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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Worried about my sister - her DP trying to get her to have abortion

270 replies

iwouldgoouttonight · 20/07/2007 15:39

I've just had a call from my sister, in tears, telling me how she's recently discovered she's about 2 months pregnant. Her and her DP are, on the face of it, in an ideal situation to start a family - been together a while, just got engaged, comfortably off, big house together, etc, etc. But her DP has been married before and already has children and absolutely doesn't want any more. He has various reasons, e.g. he's a bit older and doesn't want to go back to the sleepless nights, not being able to go out so much, less money, etc and also has issues with his ex wife trying to get more maintenance out of him.

My sister really really wants children of her own (rather than just helping to look after his at weekends) and this has been an issue with them for a while.

They've got an appointment at an abortion clinic this afternoon and I'm worried he'll talk her into agreeing to an abortion even though its not what she really wants. She's terrified of him leaving her if she keeps the baby, but I said if he's the kind of person who would leave her for that he's not worth being with anyway.

I've had an abortion and I know its not the kind of thing to enter into if you're not 100% sure - I knew I was too young, couldn't offer a baby a stable home, not in a good relationship with partner at the time, etc and I still had problems dealing with it afterwards and have been through several counselling sessions to help me with the decision I made. I just don't want her to have the abortion knowing that she really wanted the baby and then have to live with that afterwards.

I know there's nothing I can do now - they're probably at the appointment now - I've said most of what I've written here to her on the phone so she went off having decided to keep the baby and confront her DP. I just hope he doesn't talk her out of it by threatening to leave her. Not sure what anyone else can say - I just wanted to get it off my chest really.

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 12/09/2007 01:19

Just hope you are okay, IWGOT.

BobCrowsBitch · 12/09/2007 07:22

I hope you mangaed to talk to her yesterday IWGOT.

I hope she came to her senses too...

BobCrowsBitch · 12/09/2007 07:23

(sorry, its LTH)

iwouldgoouttonight · 12/09/2007 09:55

Thank you to everyone for all your supportive and honest comments. I eventually got hold of my sister last night and she went through with it.

I can't believe it.

She was actually really calm, just said she feels relieved that now the grief she's been getting from her DP will stop. So obviously he's being all nice now, he's got what he wants, the selfish heartless bastard. I think my parents will have to find out eventually because when we get together as a family its going to be very obvious how me and my DP feel about her DP.

Apparently they now have a "two year plan" during which they're get married, buy another house and try for another baby. Or more like, he'll get the snip as soon as possible.

I can't face talking to her at the minute because she still is totally naive about the enormity of what she's done and how weak she's been in actually being talked into it.

I'm really sorry again for making who read this upset, but I really really appreciate everyone's support.

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 12/09/2007 10:02

I'm so sorry she visited this upon you, Iwould. How very upsetting for you and your family.

I would be so angry she dragged me into it, if this were my sister.

What an awful situation to be in.

expatinscotland · 12/09/2007 10:15

I wish you strength, too.

You are a much bigger person than I am.

I honestly don't think I could ever speak to her 'partner' again or even look at him without spitting, tbh.

Or her, for that matter.

I know that sounds harsh, but nowhere near as harsh as what that baby went through.

Yes, I am pro-choice, but I find what they did really sickening.

I honestly don't know how such a creature as her partner can live with themselves.

catsmother · 12/09/2007 11:06

I'm so sorry ..... and so sorry you have been dragged into this. I feel angry with your sister for placing you in the unenviable position of holding such knowledge - and having to deal with the emotions it arouses.

You have to wonder on what basis this abortion was granted. I presume on the assumption that the mental health of your sister would be affected were she to have had the child, as it wasn't on physical, medical grounds relating to either her or the baby. It's cases like these though which make me question the whole abortion debate (I appreciate it's often not as simple as balck & white) though because it seems too easy sometimes - and on the balance of probability, I'd hazard a guess that if your sister's mental health was going to be affected, it's more likely to be as a result of having the abortion, as opposed to keeping the child ....

.... in truth, had she kept the child, her lifestyle may have changed for the "worse" (though would hardly have catapulted her into poverty by the sounds of it) and the "grief" from her bastard of a so-called fiancee may have continued. They may have split up. Do those circumstances really justify an abortion ?

