Just another MN cynic or are these red flags?

[Strawberryblondereally]

NC’d. Divorced 2 years ago and have been dating with various success. Met my DP 10 weeks ago and have been overwhelmed by my feelings....He has been everything I could have hoped for. We have seen each other most days since meeting initially if even just for a coffee during lunch, the sex is the best I’ve ever had, we have so much in common and he makes me smile so much....

I’m a MN veteran and have read about narcissists and the like over the years so am quite attuned to the signs....I haven’t wanted my DP to meet my DC yet as I thought it a bit early but he was very keen from the off. He has DC too. It was my DC bday and I’d mentioned in passing to him that I’d forgotten to pick her up cupcakes and an hour later he turned up at my house unannounced and delivered 48 Lola’s cupcakes. My DC opened the door to him....it was all quite awkward and I didn’t know what to do....now I know this was a generous act but I stressed that I didn’t want him meeting my DC yet and he just totally ignored it....when I confronted him later about it he accused me of being shut off as a result of my marriage breakdown....I’m not at all and my marriage ended amicably....

I’ve spoken to friends and they say he has red flags everywhere which I’ve probably just ignored to be frank....he’s lavished me with expensive gifts, taken me to fancy restaurants, holidays etc all in 10 weeks which I thought was just generosity but my friends think is alarming....he’s also talking about us living together and getting married this year which sounds ridiculously soon to me but each time I say that he gets really upset and accuses me of not loving him....

Am I being cynical here? Might this guy just be a gudun and I’m allowing my paranoia to creep in?

Im0gen they'll say anything to get back with you. Mine actually went to therapy (or at least told me he did -even sending me location alerts) for me. I have no idea whether he did.

And once you've discarded them, they are so angry. They'll do anything to get back at you. I agree they only have 2 genuine emotions really - self-pity and anger. The rest is fake. And agree about playing the pity card - I think a few posts say this. Mine cried to me so many times. His sob story about his family, his mid-life divorce. His mistakes and misery. I always fell for it. Even the last time I saw him (which ended in him attacking me) he was crying and begging me to take him back.

@Lockcodger your posts are ringing so many bells for me. The lack of empathy is the best sign.

It's my biggest regret - the impact of this on my children. The fact I had him in their lives. My older dds saw him as controlling pretty soon, but my youngest? They thought he was exciting, fun, and generous. Buying them stuff, giving them presents, taking them on bike rides. It was all fake. If nothing else, I know that my children do not deserve this man in their lives. I pity his real children and I should have realised when I saw how he treated his children (and how they treated him). what kind of a man he was.

I do see why it's hard to give him up right now. If you intend to break in a horse, you approach it with a pocketful of sugar lumps, and right now he's doing this to you. I don't even mean the gifts, I meant the loved-up chemicals your own brain is releasing - the squirts of dopamine and oxytocin. They're addictive. It's very hard to canter off when the nice man still has sugar lumps in his pocket.

They will disappear, and it will be All Your Fault for not doing x, y or z (or for doing x, y or z. Here's the trick - there is no right way of doing or not doing x, y or z!) Oh, he'll dole out the occasional one, just to keep you hanging on and hoping for the next one.

I understand the logic of giving him another chance - you want to wait till the good stuff is gone and the bad stuff is so clearly predominant that it's easy to make the choice. The thing is, it doesn't get easier, it gets harder, because you get more and more confused about whether stuff is bad and how bad it is and how the balance works between good and bad - you see the good bits with such pathetic relief that you blow them out of all proportion ("He was in a good mood this morning! Isn't it wonderful?")

If you're holding out for more sugarlumps, just be really, really careful. You're going to get worse at understanding him, not better, so you're going to need some very strong external reality checks. Keep telling your real-life friends what he does - don't censor or lose touch because "They just don't like him" and "They don't see the soft side I do" and "They don't understand". You are lost, absolutely lost when you get to that point.

