

Strawberryblondereally · 15/06/2019 18:56

NC’d. Divorced 2 years ago and have been dating with various success. Met my DP 10 weeks ago and have been overwhelmed by my feelings....He has been everything I could have hoped for. We have seen each other most days since meeting initially if even just for a coffee during lunch, the sex is the best I’ve ever had, we have so much in common and he makes me smile so much....

I’m a MN veteran and have read about narcissists and the like over the years so am quite attuned to the signs....I haven’t wanted my DP to meet my DC yet as I thought it a bit early but he was very keen from the off. He has DC too. It was my DC bday and I’d mentioned in passing to him that I’d forgotten to pick her up cupcakes and an hour later he turned up at my house unannounced and delivered 48 Lola’s cupcakes. My DC opened the door to him....it was all quite awkward and I didn’t know what to do....now I know this was a generous act but I stressed that I didn’t want him meeting my DC yet and he just totally ignored it....when I confronted him later about it he accused me of being shut off as a result of my marriage breakdown....I’m not at all and my marriage ended amicably....

I’ve spoken to friends and they say he has red flags everywhere which I’ve probably just ignored to be frank....he’s lavished me with expensive gifts, taken me to fancy restaurants, holidays etc all in 10 weeks which I thought was just generosity but my friends think is alarming....he’s also talking about us living together and getting married this year which sounds ridiculously soon to me but each time I say that he gets really upset and accuses me of not loving him....

Am I being cynical here? Might this guy just be a gudun and I’m allowing my paranoia to creep in?

OP posts:
janetheimpaler · 18/06/2019 09:52

I don't think that Gruzinbell 1 sounds mean. That was an apt post and she is trying to open op eyes to save her from the dire consequences of going forward with this man. I have never been so frightened for someone. Strawberry maybe you should discuss this with a relationship counsellor? Take what time you need to explore the relationship with a professional. If he wants you he should have the discipline to allow you what time you need to do this. This way you could ensure that if you go forward that you do so in a healthy way. After all finding your partner and being happy with them should be joyous and as it is this will be anything but.

Plipplopbop · 18/06/2019 13:54

Didn't a PP predict he would have a reason for his relationship failure that made him a sympathy figure? Nail and head there PP.

I don't think you're stupid OP, but you DO know deep down this is wrong, or you did when you first posted. Worryingly you seem very much back in his thrall in your later posts. This bloke is a red flag factory, walk away when you can.

AndTheBandPlayedOn · 18/06/2019 14:39

Sorry, only got up to page 5 so far, but had to comment.
He is controlling you at this point. The cupcakes wasn’t a “grand gesture” of him rescuing you for you child’s birthday celebration (well, it was that on the surface). The hidden agenda here was that you would be thinking about him...instead of having your focus where it should be: on your child.
Deliveries to work: same thing- you think about him instead of your work.
Free weekend- ditto- your focus is on him.
Texting ALL the time- same thing- your brain is his . He may not be preventing you from going out with your mates (now) but I can guess he’ll do something to make you think about him while you are out: gifting you an accessory, paid for the outfit, suggested the restaurant. This is already well underway.

The narc in my life was all about “just wanting what was best for me”. Hard to argue on that point but I said I needed xyz-stuff that did not involve them.

The sob stories boo hoo- We all have emotional scars of some sort (it’s not a flippin competition). Suck it up buttercup!

Yes being a single parent is hard- he is taking that to the bank. But you know the splashing cash is superficial. You KNOW this. He is prepaying a coupon you don’t want any part of- there are strings attached no matter what he claims otherwise.

You may end up seeing the single parenting isn’t so bad after all.

AnnaNimmity · 18/06/2019 18:02

well even aside for everything else. If he's only been divorced for 4 years, has had several girlfriends, including a live in one plus a stillbirth, then he's moved pretty fast and that should be enough red flags in itself.

Aside from that, I'm wondering whether it's my ex because it sounds just too similar. Does his name begin with B Op?

(I suspect OP is away from here with her fingers in her ears going "la la la").

Mxyzptlk · 18/06/2019 18:31

I will NOT be introducing him to [my children] again for a long time...:

You didn't introduce him to them already - he pushed in against your wishes.

It sounds like he was completely unsupportive to his previous gf when she had a stillborn child. His main thought was about himself not wanting more children. She'd clearly had enough of him making it all about him by that point.
She's well shot of him and you would be too.

As well as thinking, read up about abusive men, and coercive control.

Guardsman18 · 18/06/2019 18:36

This is so scary. The words that stuck out to me were about him not being able to watch violence in a film or on tv.

The person who beat me up the worst 'hated violence' and couldn't bear to watch it. Yeah ok.

