My wife may leave me.

[CMA7]

Hi all

In desperate need of some advice. I am writing this thread out of desperation so apologise for any errors. It is also my first post.

Problems started with me around 4 weeks ago when I asked my wife if she was cheating on me. A couple of things had happened that sent my mind into that method of thinking and after being up all night one night I decided to ask the question one morning. My wife completely denied my allegation towards her which was to be expected then later in the evening she decided she wanted to have a chat about where we going as she didn't feel she was in love with me anymore and that this had been brewing for a while but my accusation had made her want to take about it. She still advised she hadn't been cheating and told me what had lead her to her point of not being in love with me anymore. I agreed with her points and could see the damage I had caused and begged her for a chance to let me make things right. My wife allowed me to do this and the following days were really nice but then anxiety and depression started to kick in. We have a young child together and I admit I have been a bit lazy in his upbringing to this point.

In the following days/ weeks, Due to the anxiety I started to watch my wife's every move with her phone and was questioning everytime she was going on it. The anxiety got to the point where I had to ask her who she had been messaging on Facebook one afternoon. My wife did not lie and told me the truth that she had been messaging a mutual friend of ours who had been having problems with his own relationship. The couple in question are good friend of ours. I asked to see the messages that had been exchanged and was told no but was shown the screen which proved she wasnt lieing about who she was messaging. I then asked why I couldn't see the messages if she had nothing to hide and was told that she didn't need to justify herself. This obviosuly didn't do anything to help with the anxiety. The next day my wife told me that the messages had been deleted off her phone by the guy s he didn't want his partner knowing they had been messaging about the complications with their relationship. Again my anxiety spiraled out of control and I began to think again that she was cheating on me. I was unhappy with my wife and asked her why she was investing her time trying to help someone elses relationship when ours was on the line. My wife understood my point.

I managed to get over this and become very clingy to my wife due to the fear of losing her and my son. If anything, being clingy has made things worse but I have been over trying as I have not been receiving anything back. At this point I am 99% sure my wife hasn't been cheating on me as she only goes to work and then home and is in constant contact with me.

I told my wife that I had contemplated taking my own life not to make her feel sorry or anything for me but just to try and highlight that without her and my son around I didn't have much to live for. Althought he thoughts were serious I understood at the same time i realise it is really selfish but that is where the depression has got me too. The thoughts are still there and I do think that it will be my est option as I would have nothing left. I have close friends around me but refuse to talk to anyone other than my wife as I feel when I start to talk about it, it becomes 'real'. Part of the issue I am having aswell is I have a really close family around me but they live far away and I embarrassed to talk to them as I do not want them to put my wife under any pressure and I also feel embarrassed as I have caused the mess.

I am still watching my wife's every move with her phone and questioning her. She does get angry at this and will eventually, to my embarrassment show me what she has been doing on her phone etc. Without constantly blaming the anxiety this is the point I am at as my life is nothing without her and my so around. She has spoke about moving to her parents short term to see how things go but I have begged her not to as I feel that if she did this then we will be over forever. We have been together in total for 12 years and we were only 17 at the time of meeting, so my life has constantly involved her.

I understand that it is me that has caused this as I fell into the void of taking her for granted but just want to know how I go about winning her heart back and if this is achievable as she and my son as a family mean everything to me.

I can totally understand where you are coming from OP. I think you need to go see your GP about your anxiety and look at the possibilities of therapy for yourself and then as a couple. You are smothering your wife right now and as unintentional as it is you are subjecting her to emotional trauma. Although I am sure those fb messages could have been shown if there was nothing to hide! You are both going have to trust each other and make this relationship work if that is what you both want.

She advised me he asked her to remove them from her phone and she didn't know how to so he grabbed her phone and did it instead. I asked why he wanted them deleted and she said as he didn't want his other half to find out he had been moaning about there relationship. The guy in question is one of the mechanics she works with and him and his other half do often come round for dinner etc.

I would say your wife is also moaning about your relationship to him.

There's no way the responses would be like this if you were a woman.

Not only do they work together, but they message out of work. Him taking about his wife.

In the case of a married man supporting or messaging a woman with relationship issues....I often read .. "It's never Jim in accounts he helps is it. Its always women...who are described as vulnerable because their marriage is a mess.

The other familiar line is...anything you can't show your spouse is at the very least inappropriate. I'd say it's an emotional affair....but they'll delete the messages all the time now, so you won't find out.

Would any wife here be happy to hear her DH is messaging and moaning about you to another woman? Would you be impressed with that woman?

IT REEKS OF DOUBLE STANDARDS

When women have anxiety and other MH issues..they're told their DH is causing them and leaving him will bring about an improvement.

Hypothetically, for example, @AgentJohnson, if a man is abusive, there is a reason he is abusive. Abusers are made, not born. But we here cannot judge this, because we don't know - in which case the only prudent decision is to lay off.