Keep posting here. Name-change if you have to. I honestly can't see this heading anywhere good, because it just doesn't happen that the shell of a controlling man cracks and a lovely, reasonable, kind man steps out. But it sounds like you need to venture further into the danger-zone before you'll accept that, so good luck, and please don't go too far.

I understand the logic of giving him another chance - you want to wait till the good stuff is gone and the bad stuff is so clearly predominant that it's easy to make the choice. The thing is, it doesn't get easier, it gets harder, because you get more and more confused about whether stuff is bad and how bad it is and how the balance works between good and bad - you see the good bits with such pathetic relief that you blow them out of all proportion ("He was in a good mood this morning! Isn't it wonderful?")

This is so so true.

For me, by the time I was working out if it was bad enough to end, we were married with a baby. In my head , the balance of being “ bad enough “ had shifted a great deal. Things I would NEVER have tolerated when I was dating were now not bad enough to end a marriage.

My options were very few, as a single mum again on maternity leave.

And of course my expectations were so much lower - everyone knows it’s a rough time in a marriage when you have a newborn baby. I ended up telling myself “ well at least he pays the bills / doesn’t get drunk every night “.

That’s how low my standards got.

He started off just like the OPs boyfriend, even down to the almost daily gifts. Telling me how amazing I was and how he had never met any other woman like me.

#gullible

I agree with Bibli, keep talking to your friends.

A good rule is that if you find yourself embarrassed to tell your friends what your partner is doing/has done then it's a good sign that you are in the wrong relationship.

Strawberry, you have become defensive, you are moving towards it being you and him against the world. At a time in a relationship where confident, healthy people are treating things lightly and having fun. Is this fun?
You are addicted to the thrill of him. A thrill that you have never experienced before. The reason for this is that it isn't real, he is reflecting you back at yourself - making you fall in love with your ideal.
It must have been a big slap to have your exhusband leave you for someone else and now this person is making you feel like the most wanted woman on the planet. Yet he doesn't know you yet, he has made dozens of women before you feel the same way. It is too soon and the reason it is soon is that it isn't about you it's about him. It's about you fulfilling the fantasy of him being the most wanted man on the planet. He knows how to make you feel this way and is pulling your strings and controlling you. It's a mirage and mirages are never obtained.
My blood runs cold at the safe word as narcs have patterns and his pattern obviously involves something physically unsavoury, if a safe word is necessary. I have a happy relationship, I live with someone who shows self control, patience, endurance, gentliness and tolerance, who gives me and my children a sense of security and safety. I have no safe word (are you mad?). My husband says love is a verb not a noun. He shows us love by cutting the hedge, by making dinner, by collecting us at inconvenient hours, by being dependable, by putting our needs before his own. You have been shown love is a noun. What has he done to make you feel respected, safe, secure and hopeful? Good sex is about him using you as a mirror to reflect how wonderful he is. Daily contact is about filling your lonely place to increase your addiction to him and to slowly allow him to gain control. Love bombing and gift giving is to disguise the fact that he is incapable of steady, ongoing normal behaviour. He doesn't have the self discipline or control to be normal, so he must be a superhero to pull you in. A man who likes himself enough, will know that he is enough and that in time that will be revealed.
You are already addicted to him, you are helping him in increasing your delusion. It is a lovely dream. That would be fine if you just woke up, but, you won't walk away from this lightly, he will try to destroy you.

Can you contact one of his children or his ex-wife, has he left a link on social media? If he has use it, ask them and see. Afterall if he is wonderful, his child will tell you that. If he is capable of having a good relationship with an ex, his ex will tell you that as you would for your exhusband. I am frightened for you. I will never meet you but I send good will and self love your way. Be careful.

Just pay attention to your gut - you don’t even have to find the words to explain what has unsettled you - because it will be a subtle push of the boundary swirling in smoke and mirrors to confuse or distract you - so that you don’t even notice cognitively - but your subconscious alarm system is buzzing - listen to it.