I hope you will listen to the posters here OP. x

Strawberryblondereally · 18/06/2019 19:22

as I’ve said I do appreciate the constructive advice and did want your opinions hence the thread....it does baffle me why posters get so angry though if I don’t listen to every shred of advice they give me....I’ve realised it’s essy being an outsider in these things and not so black and white when you’re in it....

There’s been no contact and I’m not going to follow up with the ex girlfriend....it’s quite an inventive lie if a lie at all but I wouldn’t feel comfortable ‘checking’ the info.

I spent last night reading up on npd and whilst he ticks some of the boxes there are some he doesnt. He hasn’t had loads of jobs....nor loads of girlfriends and just one wife....he’s solvent and is in the process of buying his flat....so he can’t be broke...

it’s not your ex, because he definitely isn’t with anyone else I’ve been to his flat a few times and it’s just him there so he can’t have another girlfriend on the go as there aren’t any signs and you said you contacted his girlfriend well that’s me and I’ve nevr been contacted by anyone....

I’ve done more digging on the social media and it really does seem that he just doesn’t post that much...he hates phones actually..... but doesn’t hide his so that can’t be a negative and just adds more credibility to the lack of social media obsession....
I know you all think I’m dumb but I’m not, I’m not blind because IF I were to be with him I’d be looking out for anything shifty....it has been helpful though because you’ve all shared other bits and pieces I would watch out for...

OP posts:
AnnaNimmity · 18/06/2019 19:26

no, I contacted the last gf - before Christmas actually. I have no idea whether he has one now or not. But it does sound just like like him to me.

My ex lied about jobs, his wife, gfs. Wiped a few jobs and gfs out of his history.

Strawberryblondereally · 18/06/2019 19:38

no don’t think it’s him...I am sorry to everyone who has experienced such bad abuse....and it does make me wonder whether it’s rven worth the risk of seeing if he’s normal....he hasn’t messaged though....and didn’t panic when I said I might contact the ex...

Wonder if they should start teaching about coercive control in schools because there seems to be so many people who have experienced this kind of abuse...

Ps how do you find out if someone has multiple accounts? I can only see he has one when I search his name?

OP posts:
greyrockblock · 18/06/2019 19:43

He's NOT normal. He's proved that several times already. Why are you constantly excusing his abusive actions with his more normal actions? The nice/normal bits don't negate the abusive behaviour. My abuse started out like yours and has ended in years of misery since divorce with every type of abuse in the marriage. He wasn't too bad until I was pregnant and I excused everything. I really do hope you access therapy and the freedom programme.

AnnaNimmity · 18/06/2019 19:46

well if his name begins with a B....

Good luck. My answer. No it's not worth the risk. Nothing is. The cost to you (and your children) is too high.

Being calm? So what? Apparently having one account? That you know of.

Good luck OP.

CharlotteCollinsneeLucas · 18/06/2019 21:05

That's good he hasn't messaged. Enjoy your quiet week, OP.

Mum4Fergus · 18/06/2019 21:44

Ps how do you find out if someone has multiple accounts? I can only see he has one when I search his name?

Assuming he has given you his real, full name...other options might be different spelling of real, or indeed false, name, using previous/maiden family names, usually a totally random name or variation. Really no way of being sure what he may have different account names.

Graphista · 18/06/2019 22:02

"He hasn’t had loads of jobs....nor loads of girlfriends and just one wife....he’s solvent and is in the process of buying his flat....so he can’t be broke..." Unless you've done a thorough background check you can't possibly know this of someone you've only known 10 weeks!!

Re checking his sm you need to check from a device where you're not logged in to your own account for starters as he could have you blocked. He could be using alternate spellings or nicknames or a completely different name.

Lefty1 · 18/06/2019 23:19

OP if nothing else use Clare’s law to ask the police if there is anything you need to be aware of

I’d check his details are correct too, have you seen his drivers licence or anything to confirm you have his correct name?

I agree with other posters , this guy doesn’t sound good. My hairs literally stood on end when I read about the “find my friend” part ....what was his rationale for asking you to do this ?

Please be careful Sad

Dieu · 18/06/2019 23:22

He has no respect for your boundaries, and is fast forwarding everything. It is too much after only 10 weeks, and you have allowed yourself to become swept away in it all. And because he has lavished you with so much, he expects to be given the ultimate say in everything. I personally would end it, but do some work on yourself too.

janetheimpaler · 19/06/2019 00:21

OP, I am going to bow out now. I can't bear to watch you hurt yourself. I know that you don't know us and why should you believe us when we suggest you don't have what you want to have? Maybe ask your ex to meet him and see how he behaves during the meeting? is he calm, respectful and interacting normally? what does he say to you afterwards to make your ex seem less and make him seem more? does he show any rage at the respect between you and your ex? (I commend you on this, on respecting your children father despite how he hurt you, it is very gracious).

