Worried about my sister - her DP trying to get her to have abortion

[iwouldgoouttonight]

I've just had a call from my sister, in tears, telling me how she's recently discovered she's about 2 months pregnant. Her and her DP are, on the face of it, in an ideal situation to start a family - been together a while, just got engaged, comfortably off, big house together, etc, etc. But her DP has been married before and already has children and absolutely doesn't want any more. He has various reasons, e.g. he's a bit older and doesn't want to go back to the sleepless nights, not being able to go out so much, less money, etc and also has issues with his ex wife trying to get more maintenance out of him.

My sister really really wants children of her own (rather than just helping to look after his at weekends) and this has been an issue with them for a while.

They've got an appointment at an abortion clinic this afternoon and I'm worried he'll talk her into agreeing to an abortion even though its not what she really wants. She's terrified of him leaving her if she keeps the baby, but I said if he's the kind of person who would leave her for that he's not worth being with anyway.

I've had an abortion and I know its not the kind of thing to enter into if you're not 100% sure - I knew I was too young, couldn't offer a baby a stable home, not in a good relationship with partner at the time, etc and I still had problems dealing with it afterwards and have been through several counselling sessions to help me with the decision I made. I just don't want her to have the abortion knowing that she really wanted the baby and then have to live with that afterwards.

I know there's nothing I can do now - they're probably at the appointment now - I've said most of what I've written here to her on the phone so she went off having decided to keep the baby and confront her DP. I just hope he doesn't talk her out of it by threatening to leave her. Not sure what anyone else can say - I just wanted to get it off my chest really.

Well exactly NKF - she needs to accept baby+fiance isn't going to happen I'd choose my children over my DH any day and that doesn't mean I don't love my DH - on the contrary. But if, in the very unlikely circs of him making me choose him or them, he'd be out the door. And he knows that.

macdoodle - I quite agree with you. It does seem unfair. A man can be made a father with no say in the matter - and yes he chose to have sex but so did she, and she has the ultimate choice over whether to continue with the pregnancy. And if he then ignores the baby or doesn't give enough time and money, or doesn't act as the kind of father the mother expects, he is a dead-beat dad. It makes you wonder why they don't keep it in their trousers more often...

But, let's look at the bigger pisture of parenthood. Men hardly have the short end of the stick. They can walk out and just give you 15% of their gross pay. And if that isn't enough to cover the bills, then too bad. It is the mum who has to deal with it. The man can walk out the door, maintain his life, and just drop in the weekends for abit of fun and games. But, who is going to be calling in to work when the kid wakes with a fever puking on Tuesday morning?

And, the man isn't the one who has to go have the abortion.

Now, if they had sat down and agreed before having sex that if they ever got pregnant, than the course of action would be termination. Then I'd say he had a point. But, as far as a I know, they never had this conversation and they are both to blame for that.

I just hope the OP's sister has gone somewhere she can feel safe and secure and take of herslef, and not somewhere with an agry man who wants to give his own child FAS.

"Men hardly have the short end of the stick. They can walk out and just give you 15% of their gross pay"

sorry but women have exactly the same choice. i hate this bullshit of the widely accepted idea that men can just happily walk out on a child with no attachment but somehow the woman is more of a parent by virtue of her sex.
i would never walk out on my child and would let no one seperate me from them.

just on another note.
if a woman falls pregnant and breaks up with the man, how much support would you expect the man to provide during the pregnancy.i don't mean purely financially, i mean actual involvment.would it be too awkward for the woman to spend all this time with an ex?
and if he was not around during the pregnancy how would you feel when the baby was born and he wanted to see it all the time and have joint custody?
not a wind up,genuinely interested in the views.

Obviously, theman, there are fathers like you who are quite different. But, sadly, I think there are also plenty who run off and think they have no obligation to the little people whom they have created. Seems to be plenty of stories here on mumsnet alone.

