My wife may leave me.

[CMA7]

Hi all

In desperate need of some advice. I am writing this thread out of desperation so apologise for any errors. It is also my first post.

Problems started with me around 4 weeks ago when I asked my wife if she was cheating on me. A couple of things had happened that sent my mind into that method of thinking and after being up all night one night I decided to ask the question one morning. My wife completely denied my allegation towards her which was to be expected then later in the evening she decided she wanted to have a chat about where we going as she didn't feel she was in love with me anymore and that this had been brewing for a while but my accusation had made her want to take about it. She still advised she hadn't been cheating and told me what had lead her to her point of not being in love with me anymore. I agreed with her points and could see the damage I had caused and begged her for a chance to let me make things right. My wife allowed me to do this and the following days were really nice but then anxiety and depression started to kick in. We have a young child together and I admit I have been a bit lazy in his upbringing to this point.

In the following days/ weeks, Due to the anxiety I started to watch my wife's every move with her phone and was questioning everytime she was going on it. The anxiety got to the point where I had to ask her who she had been messaging on Facebook one afternoon. My wife did not lie and told me the truth that she had been messaging a mutual friend of ours who had been having problems with his own relationship. The couple in question are good friend of ours. I asked to see the messages that had been exchanged and was told no but was shown the screen which proved she wasnt lieing about who she was messaging. I then asked why I couldn't see the messages if she had nothing to hide and was told that she didn't need to justify herself. This obviosuly didn't do anything to help with the anxiety. The next day my wife told me that the messages had been deleted off her phone by the guy s he didn't want his partner knowing they had been messaging about the complications with their relationship. Again my anxiety spiraled out of control and I began to think again that she was cheating on me. I was unhappy with my wife and asked her why she was investing her time trying to help someone elses relationship when ours was on the line. My wife understood my point.

I managed to get over this and become very clingy to my wife due to the fear of losing her and my son. If anything, being clingy has made things worse but I have been over trying as I have not been receiving anything back. At this point I am 99% sure my wife hasn't been cheating on me as she only goes to work and then home and is in constant contact with me.

I told my wife that I had contemplated taking my own life not to make her feel sorry or anything for me but just to try and highlight that without her and my son around I didn't have much to live for. Althought he thoughts were serious I understood at the same time i realise it is really selfish but that is where the depression has got me too. The thoughts are still there and I do think that it will be my est option as I would have nothing left. I have close friends around me but refuse to talk to anyone other than my wife as I feel when I start to talk about it, it becomes 'real'. Part of the issue I am having aswell is I have a really close family around me but they live far away and I embarrassed to talk to them as I do not want them to put my wife under any pressure and I also feel embarrassed as I have caused the mess.

I am still watching my wife's every move with her phone and questioning her. She does get angry at this and will eventually, to my embarrassment show me what she has been doing on her phone etc. Without constantly blaming the anxiety this is the point I am at as my life is nothing without her and my so around. She has spoke about moving to her parents short term to see how things go but I have begged her not to as I feel that if she did this then we will be over forever. We have been together in total for 12 years and we were only 17 at the time of meeting, so my life has constantly involved her.

I understand that it is me that has caused this as I fell into the void of taking her for granted but just want to know how I go about winning her heart back and if this is achievable as she and my son as a family mean everything to me.

If a woman said she was demanding to see her husband's phone, threatening suicide, insinuating an affair because he's close to someone at work, I would say the same thing... leave. The relationship clearly isn't making anyone happy and is becoming manipulative

You're so caught up in talking shit about women that you're just derailing the thread.

It says something that the OP thinks you're being 'sympathetic' when you're just backing up his paranoia

Nothing in this situation is normal and both partners should be free to leave. Acknowledging your mistakes is your first step and the next is getting help and genuinely being willing to change. The old tactics won't work

DecomposingComposers some posters would. I can guarantee I wouldn't.

Having been in the wifes position. I can tell you that I often posts that people need to calm down and actually look at the situation. I also point out the woman's behaviour would be considered abusive and controlling.

