Dealing with adult temper tantrums

[PointdeVue]

I'm writing after a big argument with my wife, and I realise every side has two stories, and I'm going to try to be as objective as possible.

My wife and I have disagreements about tidiness, which I guess is common enough, but whereas I think most people can meet in the middle, every so often, my wife will end up having a temper tantrum that is uncontrollable.

We went away this weekend to visit family, and we had a great family. I was the last person to leave the house on Thursday when we left. My wife is quite insistent about a number of jobs that I have to do before I leave the house. I'd put the blinds down, emptied the bin, unplugged the toaster, etc. When we got back on Monday evening, she immediately saw that the dishwasher had been left with the clean dishes in after the cycle had finished, there were some plates on the drying rack (dry), and the surface, by her standards, wasn't clean enough.

She starts screaming at the top of her voice at me, and I can't control her. She is saying how she hates me. I tried to keep calm, and I pointed out that we shouldn't shout. She continues screaming, and she ends up pouring a jug of water over me.

We sit in different rooms for a while, and when I go to bed, she screams for me to get out of bed. When I go to sleep in the guest bed, she screams to get out of the guest bed.

Eventually, next day she comes home, and starts screaming again. We have a guest, and when they go, she starts screaming again. I'm just trying to get some peace here and go and watch TV. When I go to bed, she ends up waking me at 2 in the morning to show me how to clean the kitchen properly (at one point, she even said she was thinking of killing herself over the cleanliness). Today, I am now exhausted.

I've tried to explain to her that her screaming and over-reaction is so out of normality, that I don't know how to react. She however thinks my tidiness in the kitchen is the real problem, whereas it seems clear to me that her reaction is the major problem. It would have taken less than five minutes to clean up the mess when we came home on Monday.

She says I don't take her seriously on the cleanliness, and to be honest, it's true. I'm not a neat freak, but I'm also fairly average in that regard. She sees my "messiness" as a big "fuck you" to her.

Most of the time, she is lovely, and I would say we have similar instances a few times a year (maybe around four times) where she flies off the handle. She doesn't seem to recognise the problem.

I know that many would say if it were the other way around, I should just leave, but I don't want to, and I love her, and I think we should be able to find a way around it.

I'd be grateful for any help, and also anything I might be missing. I want to see things from her point of view. Thanks

OP thanks for answering my questions

does anyone in DW family have MH Issues

How did you react to her saying she was thinking of killing herself over the cleanliness

Has she said anything like this before

Does she struggle with social interactions - all these episodes have occurred after or before - are they the same set of people in each one

Is there any other stress indicators going on other than job and trying for a baby

Goodness knows what she is doing to your self confidence op, but you do realise you are bad for her mental health just as much as she is bad for yours?

And that it's not your fault?

What will it take for you to detach from her emotionally? You do realise you can never have a family or have a peaceful, stable life with her?

You obviously love her but where is the line?

What line can she cross that means there is no going back ever?

She already has physically assaulted you with the jug of water.

Your self preservation instinct is no longer working which means you are vulnerable to escalating physical and emotional abuse.

You need to detach to help her. Draw the line. Because the way you are carrying on isn't giving you any respect.

You cannot help her. But you can help yourself.

gamerchick I have reported your post to MN as i feel this I shall another attack to me and implying that my opinion is invalid .

And yes it does matter because in giving his answer the OP has revealed more information that puts the situation into a different context

Disagreeing and asking a question is not an attack, but report away if it makes you feel better.

OP I hope you have a more peaceful weekend.

I have reported your post to MN as i feel this I shall another attack to me and implying that my opinion is invalid

Green beret - a personal attack is telling someone to fuck off or attacking THEM as Stupid or ugly.

It’s not the same as disgreeing with someone . And MNers are perfectly free to suggest that other people’s opinions are invalid. It’s called discussion.

You’re going to have a tough time here if you can’t tell the difference .

OP has already answered the questions I asked about his wife's family up-thread.

OP I ask about the mention of killing herself as this indicates to me that she is aware she has a problem - whether it’s the OTT cleanliness or her reactions that she is aware of I’m not sure - but my view is she knows.

There is still a lot of shame around “suicide” and MH issues. some people view it as a weakness but it is a desperate cry for help when all other communication is failing - whatever your wife is struggling with she cannot express it - maybe she doesn’t know what the root of the problem is - all she knows is she loses it big time in an unacceptable way which causes her shame puts strain on the marriage and she may not know why she is behaving like this or how to deal with it.

There is some self awareness going on with her but if she feels shame or guilt and those are difficult emotions to acknowledge that may be why she is refusing to talk currently

ravenmum you asked about whether the ops mum is similar which I can see the Op answered

I’ve asked whether there are any MH issues in DW family - this could be DF siblings extended family -

If I’ve missed the answer to this can you highlight please

A personal attack can be far less obvious than fuck off - a discussion is not dismissing another’s opinion as INVALID - all opinions are valid as I’m sure you will know if you have done post abuse learning - whilst you may not agree with another’s opinion it does not make it any less valid than your own.

Yes I see I get a tough time - not because I Don’t know the difference but because I do

Greenberet, as far as I know, I don't know of any MH issues in my wife's extended family. Not that I think it's all that relevant. I'm very much taking on the idea and accepting that this behaviour is unacceptable, but I do want to help my wife see it as a problem and help her change if it is possible. We did make vows to each other.

How often does this happen? Couple of times in your marriage, couple of times per month?

I am not sure how you are going to get it across to her that it is unacceptable.

My mother is now in her 80s and still does stuff like this. They really don’t change.

My DF made excuses all his life for her, it is a really miserable existence. For him and for us children.

