Worried about my sister - her DP trying to get her to have abortion

[iwouldgoouttonight]

I've just had a call from my sister, in tears, telling me how she's recently discovered she's about 2 months pregnant. Her and her DP are, on the face of it, in an ideal situation to start a family - been together a while, just got engaged, comfortably off, big house together, etc, etc. But her DP has been married before and already has children and absolutely doesn't want any more. He has various reasons, e.g. he's a bit older and doesn't want to go back to the sleepless nights, not being able to go out so much, less money, etc and also has issues with his ex wife trying to get more maintenance out of him.

My sister really really wants children of her own (rather than just helping to look after his at weekends) and this has been an issue with them for a while.

They've got an appointment at an abortion clinic this afternoon and I'm worried he'll talk her into agreeing to an abortion even though its not what she really wants. She's terrified of him leaving her if she keeps the baby, but I said if he's the kind of person who would leave her for that he's not worth being with anyway.

I've had an abortion and I know its not the kind of thing to enter into if you're not 100% sure - I knew I was too young, couldn't offer a baby a stable home, not in a good relationship with partner at the time, etc and I still had problems dealing with it afterwards and have been through several counselling sessions to help me with the decision I made. I just don't want her to have the abortion knowing that she really wanted the baby and then have to live with that afterwards.

I know there's nothing I can do now - they're probably at the appointment now - I've said most of what I've written here to her on the phone so she went off having decided to keep the baby and confront her DP. I just hope he doesn't talk her out of it by threatening to leave her. Not sure what anyone else can say - I just wanted to get it off my chest really.

Oh no iwgot, I haven't posted on here before but this is awful, your poor sister.
18 weeks is very late, she probably sounds mind made up as this is most likely her last chance as a lot of doctors won't agree to abortion beyond 18-20 weeks for non-medical reasons.

Can you get round to see her face to face? Just to check if it is all her decision or not.

This must be so distressing for you as well, she is lucky to have you around thinking of her as her DP certainly isn't.

I've told her loads of times to have the baby if she wants it and leave him - because if she stays with him, whatever happens to this baby, she is committing herself to never having children and living with a very selfish man.

She asked me what I would do and I told her that I found abortion to be a horrible experience (and that was a very early one) and I personally would never do it again (I know its different for different people, I just found it very hard to cope with) and that having my DS is the best thing that has ever happened to me. But in the last couple of weeks I've not heard much from her and if I've asked how she is she changes the subject and talks about something trivial. Its as though she's made her mind up (or had it made up for her) and doesn't want me to talk her out of it. Fair enough if its what she really wants, but the fact that she's spent the last three months phoning me in tears makes me believe she doesn't want to get rid of the baby.

Last thing she said was that she can't cope with moving house so there'll be a room for the baby - thats not like her at all, thats him speaking - their house is like a show home - everything is very expensive and not a thing out of place - also everything is his, she got rid of all her furniture, etc when they moved in together (which I thought was odd at the time - she got rid of all the things she'd collected over the years because they didn't match his idea of the perfect house). Its as though he wants to live as though he's in a catalogue and a baby would spoil that, and he's somehow managed to convince my sister that she wants the same thing. He told her they can't afford a baby and they'd have to live in a slum - FGS, they live in a £500k house and would have to move to a £300k one - its not as though they're on the breadline!

Sorry for the rant it just makes me so angry that she's going to go through with something she really doesn't want to do just for the sake of her DP being a materialistic bastard.

Tell her my DH was working in a low paid part time job,I was unemployed and we were living in shared rented accomodation when our DD was born. It wasn't easy financially, but all you need with a baby is love, it's corny, but true. It certainly sounds like your sister would be a hell of a lot better off than we were when we had a kid, her partner has done a sterling job of terrifying her about having this baby hasn't he? Sounds to me like he's more concerned about protecting his lifestyle than protecting his relationship. Honestly, even if she does go ahead with it, encourage her to stop wasting her time on this asshole anyway.

Don't allow her to skirt the issue either. If she switches the conversation to something trivial bring it back 'round to her feelings. The fact that she is so uncomfortable talking to you about it is a very bad sign.

www.choicetolivewith.com/ is a very comprehensive neutral workbook for women to really work through their feelings for and against aborting a pregnancy and I think this could help her crystallise her feelings on the matter, realise who is really making this decision.

Perhaps you could offer to go with her to her appointment? Maybe knowing someone who supports her unconditionally is with her will help her follow her instincts.

Honestly, if it were me I'd bawl out her partner in no uncertain terms, but I understand that may not be the most politic thing to do.