I very much dislike reading the encouragement of posters, to go through their partners phone, watch their every move, got through their personal things etc

I cant do anything about anything anyone else posts. But I know what I post.

There are some nasty nasty people out there who are fully conversed in abusive behaviours because it describes them.
I’ll say this, just once, gently to these narrow damaged posters (who have obviously been hurt themselves, to be such bullies)...
...when your long term partner and parent to you children tells you they no longer love you following a prolonged period in which they have been distant or detached, it can create a desperate anxiety and despair. It can set off panic, overthinking, dread and fear. All quite usual responses. And yes, it can lead to suicidal thoughts.

Women posting exactly that on these pages - in addition to be given huge sympathy- are told to expect OW to show up soon. And then - to look for odd behaviour with phone etc.

I don’t know why men posting on should be treated with such callousness - even to the point of trying to crowbar the relationship apart on the flimsiest of evidence and generous helpings of transference and conjecture. I know people do this all the time but when dealing with someone at one of the most desperate times if their life - have some decency! You all know who you are on this thread and if you aren’t just abusers in your own lives then I hope you will have some sense of shame.

Nasty, nasty, narrow, damaged, abusive bullies with no sense of shame or decency.

That's us told.

Dadaist that's the most ridiculous I have read on here for a long time.

Many are well versed in abuse, because they have been the victim of it. Not the perpetrator.

It's not the flimsiest of reasons. He admits he has taken her for granted and been lazy with the child. He admits he knows he has needed to change

Again, I never agree with the 'there will be a OW' in the wings.

The reason for that, is that my exh couldnt accept I just wanted to leave. He kept telling everyone a OM would turn up. I eventually got with someone 2 years later. Someone i didnt even meet until after I left my exh. But he still insists o must have had an affair and his it for 2 years.

I definitely dont agree there is always an OW. And I dont believe it's kind or nice to a poster to try and convince them there is. If there is, what does it change? The relationship is still over. If there isnt a OW, convincing someone who is emotional over a relationship ending is going to end in total breakdown in communication between the seperating parties.

You seem to attributing some posters comments, from past threads to other posters in here and assuming they would post differently if it was a woman.

Of course people feel suicidal when a relationship is coming to an end. I wont deny that. But I do believe that telling someone you will kill yourself if they leave, is abusive.

It's trying to control their actions. Luckily the OP had found someone else to confide in and other support. That he will need wether she stays or leaves.

There are some noble and notable exceptions on this thread too.

@shequakes Threatening to kill yourself if someone doesn’t comply with your wishes certainly can be abusive - sharing that you have had suicidal thoughts is not quite the same. And it is often said as an expression of pain, rather than a genuine intent. It’s never a good thing to introduce into a relationship and can have all kinds of implications- but feelings of worthlessness, guilt and an irredeemable history are major factors when people actually go through with it. And your contribution to the thread? To assume abusive controlling intent and ramp up the sense of worthlessness, futility, guilt and irredeemable behaviour - not just pointing out it’s not a good thing and can be abusive.
And to continue the abuse narrative you’ve been keen to perpetuate-many victims of abuse go on to abuse.

Your experience (which sounds awful) may make you vigilant in spotting the same behaviour in others. And we all project our own experiences on to situations. But you don’t have enough information, and admit yourself that the poster could be being gaslighted, betrayed neglected and abused by his DW - which can also lead to suicidal feelings.
I’m not being ridiculous-other posters have also raised alarm at the glaring insensitivity by some on this thread.

Shequakes

Maybe you wouldn't say these things to a woman posting - but most would.

I have never seen a post from a woman, saying that her husband appears to be messaging another woman but won't show her his phone, be told what the OP is being told here.

I don't necessarily think the OPs wife is cheating but he is clearly deeply upset and hopefully therapy will help him work through whatever he is feeling.

I just don't think it's necessary for posters to stick the boot in in the way that has even done.

DecomposingComposers you may not see it. But i have definitely said it.