You might decide to put up with abuse, your choice, but please, do not subject children to it. please.

You might decide to put up with abuse, your choice, but please, do not subject children to it. please

Agreed. It's a small mercy really. She doesn't sound like she's quite ready for babies and it would be really unfair to bring on into that environment.

You can't help someone that doesn't want to be helped or admit there is a problem with her.
I understand that you have made vows and love her, but can you continue to live like this?

Sounds like a nightmare and I can understand why you are so conflicted.
Whatever problems your wife has, it is manifesting itself into abuse onto you. I would suggest some time apart to see if that makes her realise the gravity of what is going on. If it prompts her into looking at her mental health.
If she does that and makes progress, and after a break you both decide you want to give things a go then maybe it would be worth it.

But right now you need some space and time to see how you feel about what has been happening. You cant think straight because you are in the middle of it, you love her, and dont want to leave her when she clearly has problems. But your priority has to be your own safety and wellbeing.

And she made vows to you, too, OP.
To love and to cherish.
She's doing the exact opposite.
You can't love her better. She's abusing you, and the stakes / risks are ramping up.
One day I hope you will be someone's Dad. (but not with this disturbed woman).....please, look after your future child's Dad, and save yourself by getting away.

She keeps getting away with this because her dirty little secret has been safe with you for a long time.
I think you need to speak to your doctor and seek some advice on a possible way forward for her/for you both.
From what you say about her, speaking to her over the weekend about it will probably just enrage her, and unfortunately you have forewarned her that this is your intention.
As others have said, she is a very abusive women.
Don't have children with her - it will be this hell and more.
I really hope you are ok and you can get her the help she needs.
Fwiw, you sound like a very good DH, but she's just not recognising it at all.

Op your dw saying that she is thinking of killing herself is pretty serious - I would personally be more concerned about this as well as her behaviour

Does she have anyone that she confides in close personal friend - how close are you to her family - could you talk to them about this

You haven’t said whether she has said this before

At the moment I think you should hold back from talking to her given her recent behaviour let things try and return to when you feel all things are ok

You haven't said what your line is.
That doesn't bode well.
If you are insistent that your vows come before your mental health then I suggest you retrain as a mental health nurse so that your time can be spent deflecting and calming and you will be able to learn to identify what triggers her and hopefully avoid them.

You can be her carer and nurse and a husband second to that.

Good luck.
.Perhaps you have a sibling who might have a child/ children one day. You'd make a great uncle but I wouldn't suggest you have a child in the house with that type of unpredictable and deranged behaviour.

Unfortunately I think your softly softly approach to try to convey to your wife she needs to see a gp will be met with patronising disbelief and no doubt another jug of water over your head ( or worse).

Ignore our warnings at your peril.

Op pp is right you can't love someone into not abusing you.

She sounds like an ex of mine. He would go into a frenzy of cleaning and redecorating. If I wanted to cook something he wouldinsist I wash up every utensil as I go even if I was going to be using it again in a minute or so. If I mixed the cutlery up in the draining thingy he would get annoyed and put all the knives together all the forks together etc. despite I was going to dry and put them away in 20 minutes.
He constantly accused me of being messy, low class and having low standards. Like a PP mentioned he was crap at his job and often didn't go to work but having the house pristine was a way for him to offset this maybe?

Curtains had to be hanging perfectly, towels the same. It was like the movie 'Sleeping with the enemy'. He became enraged one weekend over what he considered an infraction of his rules that I had done without realising and he took me by the throat. I left the following day while he was out and I never went back. He wrote me a couple of letters explaining that the break up was all my fault. It was. I made the decision that I wanted to not live by his rules 24/7. I wanted some autonomy. I'm not even that messy a person. I consider at best he had a personality disorder.

How does she cope with visitors or worse... visitors with sticky fingered toddlers/children? Does she manage to rein in her screaming at them?

What about some "hard love" then ?
Tell her you need some couples counselling. that if she refuses then your out of it. You won't live this way indefinitely, if you/she won't get help then you will go your own way.
If she is threatening suicide, isn't this another example of how she needs help ?

OP don't just back off because someone threatens to kill themself. That allows them to manipulate you in the worst way possible and is quite frankly dispicable evidence of emotional abuse. If she threatens to kill herself tell her that you are concerned about her and will be calling for professional advice as you cannot let that pass without seeking help. Her response will tell you if it is genuine or another form of control.

Backing off is not good advice as it validates abusive behaviour.

Don't get bogged down in justifying why someone may have acted the way they have, you are not her therapist. You are her partner and deserve love and respect. There is no excuse for abuse. If she can control it in other aspects of her life then she knows exactly what she is doing. I would suggest you watch the BBC documentary about the man being abused by his girlfriend. She almost killed him but was seemingly perfectly normal to the outside world.

OP think about the advice you would give a friend if they told you that they had a spouse who treated them this way. she sounds awful, controlling and abusive. You don't treat someone this way if you love them. Surely she'd be happier by herself then everything will be done to her high standards. Please please please don't have children with her. They will have miserable little lives. You need to leave her.

Is your wife's temper linked with PMT? If so and she recognises it there may be scope for her altering her behaviour at those times.
I agree with other posters about not having children, she would make their lives a misery, there is no way you can be so controlling with children and bring them up to be happy and well balanced.
I think you need to tell her in no uncertain terms that she cannot dictate the organisation of the kitchen etc, it is your home too and you have a say. You also need to challenge why things like leaving a plate out matters to her so much, in the grand scheme of things it is laughable, has she not got something better to worry about? If counselling doesn't help I fear she is doomed to live alone in her pristine mansion........