Dealing with adult temper tantrums

[PointdeVue]

I'm writing after a big argument with my wife, and I realise every side has two stories, and I'm going to try to be as objective as possible.

My wife and I have disagreements about tidiness, which I guess is common enough, but whereas I think most people can meet in the middle, every so often, my wife will end up having a temper tantrum that is uncontrollable.

We went away this weekend to visit family, and we had a great family. I was the last person to leave the house on Thursday when we left. My wife is quite insistent about a number of jobs that I have to do before I leave the house. I'd put the blinds down, emptied the bin, unplugged the toaster, etc. When we got back on Monday evening, she immediately saw that the dishwasher had been left with the clean dishes in after the cycle had finished, there were some plates on the drying rack (dry), and the surface, by her standards, wasn't clean enough.

She starts screaming at the top of her voice at me, and I can't control her. She is saying how she hates me. I tried to keep calm, and I pointed out that we shouldn't shout. She continues screaming, and she ends up pouring a jug of water over me.

We sit in different rooms for a while, and when I go to bed, she screams for me to get out of bed. When I go to sleep in the guest bed, she screams to get out of the guest bed.

Eventually, next day she comes home, and starts screaming again. We have a guest, and when they go, she starts screaming again. I'm just trying to get some peace here and go and watch TV. When I go to bed, she ends up waking me at 2 in the morning to show me how to clean the kitchen properly (at one point, she even said she was thinking of killing herself over the cleanliness). Today, I am now exhausted.

I've tried to explain to her that her screaming and over-reaction is so out of normality, that I don't know how to react. She however thinks my tidiness in the kitchen is the real problem, whereas it seems clear to me that her reaction is the major problem. It would have taken less than five minutes to clean up the mess when we came home on Monday.

She says I don't take her seriously on the cleanliness, and to be honest, it's true. I'm not a neat freak, but I'm also fairly average in that regard. She sees my "messiness" as a big "fuck you" to her.

Most of the time, she is lovely, and I would say we have similar instances a few times a year (maybe around four times) where she flies off the handle. She doesn't seem to recognise the problem.

I know that many would say if it were the other way around, I should just leave, but I don't want to, and I love her, and I think we should be able to find a way around it.

I'd be grateful for any help, and also anything I might be missing. I want to see things from her point of view. Thanks

I’ll admit I’ve lost it at dh previously for not pulling his weight. But that’s because he did nothing. And I didn’t throw anything at him or make threats. I just told him I was pissed off. Loudly. And repeatedly.

Our house is messy. It’s clean. But we have a toddler who regularly makes the place look like a hurricane has hit.

Dh and I both work full time. We have a schedule. Ish.

He does the food shop, meal planning and bins. And most of the cooking. I do laundry and bathroom cleaning and change beds and majority of “house admin”.

I’d probably be annoyed if dirty dishes were left in the dishwasher while we were away. But clean ones? Meh.

Wrong bacon? Meh. (Unless I needed a specific type for a recipe and even then I wouldn’t shout and scream about it id probably try to make it work - I needed ground cinnamon a while ago for cinnamon rolls. Dh bought cinnamon sticks. He then proceeded to grind them for me).

I rarely say ltb. But it’s abusive so I’d be making moves to get out. Ducks in a row and all that.

I am by nature a shouty person, I was raised with people losing their temper and shouting, throwing and hitting things and people.
My DH is bad at tidying up after himself.
It drives me nuts. I could easily shout and sometimes throw things.
I don't because as an adult it is my responsibility to behave like one.
Mental health issues do not give people s pass to abuse others.
OP's wife needs to understand the above. Dc will push her buttons as well, would it be okay if she did this stuff to them?

Ask her if she thinks her reactions are proportionate and ask her how she thinks she made you feel.

OP, I don’t think this is about the cleanliness, I think your wife is very unhappy in some other way and is now fetishising about immaculate houses to distract from the general unhappiness, no way is her behaviour remotely ok or normal. She has either developed OCD or has something else going on in her head. I think you need a calm chat and try to get to the bottom of it, if she refuses to admit she has an issue then I think you have to rethink the relationship, she is also not in the head space to have kids,

That doesn't mean that like eme I haven't moaned loudly and repeatedly at times, but we are talking proper mess. Not clean dishes.