The fact she's now "calm" because he's stopped giving her a hard time and she's relying on this 2 year plan gets to the truth of the matter. I can't help wondering what the clinic would have said if she'd applied for an abortion on the basis that she wanted the "grief" from her fiancee to stop ? Kinda makes a mockery of the whole abortion rationale ...... to my mind, it should not be used as a form of contraception, which it clearly has been in this case.

I feel sorry for your sister but I also feel very angry with her, when she was in a far far better position than many women who unexpectedly find themselves pregnant. If, and it's a very big if (because I don't believe it will happen) the pair of them ever go on to have a child, then what on earth will the point of this have been ?? You have an abortion (amongst many reasons) because you're with the wrong person (well, she is, but she doesn't think so ..) or because it's the "wrong" time (as in, say, you are living on an extremely low income and a baby would push you over the edge, but that doesn't appear to apply), or, because you don't want children at all (she does, he doesn't - so should get the snip (or castrated)).

The ONLY reason this has happened is because he is a selfish, bullying, emotionally blackmailing bastard who thinks only of himself and is prepared to use his existing children (and what will they be told about this ? Will your sister have had a "miscarriage" ? Will they be told the "truth", but your sister will get "blamed" for it ? ..... I can't see them being told that the baby was destroyed .... no, ..... killed because their dad was more interested in fancy cars ) to get what he wants. WHY would you have a child with someone like that ?

I guess I feel angry that your sister and this pathetic, nasty excuse for a man have actually abused the "system". Abortion laws weren't designed to assist adults capable of being responsible (in theory) for their own fertility, who were stupid enough to get pregnant and then declare it a mistake - him, because he's a selfish git who should have put his money where his mouth was and got seen to (though I have this nagging gut instinct that this twat might be the sort who sees vasectomy as some sort of threat to his manhood, and is therefore prepared to take risks and worry about the consequences later) - and her, because if she wants a child, and is capable of supporting one (albeit without the nuclear family, roses round teh door fantasy) then to have gone ahead on the say so of someone else (as opposed to it being her own free choice) seems very hypocritical and very cruel.

I shall be astonished if they haven't broken up within months. She might be putting on a brave face at the moment, sweeping this under the carpet and pinning all her hopes on a 2 year plan (she should actually be questionning why a 2 year plan is apparently necessary ??) but I can't believe that she won't be hugely and adversely affected by what she's done. She will start to hate him, if she doesn't already and I can only assume that she must have incredibly low self esteem if she's prepared to let this bastard dictate something of this enormity to her. As for him, he'll have been squirming these past few months and will feel like celebrating now, I bet he thinks he's had a "lucky escape" (thanks to his convincing lie about 2 year plans to twist her arm) but if he's not thinking it already, he'll soon come to regard her as a huge risk to his hedonistic lifestyle (she's got pregnant once, she can do so again) and if he's not honest enough to break up directly, he'll be nitpicking away at everything she does until she makes the decision to go instead.

This is one of the most upsetting threads I've read on here and again, I'm so sorry you've been dragged into it. She may have felt confused, and had a need to talk, but there are impartial, trained and professional 3rd parties she could have turned to instead, so you would not have had to deal with all this angst. I wouldn't be telling tales so to speak on her to the rest of the family, but on the other hand, were any of them to question your apparent coolness towards her and this "man" (I refuse to call him an actual man) I'd have no qualms then in explaining why.

sweetkitty · 12/09/2007 11:14

I have been following this thread with shock, catsmother has so eloquently summed up my feelings as well.

I cannot believe a man would bully the woman he loves into having a late abortion which lets face it, is killing a baby then making her deliver it dead, it's totally horrendous. She may be putting a brave face on it but in a few weeks time the reality of what she has done will hit her, I don't see how their relationship will survive so she will lose him and she's already lost her baby.

Iwould - I really feel for you being caught up in all this, you sound so upset, I would tell your parents as surely they would want to know what kind of man your sister is with, why should you hide it and pretend everything is fine and dandy.

FloriaTosca · 12/09/2007 11:16

I've only just seen this thread and all I can say is that you are the most amazing caring sister and that she is an utter imbecile to have allowed herself to be brainwashed by that bd.