Personally I think controlling behaviour is tolerated far too much. Encouraged far too much too. And I wont participate in it.

I actually posted on 2 threads over the weekend, that if the sexes were reversed it would be called abuse.

So I do agree but I will speak up for myself. If someone is generalizing posts, I will speak up for myself.

I dont think the OP is a monster. I dont think my exh was. I do think that its abuse and I do think the impact on the victim is the same.

I dont agree that not wanting you partner to know every converstation you have, means theres an affair. I would also think that if the OP had been confident he had been a good husband and father, he wouldnt feel this paranoid.

At least in part, this has been cause by him knowing he hasnt done enough. It's possible she is gas lighting etc. But I do think this in part is because OP knows he didnt do enough before

Its complex. What I do know is that if she stats because she feels she has to, the marriage wont get better and in 2 years the OP will be in the same position. Feeling depressed because he knows she is there out of obligation. Not love.

Shequakes

I'm not disbelieving you. If you post in that way then that's fair enough.

Not many do though.

I've seen a few threads where the OP is discussing suicide. Never have I seen posters tell them that they are abusive or saying things that have been said on here (thankfully some have been deleted).

We cannot know the state of mind of anyone posting.

I still think had the OP posted as though he were a woman he would have got completely different responses.

Threatening to kill yourself if someone doesn’t comply with your wishes certainly can be abusive - sharing that you have had suicidal thoughts is not quite the same. And it is often said as an expression of pain, rather than a genuine intent.

The Op told he would want to kill himself if she left. He told her it would a result of her choice. Not that he felt that bad in general. As I have said multiple times, he may not have intended it to be controlling. But it is.

If your MH is that bad you say these things not realising the consquences you need immediate help. But it's still abuse. The consquence is still that she womt feel able to leave for a long time.

Is it intentional? Probably not. Does it have the same outcome? Yes.

Your experience (which sounds awful) may make you vigilant in spotting the same behaviour in others. And we all project our own experiences on to situations. But you don’t have enough information, and admit yourself that the poster could be being gaslighted, betrayed neglected and abused by his DW - which can also lead to suicidal feelings.

So if you believe the OP is abusing his partner and hold lots of the blame, you must be an abuser. Then when you realise that's ridiculous. It must be because you cant see straight because you were the victim.

So essentially anyone who isnt going 'oh poor op your wife is definitely cheating and bitch' cant have a valid opinion?.

He has given information. Such as, he knows he didn't do enough and left it until she has disengaged completely. It wasnt until he almost lost everything that he realised.

And there just the same information available people who choose to think it's the wifes fault too.

It I am not talking to the wife. I am talking to the OP who has ended up in a position where his actions (though maybe not intent) are abusive.

I've seen a few threads where the OP is discussing suicide.

Theres a huge difference between saying 'I feel suicidal' and 'I will commit suicide if you leave'

It would depend, very much in what is said and how.

As I said the intent, may not be abusive. Put the output is controlling the other person.

As I said, if you MN is so bad you cant tell the difference, like thevpp, you need help immediately

Ugh she needs to leave you and quickly
You admit you have left her to do almost all the childcare and housework
You accuse her of cheating
You control her behaviour and movements
You stalk her and obsess over her phone
You threaten suicide if she leaves you

You're a classic domestic abuser.

Shequakes

Some people who do those things are abusive.

Some people who do them are in great distress and aren't saying it as a means to control but because they are saying how they feel.

I spoke to someone very close to me yesterday whose relative has been seriously depressed for years. They've told this person that when my friend dies they will kill themselves. They've threatened it many times before. Are they abusive? I don't think so, they are in immense pain. They aren't able to comprehend how their comments make others feel because their own pain is overwhelming.

Some people who do those things are abusive.

I have acknowledged the intent my not be abusive. The result is the same. Control of someones actions.

Your friends situation is very different. If you friend dies, that's not a choice. Your friend cant control when they die.

Its obviously concerning that this person is saying that. But it's not quite the same.