Ask if if any of her friends know what she is doing? How others would react if they knew what was going on.

What is termed as “ abuse” varies from one person to another dependent on a whole host of things

I first thought this was going to be a slightly sarcastic thread as I’m well aware adults throw temper tantrums - basically and very drummed down abuse is this - an adult being unable to express themselves vocally about feelings, emotions and a whole host of childhood drama/ trauma caught up in adult life

Just because she keeps this behaviour hidden from friends families guests this does not mean she is full on abusive.

No one knew I had depression even close family members because I could hide it - why because there are still those that’s believe it’s in the head, not a real illness even with all the education that’s going on.

Op - Your wife does not know how to express what’s going on because she has never been taught that all feelings are ok - all feelings are justified no matter what anyone else thinks - they are unique and personal - you need to show her that you love her - even the things you think are “abnormal” after all this is what love is supposed to be - unconditional - maybe then she will trust you to open up.

Good luck Op

I just can't understand why you rewarded her terrible behavior by cooking her dinner and cleaning up!!!

Again as someone who is diagnosed with depression these comments that she is very unwell and unhinged show a general lack of appreciation to what it is like to have MH issues

MH issues is not a get out or jail free card for your behaviour. Anybody who behaves the way this woman is needs to be dumped from a great height. Shameful behaviour. If you have an illness that makes you behave like an abusive cock then you need to make treatment a priority. NO excuses and I have plenty of experience with MH illness as a carer.

She may just be completely fucked off trying to get her DH to take notice of what she is saying which she has said many a time and has to continue saying. The situation escalates because he provokes it due to defending his own perspective and that’s how you end up with a jug of water over your head!

If you're at the point of tipping water over someone's head then you need to end the relationship yourself. There are no excuses.

I think you need to divorce her. Definitely don’t have kids with her - she will make their lives hell.

OP - you need to show her that you love her - even the things you think are “abnormal” after all this is what love is supposed to be - unconditional - maybe then she will trust you to open up.

You should be ashamed of yourself, greenberet. MH is absolutely no excuse for abuse. Unless a person is psychotic and completely divorced from reality, we are all responsible for our actions. This woman is seriously abusive.

Three members of my extended family (me, DF and DB2) have had quite serious MH issues so I know what I'm talking about.

I'm a sober alcoholic. And yet I never tried to tell people that because alcoholism is an illness they should accept my dreadful, booze filled behaviour. Because it's not true. And neither is your victim blaming post.

OP Your wife sounds mentally ill and she desperately needs help and to see the GP.

You need to decide you really want to stay with someone who has been abusing you so badly. And yes, what she is doing is abusive.

greenberet loving unconditionally people who abuse is not safe or healthy. There is significant amounts of what feel like victim blaming here. I am really surprised that in this day and age these ideas about abuse and partners who abuse are still around.

greenberet I think you need to leave the thread

I think that what is really problematic for people that don’t think this is abusive is the tipping of the water.

That’s a positive act done by this woman. And it is abusive. It’s physical. It shows a willingness to escalate in those terms. It also suggests real contempt for you.

Do not have children. That would be madness.

Separate, and leave gracefully as you can. You will be all the better for it.

All abusive people are nice sometimes- they cycle around and around and can be nice, charming and regretful. They are still abusive, and typically their behaviour gets worse and the nastiness occurs more and more often. By the time this happens, you may struggle to make good decisions for yourself.

Act now. It will be harder to do so later and the fallout will be even worse.

She may just be completely fucked off trying to get her DH to take notice of what she is saying which she has said many a time and has to continue saying.

Or she might not. It is rather clear that you're extrapolating from your own situation, greenberet. And, even if she has said many times that she wants the plates put away, how can the failure to do so possibly warrant this sort of reaction? They're clean plates, it' not as if they're growing mould or anything. Why shouldn't OP have some say in this?