But, of course, there are lovely guys like you too. I dare say if you got your fiance pregnant you wouldn't leave her in the lurch because of it.

oh i know that in reality it is the father who is much more likely to leave. i just hate the fact that it is socially acceptable to presume that a man can just walk and it means as little to him as leaving a restaurant or pub.
the pregnancy question i only asked because the op's sister seems to be in a position where they might split up during pregnancy and i was just wondering whatn women in that position would expect from the man.

I have a friend who split up with her husband during her 3rd pregnancy.... After 2 years and 2 miscarriages, he suddenly realised he didn't like being married to her.

Her number one overwhelming concern was to make sure the baby had a relationship with his own father. She needed some financial support for baby, but she conceded a lot in the divorce settlement, just trying to appease her child's dad.

(Meanwhile, the future ex-H spent most of his time hassling her for his half of the value of their house, ).

iwgot - I really feel for your sister (and also for you - you must be so worried about her). Getting her on mumsnet is not a bad idea. I also agree with those who recommend getting her out of a house where she doesn't feel safe referring to her pregnancy.

her fiance sounds like a right manipulative spoilt dick tbh. trying to get her to drink? what a child.

Anyone who walks that like, male or female, think long and hard, folks. Are they even worth having?

Spoke to my sister again this morning - her partner has made his final decision, if she has the baby he's leaving her because he doesn't want to risk the relationship with his current kids (apparently he thinks they might not want to see him if he has another child), if she terminates the pregnancy he wants to stay together. He then put the ball back in her court and wants to know if she gets rid of the baby will she leave him anyway. I think she definitely should because they both want different things.

So its a choice of aborting a wanted child or bring a child up on her own. He hasn't said whether he wants any involvement with it if she has it, but she doesn't really want him to - she'd rather make a clean break.

Anyway she's coming to my house this afternoon tfor a shoulder to cry on.

Your poor sister.

It sort of sound like she knows what she wants though. The baby and him out of her life.

Oh crap

Your sister is very lucky to have you IWGT. I have no practical advice, but I thought you should know that.

But it did look to me from your very first post that it was baby or fiance. And even if he did agree how genuine would that be.

You sound like a wonderful supportive sister to me.

((((((((hugs)))))))))))) for your sister and for you. she's lucky to have you.

I really am disgusted by this guy's behaviour. He's leaving his pregnant fiance if she doesn't have an abortion to please him and he's using his children to justify this as somehow being honourable behaviour? Barf.

I believe I was pretty displeased when my parents decided I wasn't enough for them and insisted on going ahead and having my sister. If only they'd realised how selfish they were being and that my "needs" should have come first.

He sounds like an absolutely lousy father/man/human. She and the baby will be just fine without him and his stupid designer suits.

think he might be in for a shock - what if his kids want to know the child? all he is doing is showing them that he is capable of abandoning his child, thats hardly going to make them feel more secure.

i left xp when ds2 was born. i loved being a single mum, i actually found it easier being single than part of a couple and i am including being part of a couple with dh who is actually useful and not a selfish toad like some. she will manage on her own, its surprising what these little people make you capable of

Thanks gringottsgoblin - I've been really worried about how she'll cope on her own - I found the first few months of DS's life so difficult and I have DP to help share the work - although I do know what you mean, when he is away with work I sometimes find it easier because you get into your own routine.

Skidoodle - I agree, I'm sure many children take a while to adjust to a new sibling, but they do cope with it don't they? Using his kids as an excuse is unfair - and I imagine he'll give them a skewed version of the story to make them think the baby is a bad idea.

Right - going to get some cakes and chocolate in ready for her arrival!

Thanks everyone for all your comments. Its really helped to hear other perspectives on it.

What an incomprehensible selfish jerk. Your poor sister.

How old are his other kids?

Give your sister lots oh MN hugs for us. And maybe show her this thread so she can see lots of people's views.

I would do the same thing if I were her.

Good-bye selfish twat.

Hello gorgeous baby.

Hope she made a decision that is best for her and her body.

This guy sounds like a twunt either way.

If he really felt that strongly about not having children, he should have had the snip before having three 'accidents'.