My baby died at 17wks in utero and I gave birth to her on September 1st last year...I needed tranquilizers to stop me just standing there doing nothing when I haemorraged and to dull the urge to simply drive off the edge of bridges for months afterwards...My husband had not really wanted a child but felt that my need to have one was greater than his lack of need...it nearly wrecked our marriage because he hadnt felt for her as I did and couldn't possibly feel the same depth of grief I was suffering.
The anniversary 11 days ago had me back in a similar state as I remembered all the dreadful details, minute by minute.... and this despite the fact that my DH had come round to feeling the same about having children as I did and we had reached 33 weeks pregnant with the little one I'm still carrying by that date.

Your sister is going to need all the help she can get over the next weeks, months and years when she realises the enormity of what she has done and who/what she has done it for. I hope you can find it in the depths of your heart to forgive her..I doubt I could.

expatinscotland · 12/09/2007 11:18

I agree, sweet. I couldn't keep such a thing from the rest of my family. Why should Iwould have to put on a brave face and play make believe? SHE didn't make the choice to do such an awful thing and drag her siblings into the fray? I see no reason why she should have to cover for this.

lanismum · 12/09/2007 11:38

IWGOT I am so sorry I really cant believe she went through with it, and i'm quite shocked that the clinic perfomed such a late abortion for non medical reasons (for the most awful reasons I can think of...a bigger house ffs!)
I really would never be able to even look at either of them again tbh.

kindersurprise · 12/09/2007 11:41

IWGOT
I am so desperately sorry, I really hoped that she would change her mind at the last minute. It has been on my mind all day today.

I am sad for the baby, and angry, both at your sister and especially her partner. How could she be so naive to think that everything will go on as before? I cannot believe that she will get over this, you wrote that she has always wanted children. How she could put that selfish bastards feelings above her own wishes and the life of her unborn child, I will never understand.

I am pro-choice, but I agree with other posters that this was an abuse of the system. Abortion should not be emergency contraception.

They will not be able to keep this quiet from your family, not when the children were already aware of the pregnancy. It is obvious that you have been very affected by this, perhaps now is the time for you to take a step back and concentrate on your lovely DH and DCs. She will definately need you soon as I am sure her relationship will not survive this. You sound like a strong woman who loves her sister very much, she is lucky to have you.

expatinscotland · 12/09/2007 11:42

It's just incredibly awful, really.

Nope, couldn't talk to any sister of mine who did this again. And I'd make sure everyone knew why.

lanismum · 12/09/2007 11:45

I just really cant understand the clinic....is it REALLY that easy to get such a late abortion, even if your are paying? apparently so

expatinscotland · 12/09/2007 11:50

Yeah, I'm rather disgusted that there are clinics around who so blantantly offer these types of 'services' so late in the game for such flimsy reasons.

I hope your sister realises that such a late abortion can compromise her fertility later on - she's had a major procedure and should have been given post op instructions to follow.

Sad though it may seem, anyone who does such a thing because of their selfish partner is just as bad as he is.

Dawnybabe · 12/09/2007 12:11

I have followed this thread this morning and just wanted to add my opinion.

You have to tell your sister that this man has made her kill her baby and that he is far too selfish to ever want another one if he is capable of doing that. You have to tell your parents that he has killed their grandchild. He needs to be made aware that what he has done is unforgivable and your sister needs to leave him now. Their lives will never be the same again and she might meet someone else with whom she can be herself and really happy.

For gods sake get her out of there. If you need any help I'm sure you could muster up quite a crowd of volunteers judging by the outpouring on here.

expatinscotland · 12/09/2007 12:14

But Dawny, at the end of the day, she agreed to the procedure. She laid on the table and let them drug her out and do a late abortion.

She doesn't want to leave him. She wants to stay with him, and she's willing to do anything, even what some may consider the ultimate in low, to keep him.

I hope she doesn't even have any kids, tbh. What kind of a mother puts the desires of some selfish bastard above her own baby?

ellis65 · 12/09/2007 12:16

i too followed this thread with interest and i must say i am totally gobsmacked, i think your sister and her partner should be totally ashamed of themselves, and i think you should give them a wide berth! They don;t deserve you, i feel absolutely sick at the both of them, i hope the relationship fails and she is left on her own. Just like her baby!!!

pooka · 12/09/2007 12:18

I am so so angry about this. And so sad too.