I agree I think there's some serious projection going on here. You wouldn't tell a woman whose husband screamed at her and refused to let her sleep and threw water on her to 'love them harder'

They may be troubled and need love and understanding but their partner deserves to be safe and not subject to abuse.

Hi all

Just a reminder - we don't allow victim blaming or minimising on the boards. Please do bear this in mind before posting. Thanks

This isn't a 'temper tantrum'. It's abusive and please don't try to down play it. Imagine it the other way around....you threw a jug of water over her, made her get out of the marital bed, then made her get out of the spare bed???? She's a nut job! I know this because I was with the male version. You deserve much better @PointdeVue

Hi OP

Does she ever do the cleaning/dishes?

Do you keep a phone on you? Maybe making a recording next time if you can that can be played back might shock her.

I would write a letter/email as she cant answer back, she cant twist it back on to you, she cant derail your line of thought and If she went mad, id pack a bag and file for divorce.

And maybe councelling for yourself so you can work out your own reactions to this.

And finally ask yourself this - has her aggression escalating since the 1st time? What would be the outcome be if you left a dirty kitchen knife loitering on the work surface?

Well my comments have been reported - thanks very much MN - and for those who reported me

I was never out to minimise abuse - funnily enough I was trying to help the Op save his marriage rather than just cry abuse like the rest of you.

When I say “abnormal” I’m talking about the crumbs she left on the worksurface.

I never said MH issues are an excuse for bad behaviour - I think you will find that most people with MH issues will have suffered some form of abuse themselves and the symptoms of MH are the mind trying to protect itself from some of the horrors they have been through - most forms of behaviour are learnt behaviour from their own family dynamics. Until they come across someone who doesn’t like the behaviour how are they supposed to know whether it is good bad or abusive - it all depends on what the other person’s tolerance limits boundaries whatever you want to call it.

Some people abhor swearing and would find it highly offensive others don’t - so going by some of the logic on hear all swearing is to be regarded as abhorrent and nobody is allowed to have a different opinion.

Just because most of you haven’t got a clue where I am coming from doesn’t mean I am wrong but as usual the mob rule

I’ve been through an abusive marriage still suffering the repercussions but I am prepared to give people the benefit of the doubt as Op said himself there are two sides!

I sincerely hope that this marriage is not abusive - I would not wish this on anyone - male or female - if the wife needs help I hope he can support her to get this - if I have got this wrong and this results in the end of the marriage well I’m sorry for that too!

@greenberet

I do appreciate yours and every comment on this thread. I’m taking it all on board

greenberet How can his wife not need help. She is:
Throwing water over him
Abandoning him in the countryside
Waking him at at 2am in the morning to scream at him.
Making him leave multiple beds

She isn't doing this in front of people she is waiting until they are gone. So she has some control over her actions and knows that they aren't correct.
Although adults are very unlikely not to know the above behavior isn't okay.
OP should think very hard about whether he wants to save a marriage to a person who abuses him.
It is also important to consider the damage that DW could do to a dc if she behaved like this. Dc leave crumbs everywhere in my experience!

Acis I think if you read the thread the Op said this

From my wife’s perpectives, she sees things that she has told me to do time and time again, and she does say she is frustrated with me not doing everything.

Did you miss this?

I’m out of this thread - Most if my comments have been deleted - im not going to engage in justifying why I’ve said what I’ve said

We do not have to share the same view - otherwise we’d still be drowning witches!

I think the main point here is whether she sees her own behaviour as acceptable (which it clearly isn’t). I can imagine having a rant about something in the heat of the moment, but to carry it on over & over and to wake you up in the night is clearly insane. I’m presuming she would never to do that to a friend or work colleague so why does she think it’s acceptable to do it to you. You live in the house too, why does everything need to be done her way? That’s very controlling, if she was absolutely apologetic after her outbursts & realise she has overreacted that’s one thing, but she sounds like she needs some serious help. No one deserves being woken up to be ranted at, let alone for it to be over cleaning! If you had DC with all the messiness they bring your life (and theirs) would be awful.