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Original poster

Worried about my sister - her DP trying to get her to have abortion

270 replies

iwouldgoouttonight · 20/07/2007 15:39

I've just had a call from my sister, in tears, telling me how she's recently discovered she's about 2 months pregnant. Her and her DP are, on the face of it, in an ideal situation to start a family - been together a while, just got engaged, comfortably off, big house together, etc, etc. But her DP has been married before and already has children and absolutely doesn't want any more. He has various reasons, e.g. he's a bit older and doesn't want to go back to the sleepless nights, not being able to go out so much, less money, etc and also has issues with his ex wife trying to get more maintenance out of him.

My sister really really wants children of her own (rather than just helping to look after his at weekends) and this has been an issue with them for a while.

They've got an appointment at an abortion clinic this afternoon and I'm worried he'll talk her into agreeing to an abortion even though its not what she really wants. She's terrified of him leaving her if she keeps the baby, but I said if he's the kind of person who would leave her for that he's not worth being with anyway.

I've had an abortion and I know its not the kind of thing to enter into if you're not 100% sure - I knew I was too young, couldn't offer a baby a stable home, not in a good relationship with partner at the time, etc and I still had problems dealing with it afterwards and have been through several counselling sessions to help me with the decision I made. I just don't want her to have the abortion knowing that she really wanted the baby and then have to live with that afterwards.

I know there's nothing I can do now - they're probably at the appointment now - I've said most of what I've written here to her on the phone so she went off having decided to keep the baby and confront her DP. I just hope he doesn't talk her out of it by threatening to leave her. Not sure what anyone else can say - I just wanted to get it off my chest really.

OP posts:
harpsichordcuddler · 20/07/2007 18:36

well people do get pregnant by accident, in fact.
no one forced him to have sex with her. if he really dones't want any more children he should have had the snip.

wannaBe · 20/07/2007 18:53

Tbh it sounds to me as if there is more to this. man doesn't want children, and has made it abundently clear that he doesn't want any more children, yet woman desperately wants them and has got engaged to man who has made it clear he doesn't want them. And suddenly she's "accidentally" pregnant? Is it possible she got pregnant deliberately in the hope that once she actually was pregnant, her fiance would come round and be happy? Except now it has blown up in her face because he's threatened to leave?

Sorry but if a partner made it clear to me he didn't want any children and I did I would walk away. Anyone who gets together with someone in the hope of changing their mind is deluding themselves and is, IMO, selfish.

UCM · 20/07/2007 18:58

It sounds to me like she may have not worried about getting pg as when it actually happened and she told him, expected him to be happy. I sort of did something similar with DH but he DID come around and there were exceptional circumstances and he didn't have any children from previous relationships.

Poor poor woman. How old is she? Will she cope with being a single parent. The very fact that he is already a father shows that he already knows what hard work having children is (in his opinion) so I don't hold out much hope for them really.

bookwormtailmum · 20/07/2007 19:12

Have skimmed thread and I hope that your sister made the right decision for her and not him. He already has children after all, and presumably he was a willing bed partner when she fell pg?

expatinscotland · 20/07/2007 19:16

If he didn't ever want any more children then he should have had a vasectomy.

'Sorry but if a partner made it clear to me he didn't want any children and I did I would walk away. Anyone who gets together with someone in the hope of changing their mind is deluding themselves and is, IMO, selfish. '

I agree. And all this bs about how you 'can't chose who you fall in love with' is just taht. You can chose not to continue seeing someone the second they tell you how they feel about something like that. You're a grown adult in full control of your actions and even your emotions. Even if you do 'fall in love' with someone like that, you can most certainly chose what you do about that.

The only time you can change a male is if he's wearing a nappy.

OrmIrian · 20/07/2007 20:03

skiddoodle - why is that bizarre. Are you saying that a new child in a new relationship doesn't affect your previous children? Shouldn't the needs of your children come before those of your new partner?

FioFio · 20/07/2007 20:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

theman · 21/07/2007 01:48

i don't see how he is being anymore repugnant and self-serving than her, it is obviously a reasonable justification in his mind and one that his fiance was aware of from the beginning.i think telling her from the off was the right thing to do and her getting pregnant in the hope of forcing him to be a father is just as selfish as him trying to force her not to be a mother.

Original poster
iwouldgoouttonight · 21/07/2007 20:08

Thanks for everyone's comments - I didn't get the chance to use the computer much yesterday so have only just read them.

My sister and her DP went to the abortion clinic yesterday, she went in to chat to the counsellor and ended up in tears telling her how she felt, that she didn't want to terminate the pregnancy but knew that DP didn't want the baby. The counsellor said she wouldn't refer her for the termination if she wasn't sure so sent her away to think more about it. I spoke to her last night and she has told DP that she wants the baby, even if it means they split up. She said she understands if he wants to walk away and she wouldn't expect any maintenance/help from him if he didn't want anything to do with her.

From what she's said the pregnancy was sort of an accident - she missed a pill and didn't take any other precautions. I believe her when she said she didn't expect to get pregnant - if she had been plotting it she wouldn't have immediately made an appointment at the abortion clinic as soon as she found out. BUT I think deep down, even though she won't admit it, she was hoping that if she actually got pregnant her DP would change his mind.

I'm so glad she's not had a termination when she really didn't want to, but am worried about her and her DP's future. He was very angry last night and talked about leaving her, she's ruined his life, etc but apparently they've talked more rationally today and he's apologised for his angry reaction. But he's still not happy and doing things like trying to get her to drink alcohol when they're out, kind of assuming she'll change her mind and not really have the baby.