Shequakes

Really? Do you not think that living with that knowledge isn't terrifying? She's older and unwell and is panic stricken because she knows what her death means. I don't think that can be dismissed so easily by saying they can't control when they die. No she can't but she is terrified of it happening and is making different decisions than she might otherwise.

But then I think that is true of anyone living with a relative with a serious illness. We worry about them and their illness, to some extent, controls what we do.

DecomposingComposers I didnt dismiss it at all. And I have been talking about controlling abusive.

Trying to control someone's decisions. If this person is controlling your friend, through threats of suicide. Then its abuse. Regardless of intention. The outcome is that you friend is being abused.

If it is causing your friend emotional distress, its abuse. If the person is refusing all help and continuing to act like this. They are abusing your friend.

The outcome is you friend is terrified and controlled. That's abuse.

If the person is refusing all help and continuing to act like this.

The person isn't refusing help - thee is no help. They are on a waiting list for therapy. Know what the waiting time is? Two years!!

I don't believe it's abuse. It is an illness and this is an affect of the illness, just as if they had cancer. My friend would be terrified if this relative was going to be left alone with a serious physical illness. That would be as controlling.

Do you think having a physical illness that affects those around you is abusive?

Decomposing do you think that abusive men are mentally unwell?

DecomposingComposers you cant see the difference?

You may feel it's not abuse. I am telling you I think it is.

The outcome on the person suffering it is the same. You say this person has been depressed for years. So at some point hasnt been looking for help. Because with a 2 year wait, they would be having the therapy.

Worrying about someone with a physical illness is normal.

If you are physically ill and keep saying to someone "I cant live with out you and will due without you" in an attempt to get them to stay. Yes its abusive.

You say this person has been depressed for years. So at some point hasnt been looking for help. Because with a 2 year wait, they would be having the therapy.

This person has been in and out of hospital and still sees a psychiatrist regularly - all they do is prescribe medication. Finally, they've (the psychiatrist) agreed to try therapy again and so have put them forward. The system is terrible. It isn't the patients fault at all.

Decomposing do you think that abusive men are mentally unwell?

I think some are definitely. Some mentally ill people will be abusive regardless of their mental illness. Some abusive people will have no mental health issues although I find it quite hard to understand how any person that doesn't have a mental health issue could be abusive, violent etc. There is always a reason for behaviour, it's finding out what that reason is that's the difficulty.

Just an update for you all and to seek some more advice about what we do now. Tonight my wife has admitted to me that she has cheated on me with the guy I originally suspected it to be. Clearly I am devastated and have told her that yes this is a scar that will never be healed but I can forgive her for this as i was the one that drove her to it in the beginning for being a lazy husband/ father. My wife said there was no way back from this as she will not be able to live with the guilt she is feeling. Is it possible you can ever come back from this as a couple?

Wow - OP I’m so sorry. Done want to read and run - but please DON’T rush to forgive - she will lose all respect for you.
Unfortunately none of the posters that accused you of paranoia will be back, but hopefully others will to offer some support- and I’m sorry you’ve been badly treated by some on this thread.

I'm so sorry OP but I really think your wife doesn't want to be with you anymore, she is trying to get you to be the one to make the decision though. To say she can't come back because of the guilt is bullshit, she can't come back because she simply doesn't want to. Sometimes it's just too late, once those feelings are gone they are gone.

I would initiate seperation, get your head straight, let her get her head straight and just take it from there. It is shit BUT you will be ok eventually. Just don't beg her to stay in this marriage, you would be giving her the green light to go ahead to and do what she wants. So retain some dignity, start looking at living elsewhere (one of you anyway) and concentrate on getting yourself well again.

Oh and you didn't drive her to it by being a lazy father/husband. Regardless of this she made a choice. She could have spoke to you, and failing that she could have ended this marriage before falling into bed with someone else. So it's not your fault, it's just a choice she made.

And for the naysayers on here, men are just as entitled to follow they on gut feelings as well