Just log each and every unsettling feeling in notes on your phone with a time date place and a ?. In the end you will see the totality - don’t bother to try to understand it or see patterns.

It’s like bullying - micro aggressions or transgressions that they get away with as you would sound irrational to complain about one thing - but add them all together and you have the accumulation and no doubt the escalation.

The list of his behaviours are classic red flags - your own gut is telling you this.

Search for the thread that was on here a few months back about what is really behind men not seeing their DCs. An eye opener.

OP may not be ready to listen to the good advice on this thread, but it is massively helpful to me (I have split from my H but am still recovering and still trying to un-learn what led me into a relationship with him in the first place). So thanks everyone.

Strawberry, I have a book recommendation for you--Stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist : how to end the drama and get on with life www.amazon.co.uk/s?ref=nb_sb_noss&k=narcissism+books+caretaking&tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Please read it, or watch some of the videos that have been linked by other posters. I know how hard it is to make the decision to split at this stage--I've been there too. Maybe take the pressure off yourself for making that decision right now, and focus instead on increasing your understanding of these kinds of relationships, and your understanding of yourself? Because what's the harm in that, right?

Oh, and I agree with another20 about keeping notes, whether it's on your phone or a diary or something (just make sure it is private). No harm done if it all turns out fine, but if he is as problematic as he sounds from your description, keeping notes of what you're uncomfortable with at the time can help hugely ... I found it so easy to forget what happened and what he did in the day to day confusion and trauma.

This post is helping me too. Am still in early recovery after my experience... he’s still emailing me and this is helping me stay strong.

Ok I take back my comment about it being a waste. If other people are finding it helpful then that's positive

I'm sorry OP but @janetheimpaler has it bang on:

Strawberry, you have become defensive, you are moving towards it being you and him against the world. At a time in a relationship where confident, healthy people are treating things lightly and having fun. Is this fun?

Your tone has totally changed and you don't sound open to any thoughts challenging your thinking. Having a safe word, having to establish very normal boundaries, having to have serious chats, being concerned enough to set up a thread, saying you love each other (I know you back pedalled on this here but you've both said it to each other), showing up unannounced etc - these things are NOT normal ten weeks in. You know this!! Listen to your gut, it told you this was too much too soon and love bombing not healthy. It was right.

redshoesand theblues - what was your reason for staying with him?
If it's a sad life, don't you want it to be better? Not accusing - genuinely interested.

What’s the safe word for? I don’t get it.

I really feel for you OP because I've been there. By the time you realise something is seriously wrong you will be in too deep and won't be able to leave him. You think now that you will but you won't. Because in the end its like an addiction. It's like someone saying they can take heroin every day but can give it up at any time. Obviously they can't and it destroys them. That's why all these other posters are trying to warn you. I really hope you don't feel "got at" by all our posts. I know I am writing from genuine concern. It was the "find my friends" request that really did it for me. That isn't normal at all and, like many others, was the way my ex used to track me. But even he didn't suggest it this early on!

I was discarded in the end. Once he'd broken me and made me into a shadow of my former self, he wasn't having "fun" anymore. He needed a shiny new victim to systematically break down. I was left in pieces and I doubt I will ever get into a relationship again, because I don't think I'd survive that level of pain again.

This is why people are advising you to run now, before you're in to deep and can't. I understand that you want to believe this is good and right. I totally get that. Just please keep your eyes wide open and don't let him rush you into anything. Protect your heart.

Idealise, devalue, discard - is the process.

Safe word???! Why??

What's the safe word about? In case your phone is in view of the kids?

I don't understand the safe word - can't you just tell him that you're ok speaking? Or do you text him "Squirrel" and he then phones you?

Or something.

(I'm not laughing really - because it's bizarre and you can't see it).

Strawberryblondereally
Don’t narcs have no awareness of their bad actions?

