Dealing with adult temper tantrums

[PointdeVue]

I'm writing after a big argument with my wife, and I realise every side has two stories, and I'm going to try to be as objective as possible.

My wife and I have disagreements about tidiness, which I guess is common enough, but whereas I think most people can meet in the middle, every so often, my wife will end up having a temper tantrum that is uncontrollable.

We went away this weekend to visit family, and we had a great family. I was the last person to leave the house on Thursday when we left. My wife is quite insistent about a number of jobs that I have to do before I leave the house. I'd put the blinds down, emptied the bin, unplugged the toaster, etc. When we got back on Monday evening, she immediately saw that the dishwasher had been left with the clean dishes in after the cycle had finished, there were some plates on the drying rack (dry), and the surface, by her standards, wasn't clean enough.

She starts screaming at the top of her voice at me, and I can't control her. She is saying how she hates me. I tried to keep calm, and I pointed out that we shouldn't shout. She continues screaming, and she ends up pouring a jug of water over me.

We sit in different rooms for a while, and when I go to bed, she screams for me to get out of bed. When I go to sleep in the guest bed, she screams to get out of the guest bed.

Eventually, next day she comes home, and starts screaming again. We have a guest, and when they go, she starts screaming again. I'm just trying to get some peace here and go and watch TV. When I go to bed, she ends up waking me at 2 in the morning to show me how to clean the kitchen properly (at one point, she even said she was thinking of killing herself over the cleanliness). Today, I am now exhausted.

I've tried to explain to her that her screaming and over-reaction is so out of normality, that I don't know how to react. She however thinks my tidiness in the kitchen is the real problem, whereas it seems clear to me that her reaction is the major problem. It would have taken less than five minutes to clean up the mess when we came home on Monday.

She says I don't take her seriously on the cleanliness, and to be honest, it's true. I'm not a neat freak, but I'm also fairly average in that regard. She sees my "messiness" as a big "fuck you" to her.

Most of the time, she is lovely, and I would say we have similar instances a few times a year (maybe around four times) where she flies off the handle. She doesn't seem to recognise the problem.

I know that many would say if it were the other way around, I should just leave, but I don't want to, and I love her, and I think we should be able to find a way around it.

I'd be grateful for any help, and also anything I might be missing. I want to see things from her point of view. Thanks

DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN WITH THIS WOMAN

You cannot save a marriage to an abusive spouse.

You do not have counselling with an abusive spouse.

Clean dishes in the dishwasher and on the draining board is not mess!!!

You need to let go of this marriage- it will only go worse!

@Wallywobbles - why have you chosen to mention me again - yet have offered no advice to the op

I find this comment unnecessary

I am reporting all comments mentioning me to MN.

I have asked MN if they can identify the other threads that I have been reported on where I feel a similar pattern occurred and I end up feeling like a target for having a differing opinion.

It is even more concerning that you are aware that I have MH issues - I have been posting under MH the last couple of days yet rather than leave me alone it appears that I am being antagonised.

This is a thread about abuse yet you cannot identify your own abusive behaviour

The next time this happens you need to be ready to say 'my patience with you and tolerance for your abuse has run out. You will stop screaming now or I will put you out of this house immediately.'

Fuck her. She is abusive. You need to tell her to seek help or leave if she is so unhappy. And tell her you won't be having children with a woman who screams and has control issues. Stand up to her.

You need to have the resolve to see it through. You say she is lovely but you sound like you walk on eggshells. That isn't lovely.

So back to the Op, my brothers ex was abusive to him, and they do have kids, about 6 years ago my mum had a phone call from one of the girls, she was crying and telling my mum that Daddy needed an ambulance because mummy was hitting him with a chair leg she'd broken, so my mum called the police, she got taken away, just 1 example of the domestic abuse he suffered, all of it in front of the kids.

Do NOT have kids with this woman, because she will involve the kids.

OP I could possibly have written your thread, only slightly less extreme (Just the screaming, shouting, punching walls, no throwing water or getting me up at 2am!) and with a toddler added into the mix. And almost always about tidiness, but really overly obsessive.

There are two explanations:

1. DW is abusing you because she has health problems (mental or hormonal). This DOES NOT excuse it, but it may mean that with psychiatric or medical help change is possible. But getting that help is non negotiable. I don't buy this "she can control it at work" line, lots of people with e.g. OCD, ASD bottle it up to get through the day then explode at home, but she does need help.