I really feel for her - I don't think its that simple to leave someone you love even though you know you both want different things. I feel for him too - like you say he knows how much work it is bringing up children, but they were both part of her getting pregnant, and I agree if he was so definite about wanting no more children he should have had the snip.

I'll just be there for her if she wants to talk.

OP posts:
NKF · 21/07/2007 20:14

She should realise that by the time the baby's born, she'll have lost interest in her fiance anyway. Babies much more endearing than men.

aviatrix · 21/07/2007 20:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

expatinscotland · 21/07/2007 21:07

'She said she understands if he wants to walk away and she wouldn't expect any maintenance/help from him if he didn't want anything to do with her. '

I hope she comes to her senses. It's his responsibility, too, financially at least and if he felt that strongly about not fathering any more children then he should have been a man about it and had the snip.

She's better off without him.

He sounds like a twat.

muppetgirl · 21/07/2007 21:18

Have to say my brother married his wife knowing that she didn't want kids -she was a career woman doing a phd etc etc- he always thought she would change her mind.
She never did (and why should she? she had been incredibly honest.)
They divorced as they just couldn't agree.

It seems a shame but your sisters dp was just as honest right from the start, though he could have worn a condom to really prevent anything happening and she should have known that a missed pill can result in reduced protection.

expatinscotland · 21/07/2007 21:20

Or had the snip, muppet.

IMO, if you really don't ever want kids again, then that's what you do because we all know contraception can fail, but the snip is incredibly effective once a man's got the all-clear.

nightowl · 21/07/2007 21:22

the pill can fail anyway, if he was so sure, he should have had the snip, no need then to rely on her taking the pill. he was the one who didnt want any more kids and so he should have taken precautions also.

nightowl · 21/07/2007 21:23

snap expat!

eleusis · 22/07/2007 10:10

I think he is being selfish because asking someone to terminate a very wanted baby is very different from asking them never to get pregnant in the first place.

I do think this baby will become more important to her than he is.

And he is soooooooooo bang out of order trying to convince her to drink. So he wants to have a damaged baby rather than a healthy one? JERK. That is his son/daughter whether he likes it or not.

hellobello · 22/07/2007 11:42

It's really very simple - if you don't want babies you don't have sex with someone who does. It is such a fundamental thing. I was in a similar situation with dh and I had to say that if he really didn't want children then we must go our separate ways. Anyway here we are with 2 of them!

OrmIrian · 23/07/2007 10:17

I tend to agree with some of the sentiment with regard to not having sex if you don't want babies. He took that chance. But I don't suppose many people here would accept that argument against a woman choosing to have an abortion. Unwilling parenthood is never ideal is it, be it the mother or the father who is unwilling?

IrishMammyto2 · 23/07/2007 11:06

I agree OrmIrian, but so often you hear of people who once they used to the idea of being a parent, (either for the first time or for subsequent babies) are really good at parenting and so glad they didn't follow through with an abortion.

Unfortunatly it is one of those things one cant predict until after the event, so to speak.

Original poster
iwouldgoouttonight · 23/07/2007 14:44

The saga continues - he had started to be more reasonable and talk about it, but has admitted today it was just because he thought he could talk her out of keeping the baby, and now he's gone back to being really angry and she's scared to go home and face him tonight.

It seems that a lot of his arguments for not wanting another child are financial, which I could understand if they were struggling, but they're very comfortably off, they just might eventually have to move house to one with more bedrooms. She keeps telling him that a baby doesn't have to cost much - he won't have to give up his extravagent lifestyle (he likes his designer clothes, fancy cars, etc) but he seems to be convinced they'll have to live in a hovel and never be able to go on holiday ever again. Admittedly they may have to prioritise their spending differently, but between them they earn over twice as much as me and my DP and we still manage to live a nice (if basic!) life.

I just don't know what to suggest to her - it sems an impossible situation - she wants the baby, he doesn't - neither want to compromise. Poor thing, I know she probably shouldn't have got herself in this deep, probably should have split up when they realised they wanted different things, but she's so upset now - I wish I lived closer to her to give her a big hug!

OP posts:
flack · 23/07/2007 14:54

He is a selfish pig and should have had the snip by now if he was so sure he wanted no more. Else he would compromise if he loved her and let her get something she wants out of life, too.

Designer clothes, holidays, fancy cars he's made it clear what is and isn't important in his life doesn't sound like your sister is on the list.

eleusis · 23/07/2007 15:07

Oh, this sounds dreadful. I do think that if she is scared to go home, then she shouldn't go home. Where does she live? Does she have somewhere else to go?

meemar · 23/07/2007 15:07

It sounds very unlikely that he is going to change his mind, which is perfectly within his rights.

What he doesn't have a right to do is to continue to pressure her into having a termination that she doesn't want because it doesn't fit in to his extravagant lifestyle dream. That is totally selfish and insensitive at a time where she is already dealing with the extra homonal and physical difficulties of being pg.

If she is certain in her mind she wants the baby (with or without him), she should move out and give herself space and time to come to terms with her situation. There will be time to deal with him later, but right now she needs to concentrate on her own well being and pregnancy.

madamez · 23/07/2007 15:10

It isn't actually wrong to prefer a comfortable lifestyle over parenthood. Where this man has been in the wrong was in not having the snip if he didn't want any more kids, as others have said. Was he, I wonder, one of these men who, while saying they do not want to have any children, still want plenty of sex but regard preventing the conception of unwanted children as the woman's job.
As far as your sister is concerned, the pregnancy has happened, it's up to her to decide what to do about it now. THough if she did get up the duff accientally on perpose then she's an idiot, too. Still, it's her body, her pregnancy, her choice. No one has the right to pressure a woman into aborting any more than anyone has the right to try to prevent a woman aborting if she doesn't want to continue her pregnancy.