I know - the money situation is clearly just an excuse - they're both on very good salaries and there is no way they can't afford a baby, like you say, as long as they have love, food and warmth, they'll be fine. I've already offered her loads of DS's old things, pram, etc but they (or he) don't want second hand things!! Its just that it may mean having to sacrifice one of his sports cars (that sums him up really!). He works hard, granted, but he lives in a different world to most of us.

She just texted to say they've agreed that they'll get rid of this baby and try again once they've got a bigger house so there is room for the baby. I personally think that:

a. he's just saying that to get her to get rid of the baby and there's no way he'll suddenly want one in the future if he's been so absolutely and totally against this one. One of his excuses was that he's too old and he'll be even older next time!

and b. its a very sad and selfish state of affairs if you'd terminate an 18 week old baby just because it might mean living in a house thats not perfect for a few months. If that's what my sister really thinks then I don't know her very well at all.

Oh, since starting to write this she's texted and said chances are he'll hopefully not be able to let her go through with the abortion anyway - so she clearly doesn't want to have it.

I'm starting to wish she'd never asked my advice about it because now its started to really upset and anger me. Maybe I just need to step back and let her make her own mistakes and be there if she needs a shoulder to cry on. Its just that its such a big mistake to watch someone you love make.

Well, I'd certainly understand if you didn't want to get any further into it than you have already. There is, after a point, only so much you can do without it getting very complicated for you both.

Do your parents know what's going on btw? Do you think they'd approve? Or is that a whole other can of worms?

Please suggest to her that she check out the website I gave you though. It's incredibly thorough and she sounds very muddled right now.

Her partner is a piece of work, isn't he? Lying through his teeth just to get her to do what he wants . I've no doubt this is emotional abuse, I'm very sad for you sister. (((HUGS))) and good luck for you both.

This man is evil. And her relationship with him is dead whatever. If he makes her go through with this she will never forgive him, however much her head is telling her to do as he wants. I am shocked and sickened by this turn of events. I can only hope that when she goes for her appointment the doctor will be able to see that it isn't what she really wants and refuse to perform the procedure.

I can't believe that he was trying to pass the buck to his KIDS about whether or not to have the baby. What a farking loser. What happens when they grow up, and they realise that their lowlife father made them responsible for the decision to have their sibling being aborted?

What really gets me is that he is denying HER, completely out of hand, something that clearly means the world to him - children. I swear, if you pointed this man out to me on the street I would have no hesitation in doing something really, really painful to him.

Have you showed her any pics of what an 18wk fetus would look like? Do you really think she will go through with it? I don't think she will by the sound of it.

I just googled 18wk fetus and was shocked by the results, I had actually forgotten the size and how they really are a baby, if she saw those pics could she really go through with it and if he saw those pics could he really make her do it?

Years ago, I gave birth to my daughter at 20 weeks. She didn't survive as you would expect at that age. I don't think your sister will be mentally prepared for having a termination this late. Surely there are risks to her having one, too? And I can't imagine the NHS would fund one at such a late date so if they're going private it must be costing a fortune. Funny how he can find money for the termination but not the baby itself.

I don't want to look at the pictures of the 18 week foetus as I think it'd upset me - I've told her how developed it would be but she seems to be so scared of being left on her own with a child she's blocking out the realities. Thanks for the link to the website, I'll tell her about it but to be honest it seems as though everything I say, she listens to at the time and agrees with but then she goes home to her DP and he somehow convinces her that having a nice house is more important!

Me and my DP have just been talking about it and both got quite upset because ironically his brother and wife are going through IVF and are desperate for a child of their own - they have very little money but are scraping enough together to try one more time. They don't have a big house or enough rooms for a baby but they would give it love which is the most important thing. Its heartbreaking and I wish my sister had never told me now. Me and DP don't know how we can face her and her bastard of a DP. My parents still don't know so are arranging nights out for all of us which are going to be really awkward to say the least!

I feel really sorry for your sister, this is her once chance at motherhood, what if anything happened if she did go through with it and it left her not able to have kids in the future, i think she should have this baby, leave her so-called fiance and get on with raising this much wanted child. This man is a monster, and dare is say, she probably has a child (fiance) already to deal with, who hasn;t grown up and is throwing his toys out of his pram

This has made me feel so sad.

I feel sad for your sister and the fact she feels she has to do anything to please this pillock, including getting rid (horrible term) of a much wanted baby at a time when your hormones are at an all time high and you are emotionally vulnerable.

I'm sad for you and think you are wonderful, I would be heartbroken in your place. I can understand your frustration and anger, I feel angry and I don't even know the guy.

Most of all I feel terribly sad for the baby, this has to be one of the most futile reasons for abortion ever. I am pro choice but not just because some guy doesn't want to live without flash cars and designer shirts.