2. She is just abusive. In which case do you really think you are not worth more than this? Don't bring children into this.

I'm not so great at taking my own advice but I hope you do.

This could've been written by my Best Friend. His wife has the most ridiculous temper tantrums especially if she can't get her own way. Only difference is she doesn't work, they don't go away anywhere, oh and she doesn't clean. He has to do it all after slogging his arse off working 12-15 hour days. I wish he would see sense and leave her. She tried to strangle him a few weeks ago for no apparent reason other than he said the wrong thing to. He had to physically push her off him. Then she went into the kitchen and threatened to stab him with a knife. She's trashed the kitchen worktops by slashing them. She's even threatened to stab me to death. When the jumping up and down shouting and screaming doesn't work she'll threaten to slash her wrists to the point now he constantly walks on eggshells or just goes along with everything she says wants or does just to keep the peace. He knows he can do so much better. He deserves so much better as well but he won't leave because she has no family around to look after her. She hardly has any friends either. From an outsiders perspective it's horrible seeing someone you care about suffering in an abusive relationship. I've also been in an abusive marriage myself. Honestly if I was you I'd get out whilst you still can!! You'll walk away with 2 of the most important things, your life and your dignity still intact

Have you posted about this woman before OP? The throwing water at 2am rings a bell. I also remember she (if I'm thinking of the same one) won't touch anything without using tissues and leaves them around for her DH to clear up.

She sounds abusive and manipulative and that she knows exactly what she is doing. She sounds as if she thinks she is superior to you. Duck getting her help, I'd run a mile before your trapped with kids. It'll get worse after kids.

Thanks for all the comments. We didn't speak much about it again last night, but today this morning, I said I wanted to talk about it at the weekend. My wife insisted that she didn't, and that she may just have to get used to the idea that I won't support her. That's how she sees it, even though, by my reckoning, I'll go off to the supermarket today to make sure we have food in the house, cooking dinner, etc. She sees a misplaced cup or the wrong food ingredient as a real slight towards her, and that's part of her problem.

Well if she won't even discuss it then you have to take action to protect yourself.
Could you get away for the weekend?
Visit friends or family.
Just get some headspace.
Get out of this toxic environment for a little while and you'll see just how relieved you feel to be out of it.
No walking on eggshells.
No worrying about what mood she will be in.
No worrying about being screamed at.
No worrying about no sleep (that's torture by the way)
Get away - get a break.

That sounds more like a meltdown than temper tantrum?

She was out of control and totally felt that the clean dishes in the dishwasher were terrible and took it personally on a level that indicates she has a difficulty.

Whether she has a MH difficulty or is just abusive - what you experienced and have experienced before is abuse.

It's common knowledge everyone has differing standards and people have to find a common ground.

But where you are being robbed of the ability to enjoy life because you are always wondering what you'll do next to upset her - that's unhealthy.

Usual couples typically share things like cooking and washing up after. 1 does each. Or if 1 does both one night the other does both a other night. You are both contributing to the household and as you do the bills and shopping then that would be counteracted by her commute to work.

And her attitude of "she has to accept you'll never be good enough to meet her standards" is again controlling. She's making it all about you not being enough. You being responsible for her outbursts. You not being good enough at housework.

I don't think anyone who's honest can deny we've all had emotional outbursts at times when it gets too much. But this goes way beyond that.

The irony here I’m on here because my MH is not good - trying to distract myself from my own issues
This is your plan, according to you, greenberet. I was saying that this plan was backfiring as writing on this thread was making you feel worse about your own issues.

If she won’t talk about it, maybe print this thread off and show her. Maybe then she will get a sense of how unreasonable she is being. She says you won’t support her, but why is it her way or nothing? I’m a naturally messy person & my DH is a naturally tidy person. Stuff laying around the house really doesn’t bother me but it does my DH. But he calmly points out that mess makes him anxious & stressed so I do try to be more tidy. He will tidy up himself though too & never rants at me about it! I couldn’t bear to live in an environment where I would fear a massive overreaction over something so trivial! Especially when it seems like you do more than your fair share of the chores.

Not sure she'd react well to her husband printing out and handing her a discussion about her that he has begun on a public forum in which people describe her as "unhinged".

