Worried about my sister - her DP trying to get her to have abortion

[iwouldgoouttonight]

I've just had a call from my sister, in tears, telling me how she's recently discovered she's about 2 months pregnant. Her and her DP are, on the face of it, in an ideal situation to start a family - been together a while, just got engaged, comfortably off, big house together, etc, etc. But her DP has been married before and already has children and absolutely doesn't want any more. He has various reasons, e.g. he's a bit older and doesn't want to go back to the sleepless nights, not being able to go out so much, less money, etc and also has issues with his ex wife trying to get more maintenance out of him.

My sister really really wants children of her own (rather than just helping to look after his at weekends) and this has been an issue with them for a while.

They've got an appointment at an abortion clinic this afternoon and I'm worried he'll talk her into agreeing to an abortion even though its not what she really wants. She's terrified of him leaving her if she keeps the baby, but I said if he's the kind of person who would leave her for that he's not worth being with anyway.

I've had an abortion and I know its not the kind of thing to enter into if you're not 100% sure - I knew I was too young, couldn't offer a baby a stable home, not in a good relationship with partner at the time, etc and I still had problems dealing with it afterwards and have been through several counselling sessions to help me with the decision I made. I just don't want her to have the abortion knowing that she really wanted the baby and then have to live with that afterwards.

I know there's nothing I can do now - they're probably at the appointment now - I've said most of what I've written here to her on the phone so she went off having decided to keep the baby and confront her DP. I just hope he doesn't talk her out of it by threatening to leave her. Not sure what anyone else can say - I just wanted to get it off my chest really.

I can understand why you feel that way, Expat, really I do but:

(a) Sometimes things aren't black and white. DH had to choose between his unborn child and his parents (who no one else in the family would care for). he chose them - over me and his babies. I'm not saying that the OP's sisters DP is in a similar dilemma or what the value of that dilemma is - whether it's worth the life of a baby. But we don't know, do we? It seems black and white to us, and to the OP but we just don't know; and

(b) No one can really blame the DP - he did "bully" the OP's sister, yes but she had plenty of outs - the counsellor at the clinic, her sister, her parents. She can't blame him - he didn't drag her into the clinic. She walked in of her own free will.

Anyway, wasn't my intention to stir up any debate - just wanted to give another point of view

Lily, I really feel for you and as the mother of daughters, I have to honestly say I hope mine don't wind up married to a man like your DH. Why? Because when a man marries a woman, his priority is his wife and their children. If he knew he had such an extreme duty to his parents, then why get married until after they died? You dishonour your wife and the vows you made to her by chosing them over your own wife and children. 'I promise to love, honour and cherish you, foresaking all others'. What's the point in marrying someone when you already know you are not in a position to honour your marriage vows?

And sex makes people pregnant. The choice was yours not his, and when a man bullies a woman like this, he's not allowing her to make that choice about her body, her fertility, her future.

This is a woman who allowed this to happen to her own child for the sake of a man.

I'm so unbelievably sorry.

I can't believe a clinic would do such a thing

IWGOT, all thoughts to you. Take care of yourself in the first instance, this is a truly horrible situation for you to find yourself in.

I'm not saying I think you're wrong - I think you're right. I did make a mistake - I shouldn't have chosen DH over my babies. But DH made a similar mistake - he shouldn't have chosen his parents over his wife and babies. His mistake is no greater than mine and I don't think I've the right to be any harsher on him than I am on myself.

I just think, not just for me but also for the OPs sister, it's done now. If her DH is still being an twat and refuses to see that he's done anything wrong, then feel free to judge him. But if, like mine and like me, he comes to realise the consequences of his error and to spend the rest of his life regretting it, what's the point in judging him? Or her for that matter?

Just wanted to say how desperately sorry I feel for you and your family, IWGOT.

Someone very close to me had an abortion following a rape when she was 15. It screwed her up for the next 20 years, even though it would have been her rapist's child.

I can't imagine how anyone in your sister's situation would agree to abortion.

My heart goes out to everyone on this thread who has lost a child.

I really dont know what to say....im so shocked

This is a nasty, nasty situation, and so very sad, probably the saddest thing I've read on MN in four years. However, there's no use now in making the OP's sister suffer any further through either withdrawing support, telling the grandparents etc. What would that achieve? The woman is clearly in an abusive relationship that has warped her usual rationale and what she is done is going to haunt her daily for the rest of her life. She's optimistic about her current relationship and is wrong to be optimistic; that relationship is going to end, sooner or later, and most likely very unhappily, and then the enormity of her decision is going to hit her even harder. I think she should be offered all the emotional support and sound advice you can possibly bring yourself to muster because whatever her '2 year plan' she is going to be in a bad way now and it's only going to get worse. I would push strongly for counselling in the hope that family, friends and a sympathetic professional can together accelerate the time it takes for her to recognise that her OH is a poisonous and obscene individual who does not deserve the love of a decent woman. When she realises this she is going to feel ruined right to the depths of her soul. This is so, so sad, I really hope she can live with this event and move on, quickly.

It's terrible that there was a baby involved in this but the situation is just so common; she's been horrendously mentally abused over the last 18 weeks and doesn't even see it. My situation with ex doesn't even come close but even to look back five years...I'm an educated woman with strong feminist sensibilities and still managed to get involved with an emotionally abusive partner and not even see it while it was happening. It happens; our emotional responses and patterns of logical thought get pummelled until they simply do not function any longer. So, so sad.