What? Look wether the OP is intentionally manipulating his wife or just off loading the outcome is the same. The OP appears not to understand the impact of his behaviour on his wife, intentional or not. I see nothing wrong in spelling it out. He can not change what he doesn’t acknowledge

Again, suicidal thoughts are real and the OP needs professional support and it is neither fair on his wife or his relationship for his wife to be the sole repository for his angst and fears.

@DecomposingComposers you are absolutely right, Mental Health Services are so inadequate, its horrific for anyone wanting help.

@CMA7 if you feel unable to cope over the weekend and you feel you need help, please go to your local A&E unit and ask to speak to The Crisis Team. They can come and speak to you, but please be honest with yourself. Speaking from experience, my Ex use to say the exact same things to me, all very manipulative and controlling on his part. I rang the Police the last time he threatened me with suicide, they smashed their way into his house concerned for his safety, and he sat and smirked denying he even said it.

Luckily the Police had all the evidence, and this amongst all the other things he did which was emotional abuse, cohesive and controlling behaviour, lead to A Non Mol Order, Prohibited Steps Order against him.

Even now he still plays up, but he claims its all down to his depression, which he has done nothing about in years.

If you need the help, go get it, get yourself better so your a better father/husband, but if your using your depression as an excuse to control your wife stop, because she will walk away and you only have yourself to blame.

Why have you chosen Mumsnet to post this?

Is it because you know she uses the site and might read it and know that it's you posting?

If she has fallen out of love with you, whether it had already happened or as a direct result of your attempting to control her every move and accusing her of cheating, no amount of flowers or 'Surprise! My Mum's having the kid and we're going to a hotel for a weekend of rose petals and sex to reassure me that I'm all you want' is going to fix that.

If she wants space to work out what she wants, give her that time. Threatening suicide, etc, can only strengthen her resolve to escape from what sounds like constant monitoring, blackmail and control. But respecting her boundaries might help if she does still love you, despite such awful things as waking up in the morning to be confronted by her husband demanding to know if she's had an affair the moment she opens her eyes.

Again, suicidal thoughts are real and the OP needs professional support and it is neither fair on his wife or his relationship for his wife to be the sole repository for his angst and fears.

I totally agree with you on this. However, speaking generally and not specifically about the OP, it is as difficult for an abuser to recognise the situation they're in as it is for a woman who is committed to staying with an abuser.

You're asking for "understanding" where understanding is nearly impossible without insight - and that is particularly hard-won.

OP you GIVE in order to receive.

Stop being a lazy, entitled person who treats another person like an appliance.

Do you greet her with a kiss and a hug? Bring her tea in bed after a lie in? Ask her about her day? LISTEN to her news? Hold her hand? Go with your family to the park? Generally, Pay Attention?

What about when she tries to tell you what is wrong - do you deny it is a problem? Argue with her? Ask her if she is on her period? Tell her what she thinks? Get angry?

Or do you LISTEN and ask her what it is she would like different?

You reap what you sow.

Unless she’s done something in the past which has contributed to your paranoia then this is all on you.

It could actually lead to what your worst fear is and be cheated on. I wouldn’t justify it despite your appalling behaviour. I’d be telling her to get the fuck out.

And I do have sympathy for people with real mental health issues rather than just being a cunt. However real or not the effect on your wife is the same and no one should have to put up with that.

You need to try and get a grip. If you can’t the kindest thing you could do is let her go

Do you greet her with a kiss and a hug? Bring her tea in bed after a lie in? Ask her about her day? LISTEN to her news? Hold her hand? Go with your family to the park? Generally, Pay Attention?

Does the wife do this too?

I have tried today to completely chill and not ask any questions about her phone and so on. I am constantly being asked what is wrong and why I am so quiet but just say there is nothing a matter.

See this comes across as manipulative too OP. Why on earth wouldn't you say something like "I realise I've been constantly harrassing you and in your face due to my anxiety so I have tried very hard today to concentrate on asking no questions about your phone and what you are doing. I'm trying to force my mind to understand that this issue is me not you."

or something similar.

Instead you've gone with "nothing" probably not that long after telling her you'd kill yourself if she leaves.

It's again emotional manipulation.

DH and I have previously become distant due to lack of proactiveness on his behalf and me feeling like I had an extra child and having to manage his life too. If he'd booked a dirty weekend away with no kids, I'd have a) been furious at his complete lack of sensitivity and awareness b) not have gone c) not wanted to sleep with him. There is nothing sexy about a man-child nor about one who is almost stalker-like in the watching and observing.

The other familiar line is...anything you can't show your spouse is at the very least inappropriate. I'd say it's an emotional affair....but they'll delete the messages all the time now, so you won't find out.