It's cases like these that really add fuel to the anti-choice brigade. Because while I am pro-choice in general, to leave this to 18 weeks knowing (or rather, believing) that you'd be trying again for a baby "at the right time" fgs - that's just ridiculous. Makes a mockery of it.

God knows how she'll come to terms with it. And how terrible for you to feel party to this horrible business.

JodieG1 · 12/09/2007 12:19

That poor baby, I can't even bear to think about it

expatinscotland · 12/09/2007 12:35

'God knows how she'll come to terms with it.'

Sadly, pooka, there are some truly callous people out there who honestly don't have a problem coming to terms with such a thing.

BertolinaBrecht · 12/09/2007 12:37

Oh no. The poor baby.

When it hits her she will be in hell.

expatinscotland · 12/09/2007 12:39

If it ever does, Berolina.

I mean, if someone is low life enough to allow such a thing to happen to her own, healthy flesh and blood, to have seen her very own baby moving around on a scan, FFS, and then go and 'get rid' of it because of a bloke, I would reckon the only thing that will hit them is their own pitifully selfish feelings of relief.

LilyLivered · 12/09/2007 12:44

IWGOT - I've thought long and hard whether or not I should contribute to this thread but decided that since it's developed along the lines of judging your sister pretty harshly (understandably btw), I thought you might benefit from hearing a point of view closer to your sisters.

I was 23 yrs and married for a year when I got pregnant unplanned. DH and I were living in his brother's box-room, DH was a full-time carer for his parents and I'd just got a job out of uni and we planned for me to get a mortgage to add to his savings so we could move out.

DH and I had discussed this possiblity but he'd always insisted that I should get rid and tbh, I didn't argue because I thought I could change his mind when it came to it.

Anyway, he didn't. He did make me go through with it. I cried, he argued, I reasoned, he stormed about, I left, he came and got me - you get the picture.

I would have gone to my family but I was estranged from them (they didn't agree with me marrying DH). I had no close friends to go to for support. DH was all I had and, I thought, all I wanted.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, I eventually gave in. I realised that I couldn't raise a baby alone and I thought that he mattered more to me than a yet unknown entity being my baby. He drove me to the clinic, I went in without him. I hated him at that point but knew it was my decision - I could have left but I chose not to. I didn't want to blame him at a later date.

So I sat along with all the 16 year olds sobbing into their mother's shoulders, endured countless disapproving glares from nurses who obviously thought that married woman contemplating an abortion = selfish, was forced to look at a scan of my belly revealing not one but two tiny little 8 wk old foetuses swimming around oblivious to all the trouble they were causing. Sobbed my heart out while putting on my gown, lay out on a trolley, I couldn't help but notice the spatters of blood on the surgeon's gown and the pungent smell of blood in the theatre itself...

Everything else is a blur tbh. Even now I can't think of it without a huge lump in my throat and I sob my heart out regularly. I've never forgiven DH, even though we've gone on to have another DC. More importantly, he's never forgiven himself. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've seen him cry and two of those times were when we were discussing the termination.

All I'm saying is - don't be too hard on your sister. She will suffer enough believe me. Whatever your judgement is of whether or not she was in a position to have a child, she obviously thought it was an impossiblity otherwise she would never have gone through with it.

The only thing she did wrong is, IMO, sharing it with you. I do think that was incredibly selfish of her considering she didn't take your views into account. At the end of the day, it's done now and she has to live with the consequences. From what you've said of her, she was in bits just making the decision let alone dealing with the aftermath.

I hope you don't mind me adding my two penneth - I only mean to help you see things from her point of view and maybe relieve some of your pain.

expatinscotland · 12/09/2007 12:52

It is entirely beyond the scope of my comprehension why anyone would find a man who bullies a person into an abortion of his own children worthy of ANYTHING other than disgust and contempt.

I cannot believe there are such horrible people in this world.

I've had my share of 'oh no, what ifs', and shared them with my partner at the time, but never once got a person who suggested making that kind of decision for me.

And it's a good thing, too, cuz he'd have been on the ground before he knew what hit him.

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