I think it's equally unfair to tell the OP to swallow her own feelings in order to support this individual. Why should she force herself to do that straightaway? She didn't ask to be dragged into the situation.

If the gal needs support she should see a counsellor.

I agree with every single word expat has said.

I hope to god your sister is the type of person who gets over this easily because if shes not...well, god knows the state she'll be in.

I can't believe shes done it.

I wonder how such people grow up to be so awful. I mean, what went wrong down the line?

Sad though this story is, I don't think its any kind of argument in favour of preventing late abortions. 'As early as possible, as late as necessary' is still an important right for women to hold on to (NO-ONE is entitled to take away a woman's choice, whatever we may think of her choice or her reasons for making it).
ANd I don't think it would be at all a good idea for IWGOT to engage in any kind of punitive action like telling other family members what happened. That would just make a bad sitation worse.

I'm sorry you've been put in such a shitty situation, IWGOT, and I think you might find it helpful to talk to a counselor or support group on your own account (or at least, the Samaritans, who listen and offer no judgement at all).

Lilylivered, that was a very brave and moving post to contribute to a discussion that has otherwise taken on a rather harshly self-righteous tone.

I hope you and your DH find much happiness and joy in your dc, even if you will always mourn the children you lost.

Oh jesus, I didn't think she would go through with it

God almighty, what a cruel fucker he is.

However, I do know that if any sister of mine were to do this and fill me in on details along the way, she & I would be finished.

expat, you are rightly outraged by this, but I do feel you are getting needlessly harsh. Are you pro-choice? You talk very emotively about this situation and I wonder if your politics are influencing this.

Things often seem very straightforward from the outside, but to me this sounds like a very clear case of emotional abuse which is always very complicated. I think IWGOT's sister was very stupid to do what she did, but I do feel she had been co-erced into it by a bully and so has a diminished responsibility.

Remember how vulnerable you feel when pregnant, imagine being constantly pressured and bullied in your own home, a place of former safety by someone you thought loved you and could be trusted. It must be a terrible experience. remember that she has never had a child so the enormity of what she has done really isn't a reality for her. Yet. It will come down upon her in the coming months, I guarantee you. When she sees pregnant women, babies and little kids it will hit her and hit her over and over. I don't doubt that her relationship will be permanently damaged, but perhaps her partner will use it to control her further? He sounds the sort. I feel great pity for her, I wish her speedy enlightenment and recovery.

Does it matter, dizietsma ?

This is a board to express opinions, after all.

And FWIW, others feel the same way in this thread. Others do not.

I am just as emotive as others about this topic. I fail to see what is so bad about that.

and FWIW, it's IWGOT's decision as to how she choses to address her sister and the partner after this.

As for my 'politics', well, I have not expressed them on this thread and fail to see what bearing they have on my posts in this thread.

I am of the opinion that at the end of the day, no matter what, this is a grown woman who chose to go through with it.

If it were my sibling and she dragged me into it, then yes, it would be the end of our relationship. I couldn't 'support' someone who did this for the reasons she did, but there are plenty of people who would so I'd advise her to seek that out and leave me be.

But it's IWGOT's decision.

Thanks Zazette - our DC gives us enormous joy although we will never forget our other babies.

I can understand why other posters and even the OP may judge harshly - for all of us, as mothers, it's hard to understand why a mother would use someone over her child. For someone who's yet to become a mother though, the choice feels different - a choice between someone you know and someone you are yet to know....

I don't know - I'm not defending the OP's sister or her DH. I'm simply saying that we're not in their shoes so we can't say how they're feeling or are going to feel.

We can sympathise with the OP though - it's a terrible burden to carry for her sister. Personally, I have never shared what I went through with any of my friends and family - I couldn't expect them not to judge me. Also - especially for my family - it's a bereavement for them as they've lost a grandchild/niece/nephew. I just don't want to put anyone through any more pain - mine and DH's is enough.

I hope the OP certainly looks into getting counselling - it's been a terrible few weeks for her and she's suffered a loss which she needs to grieve for. My thoughts are with her...

choose not use someone - sorry

I'm just suggesting that someone anti-choice might be more outraged and more damning than otherwise because they have belief that a foetus has the same rights and feelings as a full-term baby. This is not a universal belief and I wanted to make clear what your political affiliations were so people could read your posts and understand that they were coloured with a bias in a certain direction.

WTF does being pro-choice - or pro-life for that matter - have to do with thinking that going through a late second trimester abortion because your house is too small is f*&ked up?

Was I one of the posters who said what this poor OP's sister did was an abuse of abortion laws? Um, no, I think not. I think that makes how I feel about abortion pretty clear, and I certainly won't be bullied into turning this into a political argument because it isn't - nothing about this thread has been.

Coloured with a bias?

Honestly, dizietsma, get a GRIP!

I'm not making any judgements on your opinions, just curious as to where all the vitriol is coming from. I'm theorising that it might be because you are anti-choice, and your hedging the issue is pretty much confirming that. You are the most damning of IWGOT's sister of all posters so far and I was wondering where that originated from. That's all.

Your 'theory' is wrong, dizie. I'm pro-choice.

But feel free to waste time speculating about random strangers' beliefs systems.

'Hedging the issue'.

You know, I'm glad I'll soon be changing my name.

I've had a couple of stalkers on here.

You flatter yourself a bit, I think expat.