I have not read past this post yet, but just had to say that I spent 17 years married to a clinically diagnosed Narc, and while they may have no awareness in the traditional sense, they are masters of saying and doing what ever they feel is necessary in order to get their fix, and a true narc is scary good at it.

The fact that they have no awareness and are incapable of ever becoming aware is what makes them so insidious. The manipulation and bad actions are the very core of who they are.

What you have just conveyed as his response is scary. He knew exactly what to say to explain away your concerns, and how to say it to reel you back in.

.I asked him for some info on his exes and he was quite closed about it and said he didn’t want to disrespect them.....I told him that has got my back up and that I’d like to know why the last gf threw him out...::I told him when he’s ready to talk about it

He won't tell you because it is not information that puts him in a good light.

That alone is a super huge red flag.

Are you able to track down the old exes and ask them?

My exh sounds just like this. All good until i was 7mth pregnant - it started. It paused for a while, then started again - his parents are also abusive so support & enable his abuse. His current gf is a mess. She fell for the jealous ex wife who stops me seeing the kids routine, the ex wife who made him lose his job, the ex wife who he stalked but that was just checking that the kids were ok. He totally rewrote history & failed to mention abuse on every level starting with the accidental shoving, pestering for sex, refusing to help provide for the kids, eventually hitting me & his young children (final straw), me having to flee for our safety, non mol, divorce and no contact with the kids which took 8yrs because he is that evil. Poor woman now has a child with him, both are being abused and he goads her into taking overdoses - She's being painted as the Looney one who he is trying to help. Don't be that woman.

I got love bombed by my ex. He was emotionally and physically abusive in the end.
I'm now with the love of my life and there were no red flags.

Is th safeword something you say during an intimate moment,so when you say the word, he knows when to stop? Surely, just saying no or stop should be enough, or he should know your limits.

Even if you want to dismiss the almost unanimous posts on this thread, your friends have already spotted that he is dodgy. So, this isn’t just Internet strangers but those that actually do know you. Do not ignore this! You are lulling yourself into this false sense of security that you addressed the situation and are in control. You are not. He has merely changed the game plan a bit. He tested your boundaries with the cupcakes, working out if you were already ‘cooked soft’ enough but you weren’t quite ready yet and his mask slipped for a nanosecond with his arrogant and narcissistic initial reply. He re-grouped and now is using more long-term tactics. In a decent relationship, there would not be so much angst and issues this early on. No one needs a safe word in a relationship. Your whole demeanour has changed over the course of this thread at quite a worrying pace. There is drama and the risk of drama-bonding. You DO know that he is playing some kind of game and spotted the red flags. But now, you are getting caught up by your own ego and pride, in that you believe that YOU can handle him and are in control how it will move forward and won’t make all the same mistakes many of the posters on this thread have made. You won’t fall for it, not you! And this is where he already reeled you in much deeper than you even realise. You swallowed that bait with the hook. Never assume that you can outsmart or play a seasoned narcissistic player. That’s their raison d’être. You have other far more important issues to focus on, especially putting your DC first and not get entangled with someone that oversteps so many boundaries and getting locked into a battle of wills already. His interest in your children is alarming too. There is potential a very dangerous and unsavoury reason for that. Sexual predators will target women with children, many of whom will be so overwhelmed and grateful for a man actually expressing an interest in taking on their kids. However, controlling men will also see a mother of young kids as an easier prey. Once they are enmeshed in family life, it is far harder to get away. Then you don’t just have to fight over your own boundaries but those of your children.

Thank you for the advice and support.....i don’t want to trigger anyone here so I’m going to leave the thread now.....I didn’t sleep last night and asked him to write me an email to tel me why his ex threw him out....he sent it to me and it was very upsetting....they had a stillborn child and the loss took such a huge toll on them that he decided he didn’t want to have anymore children...she threw him out and he never went back...

I’m taking the week....