Ironically I think your sister is making this decision because of her pregnancy hormones, in a more objective state she may have sent him packing long ago. The really sad thing is she's going to so regret it afterwards and it's not going to do her mental health any good.

Can you not rush over and see her, take her away for a night? Maybe go as moral support for the abortion - with someone to back her up she may find the courage to not go through with it.

Sorry, I've nothing more constructive to add, I really just wanted to send you big hugs.

This is just an afterthought, but has she considered adoption? If nothing else it could buy her more time to decide.

I'd love to know where on earth she thinks she is getting this abortion from?

Still legal up to 24 weeks, Piffle. I don't imagine the doctors will be happy about it though. Unless they go private, money talks eh?

Ive read this whole thread this afternoon and im sooo sad. I was seeing a guy at the beginning of the year. We were not engaged, but had talked about moving in together. We didnt have an in depth chat on children, but he said if he was with someone that really wanted children he would. He knew I wanted children. I was using the persona as contraception, which i know is only 87 pct ok, but have used it for 7 years and been ok. He knew this. I fell pregnant in MArch, was a shock to both of us...but he didnt want the baby, and I did. He said I had trapped him? But he knew what i was using, and was welcome to back it up with condoms if he felt safer..but didnt. I did go for counselling at a clinic, but decided that I would keep the baby. I have seen him twice since, and im 25 weeks pregnant this week.
It angers me that although using contaception, which he was well aware of, he blames me..like your sisters dp blames her. I really think their relation ship is dead anyway. He is not going to change his mind if he was so aggresively against this one? Plus how can she want to be with him now?
I knew that if i kept the baby my X was probably not going to stick around, but I also felt that if i had terminated...I dont think he would have either. I think their relationship is on very shaky ground and I really feel for her.
You have been so good and done all you can for her..I just feel she is going to come to you to help pick up the pieces later....which will be difficult.
You have been a fab sister, as mine have been. The decisions she has made she will have to live with.
Big hugs xxxx

i think to have it after 16 wks there has t be a medical reason?
It was when I had TOP in 2000 anyway...

i know someone who's dd was born at 24 wks and survived and is now 3 and a handful

Beller - big hugs to you too. Hope you're pregnancy is going well and good for you for sticking up for what you wanted. I'm not sure my sister is that strong - she is so scared of being on her own, she tends to go from one long term relationship to another and never has a break to just be single and work out what she wants herself. I think she's terrified of being on her own and isn't thinking straight. Like everyone says I think the relationship is doomed whatever she does now. I've just sent her quite a blunt text saying that its her decision and I'll be there whatever she decides but I think she's being bullied into it and I think she's doing it for all the wrong reasons.

They're doing it privately of course - money solves everything in their world! They are treating it like a commodity, a bit like a car they've realised they don't want so they can just take it back to the shop.

I am absolutely aghast she would consider aborting a foetus at 18 weeks because the house is too small.

I hope she does have the appointment with the abortion clinic as (a) I don't think they'll agree to do one and (b) hopefully they will offer some counselling, which she sorely needs.

When my dad told me his new wife was having a baby, I did not throw a massive strop and wail for hours. This suggests to me it was done in a tactful way (I was 8). The ex-wife must also be furious with him for upsetting her kids with the way in which they were told about the pregnancy.

Twunt.

Piffle - I'd thought there had to be a medical reason after 16 weeks too, but apparently not any more.

She's been to the midwife and had a scan and blood tests and all is fine. Not sure how she is going to be able to look at the scan printout after this.

The Wiki doesn't say anything about 16 weeks. 1990 Human Fertilisation and Embryology Act lowered the time limit from 28 weeks to 24, but I don't see any other exclusions. She'll probably get it under the "Under 24 weeks to avoid injury to the physical or mental health of the woman" clause. It's vague enough for any situation really.

You know what? They're both twunts.

ANYONE who would consider 'getting rid' of an 18-week pregnancy because their £500,000 house is too small doesn't deserve to have kids, anyhow.

If this were my sister, I hate to have to say it, but that would be the end of our relationship.

Expat - I know where you're coming from. My and my DP have both been in tears this morning thinking about how it, esp with his brother's IVF situation. I can understand my sister is very upset and confused but I don't know how she can go through with it either. I think she's still very naively hoping he'll change his mind before tomorrow. I'm not anti-abortion but I think leaving it this late and playing with a life in this way is out of order and really upsetting.

I have asked my sister if she'd consider having the child and adopting it so maybe my DP's brother and his wife could bring it up, but she said she wouldn't be able to go through pregnancy and then give the child up. Although she's already gone halfway through pregnancy and is going to give the child up anyway so I don't get it.