I don't think that you are dumb, you seem intelligent, decent (a decent person doesn't want to pry even when not doing so is to their own detriment), kind and very normal. I think the normality of your life and the restraints of decency in which you obviously live makes you vulnerable to narcissist attack. It is difficult to imagine that a person could be such a person. Our experience of good people in our lives (even good people who make mistakes) makes us lucky but also makes us a little blind. I go into the world with goodwill, I hope for good things for my fellow man. Sure there are people whom I dislike and I am not a saint when it comes to them but I do try to lay down my negative emotions because I want to sleep at night and I want to be my best self. It seems like an tv programme about goodies and baddies when you imagine that someone is a "baddie", it seems ridiculous and unfeasible. This allows space for people to behave negatively towards us. Strangers on the internet telling you that you have met a baddie makes the strangers look weird and you and your lovely new man feel more united against this crazy world.

One of the last things that I will say to you is that we are all basically alone. The luckiest we can hope to be is to meet someone who is also alone but who can walk beside us in our aloneness. This takes time to develop, to find someone prepared to invest in us, slowly, to give us the secure space to reveal our intimate selves over a long period of time. This other person needs to have their own life, their own community and to be real, to not be too intense, to allow us to visit our mother with the kids, to maintain our friendship with their father, to sometimes put our old friends/work/children/need to be alone above them. How long did it take for you to form a relationship like this with your ex? was it ten weeks?
When it comes to him buying his own place, I would say "show me the money" as being in the process of buying is not the same as having bought. Do you own a property that it would make more sense for him to move into, if this whirlwind romance results in you being together?
Does he have a long-term community around him? children who love him? any expartner who maintains contact with him, who has no difficulty with him, who would vouch for him? Isn't it normal to look at an ex and say "yeah, he wasn't for me but he is alright"? to see someone who you once loved find happiness with someone new and be glad for them? is anyone glad that he has found a woman as lovely as you? don't you think that they should be? don't you think that the adult child of a man who has been through devastating loss would be glad to see him find love with a kind, honourable person? is anyone cheering for you, anyone who knows him well? Listen to the silence, that too is telling you something because when a naracissist claims a new victim, the old victims want to warn them but they can't for two reasons 1. the new victim won't listen 2. it is their job to protect themselves, to become uninvolved and to allow the negative energy to get out of their lives.

There is a child in me, I want the moon, I want everything, I want all the love, all the fun, all the joy and part of growing up is accepting that that will never happen that enough is enough, when we keep it real.

Be kind to yourself, accept that you are fallible and reach out to people when you are ready to reach out. There's so much goodwill for you here and amongst your friends. Don't be afraid to use it when you are ready. Call on your co-parent to work with you to do what is best for your children.

CousinKrispy · 19/06/2019 09:32

Aw janetheimpaler that is lovely stuff and such good advice for so many of us.

Strawberry, I'll repeat what I said about writing things down ... keep a journal (and keep it somewhere PRIVATE, I kept mine at work) and I'd encourage you to email this guy a lot, and keep the emails. Especially if there are any email exchanges that make you feel upset, tense, at fault, etc. ... they are very useful to go back to and get some perspective on things.

If this guy turns out to be great, then you have a written record of your early days together that will be fun to look back on later, so no harm done! If the guy turns out to be not so great ... like I said before, it is so easy to forget things and not see them clearly in the rush of day to day life (as well as any confusion the guy might throw at you, if he turns out to be not so great). Seeing it all written down can be a huge help.

AnnaNimmity · 19/06/2019 09:36

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SilverySurfer · 19/06/2019 10:24

keep a journal (and keep it somewhere PRIVATE, I kept mine at work) and I'd encourage you to email this guy a lot, and keep the emails. Especially if there are any email exchanges that make you feel upset, tense, at fault, etc. ... they are very useful to go back to and get some perspective on things.

Alternatively, acknowledge all the huge red flags, re-read other people's experiences of being in a relationship with such a person and dump him. It has been ten weeks, you barely know the bloke and if you really need to keep a journal and a copy of all his texts/e-mails, what sort of basis for a relationship is that?

I spent last night reading up on npd and whilst he ticks some of the boxes there are some he doesnt

Oh well, I guess if he doesn't tick ALL the boxes, it will be fine. Good luck, over and out.

CousinKrispy · 19/06/2019 13:20

SilverySurfer, I agree with you but I think one of the things about being with an abuser is that it's an incredibly powerful dynamic that sucks people in. If OP were going to follow your sensible suggestion, she would have already done so. She sounds like she's in the stage where she isn't letting herself see the red flags any more and is having her emotions manipulated by this man.