What an immature, inconsiderate, selfish twat.

I don't think this man sounds very nice. For one thing, he is shifting resposibility onto his children, ie 'you have to get rid of it because my kids wouldn't like it'. Yuck.

I think they should split now, your sister should keep her baby that she wants so much, and let him see how he likes life without her. If he's fine about it, well, the relationship probably wouldn't have endured anyway, baby or no baby. On the other hand I suppose there's a remote chance he might want to give family life a go, and if he's the one who comes back and asks to be a family, then he'll be in no position ten months or ten years down the line to throw the issue in her face.

Having said that his anger and spite kind of hints at a guy who simply doesn't care enough; he should at least have some empathy about your sister's desire to have kids, and address it with consideration. Also the fact that she missed a pill; these things happen, they need to be dealt with, not turned over and over with the intention of apportioning blame.

BTW I speak as someone who was 'pressured' into an abortion a few years back - maybe this does cloud my judgement though I think I am speaking objectively. It was a rough ride and what happened next? I got pg again a few months later, had the baby, and me and the man split up. Incidentally he adores his ds and is a hands-on dad (not been easy though).

Just a bit of food for thought; I really feel for your sister, there is nothing more lonely than a lonely pregnancy xx

Bit of an update. My sister's DP said that he would stay with her if she had the baby (but made it clear he wouldn't like it!) as long as his kids were ok with it. He told the kids when my sister wasn't there and apparently they cried for hours and hated the idea (god knows how he told them!) They left early to go back to their mum's because they said they didn't want to stay there if she was going to have the baby. So her DP has now decided he can't risk losing his kids so is back to not wanting her to have the baby!

She is so mixed up and distressed - she missed her midwife appointment and scan because she decided it wasn't worth having a baby that nobody wants, she's worried it'll have a horrible life if its dad and step-sisters hate it. But she hasn't made an appointment for an abortion yet either.

Last I heard was last week, we had a conversation by text and I told her not to be bullied and not to let him use the kids against her. I was quite honest and a bit harsh because its making me quite cross that he's being so nasty about it all and she hasn't replied since. She has since gone on holiday with her DP and his kids (was already booked ages ago) so no idea how she's coping with that. I've sent her another text to see how things are but no answer.

We'd supposed to all be meeting up at the weekend, with my parents too for my DS's first birthday (our parents don't know anything about the pregnancy) so god knows what thats going to be like! I just can't stop worrying about the whole situation - no idea what the situation is now with her, her DP and his kids, I'm assuming they might have come to some arrangement if she's gone on holiday with them, but she's leaving it late for an abortion if she doesn't have the baby, and late for a scan if she does keep it, so hope she'll be ok. I don't want to keep interfering if she doesn't want me to, but at the same time I worry he'll pressure/emotionally blackmail her into making a decision she doesn't want to.

I was just wondering earlier what had happened with your sister.

wow, this guy is such an unspeakable cock. I can't believe he would actually involve his children in such a horrible and manipulative way. I wouldn't want this man anywhere near any children of mine.

And what an absolute git - giving her hope so that she doesn't leave, presumably just so he can have another go and convincing her to abort.

I'm not surprised your worried about her. I also understand why you're worried about interfering too much. But she's very vulnerable right now and with a very manipulative and selfish man, so this might be one of those times when you just have to make whatever difference you can.

He sounds a very nasty "man".

Presumably he involved his children so he can pass the buck onto them by claiming that because they don't want a new baby, he doesn't want her to go ahead with the pregnancy. That way, he's probably kidding himself that his conscience is clear, irrespectively of how cruel he's behaving towards his fiancee.

I wonder how the idea was presented to them ? ...... I should have thought with tact, and sensitivity, most children would welcome the idea of a baby brother or sister. As they're living apart from their dad, there might be issues of jealousy, and reassurance needed admittedly, but "crying for hours" sounds like it was sold to them in a completely negative way.

I agree with Skidoodle ...... there are some situations, where, not only for someone else's sake, but also for your own peace of mind, you need to put aside notions of "interfering" and try to help however you can, so that whatever happens, at least you know you've tried.