She only goes to work and home, nowhere else. He asks to check her phone constantly. He says he could kill himself if she leaves. Where on earth can she put all that? She has to talk to someone.

And actually so does the OP. He needs someone to talk to, preferably a counsellor but any sympathetic listening ear EXCEPT his wife's would do.

Get professional help and be honest with the professionals. Don't minimise and leave stuff out, they're mind fixers not mind readers. If you haven't already told the GP that you told your wife about being suicidal then tell them. Don't expect your wife to bear the burden of your MH issues alone. If you broke your leg badly you wouldn't expect your wife to fix it, or hobble around pitifully waiting for it to fix itself. If your mind is busted enough for you to seriously contemplate suicide- even if "only" under certain circumstances ie splitting up- then you need to get it professionally fixed and you need to do your bit.
See a psychiatrist, tell them everything, and actively participate in the fixing of your own mind.

Does the wife do this too?

Possibly. Possibly not. OP admits he is lazy. Maybe she stopped giving a shit when she realised he was happy to let her work and take in the lions share with the child. Because it was easier for him. She didnt seem to be kicking up a fuss or wanting g to leave, so he carried on not being arsed. Because it suited him.

Maybe she does do it. But he is asking what he can do.

And yes OP, how you are acting now is manipulative. You have watched her every move. Now backed right off. Having being there I can tell you she is now on edge, exepecting another emotional breakdown or that you are still watching just changing tactic. When you could simply tell her you are trying you best to back away and give her space.

Do you all think that everyone who has a mental illness is manipulative?

If someone is in pain mentally, and expresses that, is that being manipulative? I guess it depends on their motive, which you really cannot determine from this thread.

OP might be manipulative, or he might be unwell and is expressing how he feels. His wife might be being controlled or she might be having an affair. OP might be paranoid or he might be reacting to what he is seeing and experiencing.

I just don't understand how any of you can make these judgements on so little information.

DecomposingComposers thank you for being one of the select few here to appreciate there may be more to the story.

Yes I have been vague on the info in the original post. I had however posted it at 2am and my mind was in a dark place at the time.

Just to answer a few peoples points. I stumbled across mumsnet via Google when I asked how to rekindle a relationship. Unfortunately some of the answers didn't give me any further insight. The question I posed on here was to ask for help on how to go about making things right and see that I appreciate everything my wife does/ has done.

The weekend away which some of you are referring to as 'dirty' and only has one motive is completely untrue. For the people that must know we are going to Alton Towers. This is something we have spoken about for years and never got round too and I put the suggestion out there and did not put my wife under any pressure to go and made her aware the ball was firmly in her court. My motive for the weekend away was to take both our minds off of everything that has gone on and to have a bit of a new environment for a few days.

Moving on to other questions:

Yes I do work (full time).

No I do not go down my wife ls phone. Admittedly I have asked her to reassure me with some aspects as when I walk into the room she suddenly feels the need to suspiciously put her phone down in a way that looks like she was never on it.

Suspicions were raised also when I couldn't find my phone and asked to use hers to call mine. She advised this was ok and when I went to unlock it the pin code was changed. I asked why this was and was told that a phone update had prompted her to make this change. This may be completely true but when you are feeling paranoid as it is it only adds to the doubt.

With regards to the counselling I have approached my GP who advised me to make a self referral on line. I have also spoken to a family member today and opened up about what has being going on.

I am giving my wife as much space as possible and encouraging her to go out or offering to make myself scarce so she can catch up on her soaps rather than have me smother her.

I find it difficult that I asked for advise and yes admittedly it was in a selfish was and all i was getting back was what I could only detail as online abusive. Some of the people giving this abuse admitted that they were acting on the 'little information they had'. Why not ask more questions before targeting someone who asked for help not only for their mental state but also for their marriage. Yes it is not fair that my marriage has had to get to this point for my eyes to be opened and to realise I have been an arse. My wife has apologised to me and said that she hasn't helped as she has let me be set in my ways. I shut her down with this and told her there is nothing to apologise for as I should have realised my actions were wrong. I have approached her and asked of she feels I am controlling or abusive in anyway. To which her reply was not dont be so stupid. I asked her to let me know if she ever felt this way as I dont want to be like this. To be clear I have not told her that I seeked advise on here and realise it may have been the wrong site to seek advise but desperation makes you do some silly things. Hopefully none if you will be in the position I have put myself in.

CMA7

Unfortunately you've learnt a hard lesson on here - many posters on Mumsnet will automatically blame any man , regardless, and will defend any woman regardless. It isn't all posters but there is a definite leaning towards this.

If you read around some more threads you will see exactly what I mean.

You will see a thread posted by a woman where the majority of posts will be supportive and sympathetic. Their male partner will be criticized for whatever it is that he is doing.