The person who is being controlled an manipulated by a partner has to get to a point where they make the decision to leave the relationship, not do it because others are telling them to. I suggest keeping stuff written down because it's a tool that can help the light finally dawn when you're making that decision.

Lockcodger · 19/06/2019 16:07

My narc ex was also 'in the process' of buying his flat which was a complete lie. I went to his flat regularly and stayed the night (we were together 9 months) but he was cheating on me relentlessly. There was absolutely no evidence there that he was and he even gave me a key to his place (which I now realise was him setting up a false sense of intimacy). He had a well paid stable job and was in the process of setting up various businesses with very convincing websites. Turned out he was on loads of different dating sites but I never thought to check as he had me utterly convinced that he loved me and we were working towards marriage etc. He was the one who told me he'd only ever had 3 sexual partners, had been single and celebate for 2 years, I met his mum and friends who went along with all of this and the whole time he was bringing other women to her house. His businesses weren't doing as well as he'd made out and pretty much everything he said to me was a lie. Unfortunately you cant trust anything they say and I have learned to be far more discerning in what I believe anyone tells me. Dont ever project your good qualities (honesty, trust, emapthy) onto anyone else, this is something they have to earn.

Narcissists are as varied as human beings are varied (until you have been through the abuse cycles several times you can see the similar pattern) and there are many different 'types' and yours sounds like he is a covert narc. The difference with coverts is that to the outside world, everything appears normal (good house, career friends, social standing, charity work etc) but they are equally as abusive as other types, it just takes longer to see because of the cognitive dissonance. Covert narcs rely heavily on playing the victim (which yours is already doing) and wont appear grandiose at first, in fact they will pretend to be horribly wounded victims of their own circumstance. On the inside though, they feel entitled because of their 'terrible pasts' to be horrible to those closest to them. They are equally as dangerous. They also use much more passive tactics than overt narcs such as stonewalling, silent treatment, hanging up the phone during an argument etc

All of my narcs had many people who had cut them off in their life (exes, family members, children, friends) and you have to ask yourself why. He was very selective about who I met and tried way too hard to ingratiate himself with my family (to later use them as his flying monkeys during the smear campaign).

They all talked about ex partners either in a derogatory way (so I knew not to be like them) or in a bragging way (to triangulate me and make me jealous). They would squirm if i even mentioned the name of an ex of mine though and all became angry at how many men I'd slept with after a few months when they had asked me the question at the beginning of the relationship.

Another thing is that they were very superficial. Called me 'babe' rather than my name, focussed on buying me 'women shit' like flowers rather than anything thoughtful, 'forgot' to get me anything for my birthday, became disinterested in my stories and constantly 'misunderstood' me on purpose (the opposite of the beginning when they were digging for information), became flaky by cancelling plans at last minute (cheating by this point).

Watch closely for all of these things as the relationship progresses but there are so many more and not all of them display every single behaviour, especially not in the beginning.

If you are determined to give this guy a chance, regularly reassess his behaviour and reread this thread every few months. If you are unhappy a few months down the line and asking yourself 'is it me?' then know it definitely isn't you. If you are constantly being made to feel like you are unreasonable, you said the wrong thing, you made the mistake, you have to apologise (some narcs will apologise at first but then change the argument into being about all of your flaws), you just need to figure out how to be with him and you could have a great relationship then know you have been brainwashed and need to get out.

Healthy relationships dont make you feel like this and should be effortless with no drama

Lockcodger · 19/06/2019 16:14

Oh and the cheating narc ex never hid his phone from me either. He spent days at my house and it was always on silent (RED FLAG) but he rarely checked it, I never saw texts from another woman and only found out he was cheating the first and only time I went through his phone (not something I would normally ever do but I knew by this point something was very wrong).

He also broke up with me every few weeks because of something I'd said, my kids did, something from my past. There was always something he could find to start an argument, then the silent treatment began and by the time he'd come back with an apology, I would forgive him because I was so happy he had apologised and seen the error in his ways.

If he causes a huge row over nothing and storms off or breaks up with you, know that this is your first discard and you cannot let him back after this because it's just the next stage of the abuse cycle: idealise, devalue, discard

Lockcodger · 19/06/2019 16:27

Another thing was one ex narc would insist in driving me to work and collecting me (which I thought was sweet at first). Sometimes he'd hang around in the city to meet up for lunch, offer to collect me from nights out but would show up early, show up at my house as a 'surprise'. He was really just checking up on me and making sure I was where I said I was and with who I said I was with. He later went on to go through my phone, log into the account on my security camera at home (as he wanted to make sure I was safe), constantly ring me about things that could have easily been asked by text.

This didn't happen over night, it was a very subtle increase over time so I hardly noticed by the end. It was only after I ended the relationship and saw the narc rage in all its glory that I realised how controlling he was.