What a bastard.

Another update - the situation has been going on and on - one minute my sister's DP saying ok he'll give it a go, if she wants to keep the baby he'll stick with her - the next minute saying a child will ruin his life, etc.

My sister was in a such a mess she ended up making another appointment for an abortion AND and appointment to see the midwife on the same day (today) thinking that will make her make a decision. She desperately wants a baby but is so scared about bringing a child into the world who's father hates it. She's 16 weeks now.

She phoned me this morning saying she's realised she could never go through with the abortion and has cancelled the appointment and will go and see the midwife this morning. She told her DP she can't go through with an abortion and the thought of it makes her feel physically sick, and he said well thats that then, we're having a baby, my life is over, and then stormed out and hasn't spoken to her since!

I had been trying to see both sides of the situation but now I just think he's a selfish tw*t. He tried to absolve his guilt by saying his kids wouldn't like it, but now they're actually fine with it and are asking my sister excited questions about it. He also reads my sisters text messages so read the ones from me saying not to let herself be bullied/emotionally blackmailed into doing something she might regret - so now he thinks I don't like him (which I don't to be honest!).

She is dreading going home again tonight in case he's back and accusing her of ruining his life again. I really feel for his poor kids if he thinks that children ruin your life - he must think so little of them.

I hope once she tells people about the pregnancy and everyone is happy for her/them, then it will make him realise it had supposed to be a happy occasion and he might come round a bit. At the minute, if she feels faint or sick or anything to do with the pregnancy, he just ignores her - he won't acknowledge the pregnancy at all!

Anyway, sorry for going on - I'm just worried about her - I think she should leave him but she loves him and lives in the hope that he'll change his mind and actually want the child.

oh dear iwgot, overall I guess that's sort-of good news, as at least she didn't go through with an abortion she didn't want, which, to my mind at least, is something she might never recover from, especially if she never went on to have any other children.

This man's behaviour is slightly worrying. He reads her text messages? That's not normal. I certainly don't read my DH's texts and I would not like it if he was to read mine or feel he had any entitlement to. Put with his manipulative nature and spoilt child tantrum over not getting his way I can see why you think she should leave him.

At least your sister has you. She's lucky in that. It's a pity he knows you don't like him. Try to make sure he doesn't alienate her from you now that he knows.

best of luck to you and your sis.

OMG! I'd not heard from my sister for a few days - last I heard she was keeping the baby whatever happened and was going to tell our parents. I just texted her to see how she was and if her DP had started to be any nicer about things and she texted back to say she's going to get rid of it tomorrow!! She'll be nearly 18 weeks! I've no idea what her DP must have said to her to make her want to get rid of a baby she really wanted to have! She said he'd been telling her how they'd have to move house and it will be in a worse area and all the hassle involved in moving, but I can't believe she'd really rather get rid of a baby than have to move house!! I have no idea what to say to her - it sounds as though her minds made up.

God god, what a selfish twunt! Your poor, poor sister

If he didn't want another kid he needed to be sterilised. Until that point he has to take responsibility for what happens Why do men think that just because abortion exists it is there to be used for their mistakes and women are the selfish ones for not having them? 18 weeks is a hell of a long way into a pregnancy to abort, she'll probably have to deliver it. Emotionally I cannot think of anything worse, especially if she half wants to keep the poor little blighter and is being emotionally blackmailed into terminating the pregnancy.

He must have said some bloody awful things to his kids to make them upset about the usually delightful discovery that they are about to have another sibling. I HATED my violent stepfather, but I was ecstatic when my mum got pregnant, how can you not be?

At this point my sisterly advice to her would be; he's not worth the hassle, have the baby.
Perhaps you could reassure her that you will help her as much as possible? That her friends will rally round if she reaches out to them?

Whilst it wont be a picnic raising the baby on her own it sounds very much like being co-erced into terminating the pregnancy would ruin her relationship anyway, so she might as well do what she feels like at this point, no?

Grrr.