You might then see another thread talking about the same situation but posted by a male poster where the responses will be as they have been on here.

I hope you have found some replies helpful. Try not to take the more abrasive ones to heart. It isn't about what you've said or done, it is simply because you are male. Were you to have posted this thread as though you were a woman you would have had entirely different replies.

Just with regards to the phone - any woman posting that her husband has been doing what your wife has been doing would be told to get into the phone however they can, to read the messages and take screen shots, to ask to see the messages and if refused then to assume that they are up to no good - a woman would never have been told what you have been told on here.

I hope you have found some of the advice here helpful. Maybe have a read through the relationship board - you will find lots of threads from people with similar situations to you (except they are women). Have a read through and see if some of the advice is more relevant or helpful than the advice posted on here.

Does your wife post on here?

I don’t think anyone should give you tips on “winning back” your wife.

I think she needs to leave you, and you desperately need professional help for your suicidal thoughts.

Sometimes people just shouldn’t be together.

Thank you DecomposingComposers. Even after trying to explain myself and admit what I am asking is selfish people still seem to want bring you down.

To answer more questions, no as far as I am aware my wife does not post on here. She meets up/ messages her girl friends with any issues they have.

Do you all think that everyone who has a mental illness is manipulative?

No. I think some people are manipulative. Some of those have mental health issues.

Wether it's the intention or not. Telling people you will kill yourself IS abuse. It's controlling her choices. Putting her in a position where she cant leave. Even if she wanted to, it's likely to put her off.

OP is good you are getting some help. But counselling takes time. Giving her osace is good. But if you are depressed you should think about medication too.

Your wife is unlikely to recognise abuse or actually admit to it. She may genuinely feel its not abuse. She may be unsure.

The fact remains trying to control and smother someone is abuse. Wether intentional or not the impacts are the same. It's good you are giving her space. It's also good you are telling her why you are giving her space. It's also good you have someone to confide in.

I may have been blunt, but I havent abused you at all. Pointing out your behaviour is abusive and you need help, is accurate.

I would also like to point out that a woman posting in the same position would get told the same information from me.

You do need to speak to your wife. But the converstation cant be around how much she will destroy you if she leaves.

Asking questions about her every move won't make her happy, as will not be involved in the childcare! That's obvious

OP hoe were you a 'little bit lazy' with your kid? What did you do with /for him? You obviously think child rearing is women's work. How did you treat your wife while she was pregnant /breastfeeding /on maternity leave etc? And how did you treat her when she went back to work? Have a really good think about how her life must have been.

Thank you for the response. When I mentioned to her about taking my own life it was not intentionally to trap her or anything like that. It was stupid to tell her that and I completely get what people are saying and i for one can see how it looks. Unfortunately I said it at the point where I begged her to reassure me that the messages to the guy were nothing but her supporting him with his relationship. My request was refused and I was told you dont need to see the messages and that she didn't need to justify herself. Obviosuly this raised more suspicions. At this point I thought my wife was playing mind games with me as the active status on her messenger had also been turned off. When I said to my wife about possibly taking my the response I received from her was that her conscience would be clear and that it was just selfish from me. My head was in a bad place and still is but none much. I also went in to saying that if I never did take my own life i would ensure that her and my child were left with no financial burden from me etc. My head is more straight now hence why I put the message out asking for help. It felt easier to post the message to strangers rather than talk to someone I know or a counsellor in person.

Sounds like you need counselling. The issues you have here can't be untangled by us & also everything now represents you doing your 'best'

And that needs changing, as you well know. All that stuff about being suspicious / tracking her moves / feeling too anxious and depressed to help her - it is not helping you

If anything, it will make her accelerate her leaving. If you had a friend being treated like that by her husband, would you urge her to stay? You would see it from her pov and tell her to put herself and her peace and happiness first

If any woman posted here that her husband had been doing that with his phone and had given her that reply what would she be told?

I guarantee she would not be told that she was being abusive, manipulative, too suspicious or accelerating his leaving.

If any woman posted here that her husband had been doing that with his phone and had given her that reply what would she be told?
Doing what though? The OP started this off by watching and questioning her every move. He wanted to know who she was messaging, she told him. She showed him. She wouldn't let him actually READ the messages but who would when confronted with a paranoid, controlling partner. I wouldn't.
The OP didn't just use the threat of suicide to keep her in line, he FOLLOWED IT UP by pretty much telling her that if she drove him to it, there'd be no financial burden on her.
If I was 'stuck' in a situation with an abusive partner I'd never, ever share my messages because, no matter how innocent, they'd probably be twisted and used for further control. The OPs posts are sickeningly self indulgent.

Anyway, I absolutely think the OP should leave his wife. Which is what you are alluding to right? That a woman would be told to leave. So yes, the OP should leave. Same result, we just see it differently.