OP, She doesn't want to change. She is making out that the problem is not her actions (which nobody would describe as proportionate) but that the fault lies entirely with you. This is a massive red flag!
Things will not get better only worse. Are you happy living like this? You talk about having children. Do you think that this a good environment for them to grow?
If a friend or family member talked to you about a partner throwing water on them, refusing to let them sleep, screaming for hours/days at them, what would your reaction be? Would you be concerned, think it wasn't right or healthy?
You love her and probably don't want to leave but you need to look after your wellbeing both physical and mental first.

ravenmum - yes in hindsight that’s probably not a good idea! I do think the OP needs to let his DW know that her behaviour is far from acceptable or rational though. What I meant was maybe he needs to ask her what her family & friends (not strangers on the internet) would think about the way she treated him and whether they would think that was an acceptable reaction to his so called ‘crimes’. To get an outsiders perspective might make her rethink her actions. If she still doesn’t see the problem and accept she is in the wrong then yes that’s a massive red flag and I can’t see how the OP can continue living in that environment.

Fgs, unless an argument is genuinely lighthearted, printing a thread out and sharing it is almost never a good idea.

I lived with someone for 3 years OP who had similar weird issues. Very nice, attractive sociable guy on the surface, met him after my marriage broke up. Initially I just thought he was pretty tidy for a guy. After 6 months he started with the 'I don't like you cooking proper homemade meals, it makes too much mess', then it went onto 'I think we should use paper plates and plastic cutlery as I don't like seeing unwashed pots around--even if its for an hour', the final straw after about 2 years was 'I think we should get those ready made xmas dinners in trays as cooking xmas dinner makes so many pots and mess'. I decided at this point the guy was off his chump and made plans to leave. Thing was, he was actually quite a failure in work and business it turned out (didn't know this initially as he lied to me) but having a showroom standard house at all times made him feel some kind of success it would seem. All I can say is fast as I went along with his foibles for an easy life, he then developed new equally barmy ones, I think it was just 'in him'. Seriously i would think about getting out before you lose your sanity , sometimes love just isn't enough. It sounds to me somewhat like you love her, but she needs a whipping post in life. If she has deep seated mental issues, you could be in for a very long haul.

OP are you prepared to give out more information as to how you came to be left miles from nowhere and why it was the wrong bacon.

Maybe it is too soon for your DW to want to talk about things dependent on what happened last weekend - and whether you have plans this weekend.

If her opinion is that you don’t support then there is no hope.

To Paraphrase midnight express ‘a bad machine doesn't know that he’s a bad machine’

She will never accept she is wrong. Personally I’d write a letter and move out for a few weeks. Once the fog has lifted you may not want to come back.

This will never get better.

I think I explained. Once i had done the shopping because my wife was going to cook a meal on the weekend for guests. When she came home on Friday night, she saw I’d got the wrong type of bacon, so she went ballistic. The solution was simple. I could go first thing the next morning to the shop. But it infuriated her. The next time we had gone away for the weekend camping. We were in the tent at night. My wife asked if everything was clean at home. I said I may have left a plate out but otherwise it was clean. She got furious and got in the car and drove off. She did come back about an hour later (so I exaggerate that I was stranded for long) but I wasn’t sure how I was going to get home and what to do with the tent and all the camping gear

My friend is married to someone like this. She gets shouted and screamed at if there are crumbs on the floor or worktops. Its their 45th wedding anniversary this year and she feels she's too old to start again alone. Its out and out war in her house though now as she has finally started to rebel a bit. He goes away on various drinking/fishing weekends with male mates and she sends him photos of their kitchen, knee deep in over flowing bins and used take away boxes. I think she should just leave. He gets worse as he gets older, instead of mellowing as she'd hoped he would.

OP are you prepared to give out more information as to how you came to be left miles from nowhere and why it was the wrong bacon

Does it matter? NOTHING can excuse that.

Accepting that your behavior is abusive is very hard, it is much easier to make excuses for it, poor MH, the other persons behavior pushed you into it etc.
It isn't surprising that your DW doesn't want to talk about it, it is a lot easier and more comfortable for her to sit with her narrative that this is all your own fault.
You could try printing out definitions of abuse including emotional abuse, your DW's behavior would meet them, but if she really doesn't want to acknowledge her issues you cannot make her.
I wonder if some counseling for you might be better to look at what you want in the future and why you accept this behavior from someone who is meant to care for you.

Sounds suspiciously like dysphoric mood caused by pmt or part of bipolar didorder - irrational uncontrollable anger and conviction she is right. She gets help or she gets out. I agree with counselling for yourself