Counseling - just wants to point fingers blame etc

[Inliverpool1]

A family member has been in counselling for a while, I’ve been invited for a family therapy session. Had one previously where I sat and listened to them basically point the finger blame for everything wrong in their life, despite not having been in it for 3 years and generally pick apart the past.
For my own sanity I cannot do this. I will not justify my decisions - I did the best I could at the time with the information I had. It’s now been suggested that I watch behind a screen whilst this person pours her heart out - fine I’m ok with that bit. But then basically it’s my turn and I get kinda interviewed I guess.

And I don’t want to.
I’m over this stuff. It’s staying in the past as far as I’m concerned and that’s that.
Any experiences ?

mummmy2017 - do you know what the polices response was when I told them the kids were alone ? That I needed to get myself home.
Nobody gives a fuck, you are literally banging you’re head against a brick wall.

Why can’t you let her finger point and get it all out? You might see what’s messing her up. It might be a way in.

She needs you to make that move.

at 15 she shouldn’t have any concerns!

But clearly she does.

This is a child that got tangled in your bad relationship breakdown.

If you still love her just do it

mummy I’m telling you know from experience all those fired back questions will sound like excuses. She will not want to listen to reason. She is angry. She wants to punish her mum but also wants her mum to love and nurture her. OP can break that cycle

OP dd is probably still stuck at the age things started to go bad. OP needs to go, take it all on the chin, apologise and ask her how they can move forward. Completely suck it up and move on - with dd in her life.

Getting the authorities involved again will just add fuel to the fire.

op let her finger point and apologise. Build bridges. Mother her.

She got trapped in this situation - help her out of it. Because when your old and she has gone full NC and you don’t see your grandkids or be present at her wedding - you will regret it.

What else is Liverpool to do...
I have been here, blamed by DD...
I pointed out the obvious, and everytime she started I repeated it...
Just the unvarnished truth...
Sometimes trying to soften it and pander to your children does not work... Being straight does .
And it is me friends get to help them talk to their children....
Because I make them face a truth.

You need to separate your perspective/opinion and fact. If a child is emotionally abused you especially need to do it. And you need to signpost that you are doing it. By practicing these skills yourself, you give a child to skills to do it for themselves and start questioning what another parent is incorrectly presenting as fact.

But you have to get fact and perspective
straight. Your perspective is not fact. Some of what you are listing as fact is actually opinion or perhaps more accurately your perspective on events. Perspective isnt intrinsically right or wrong, you might believe yourself to be right, your ex or your child might disagree. You have a right to your interpretation of events, other people have a right to theirs. .. Its only by giving children the skills to understand these differences and the space to exercise these skills can kids work stuff out for themselves.

I suspect thats much of the value of counselling. By refusing to engage you make yourself the less dependable party, why should your child accept you version of events when atm its her dad who is saying he will be there for her regardless?

If you do engage, Only ever correct FACT. If something is perspective "thats one perspective. My perspective is this..." Dont devalue the other persons perspective.

Because I make them face a truth

You mean your truth.

the polices response was when I told them the kids were alone ? That I needed to get myself home.

Fact the children were home alone. Your perspective someone should have done something. Police's perspective you should have got home. Fact if it was my kids i would gave been home like a shot.... my perspective is different to yours on this, your DDs perspective may be different again. Theres value in looking have how and why those differences occur

@GreenEggsHamandChips Fact they were in his care. End of story, it’s not perspective at all. The police also had a duty of care having been given the information the children were alone, that is not perspective either.

Green eggs do tell..
How can it be anything else but dad's fault if he is at the home looking after children and he is not there for 3 days..

Go one tell us, I am dying to know how you know better than the police.

Fault is an entirely different question altogether. Its often not that handy. theres whose legally at fault, whose morally at fault, who someone feels is at fault etc. All of those may be different and only the first one is independent from the persons Anyone, especially a offspring bombarded by two different sets of parental experience, values and feelings will struggle to develop their own independent .

Fact they were in his care. End of story yes fact was you had left them in his care. end of story is your perspective on that fact.

Sorry typo

...only the first one is independent from the persons perspective

OP, you sound like you really need counselling and support yourself. You're clearly still incredibly angry at your ex and your mother (and probably for perfectly valid reasons) and this seems to be coming out as anger at your daughter, for being in some way 'on their side' - rather than your realising that your dd is a victim of their behaviour too.

You should engage with your poor dd, who I get you see as an extension of your ex, blaming you using the same words that your ex did. That must be really hurtful and difficult to process for you. But your dd is not your ex - she is your dd and is also suffering.

Take time to cry for yourself, to deal with your own anger and pain - and then listen, calmly and caringly, to her anger and pain. It won't be easy, so get help from counselling etc to support yourself through it first.

Bringing up kids is hard, even in the best circumstances, and don't expect them to be grateful for it till they're much older (if at all). It still has to be done there. It's part of being a parent. It's really hard - but you can't walk away. You need to listen, acknowledge what she went through and explain without blaming or anger why you did what you did, so she can understand.

I'm wondering what the problems were that led to her getting help from CAMHS? I know you said no diagnosis but what was her behaviour like?

I think the main issue here is that your ex has told her too much. She knows all the adult stuff, yet she’s still a child. She doesn’t have the life experience to interpret the texts that she’s read. This is so tricky because she shouldn’t know the stuff she knows. He’s obviously been telling her everything which has damaged her mental health. At your daughters age I was an emotional mess and I had a fairly drama free upbringing but I was still all over the place. If I was you, I’d go. I think it’s the act of actually going and making that effort that will sit with her in years to come. In 10 years time rather than looking back and saying you couldn’t give a shit enough to even come to counselling, she will know you did make the effort. I think you have to go and listen to all her outpourings. Listen and say “you are my daughter. I love you. The things that went on between me and your dad are adult issues and you shouldn’t have been exposed to them. I would like us to be mother and daughter” I wonder if she’s reacting like this because it’s really an attempt to get your attention. Every 15 year old needs their mother.

I am not surprised your daughter is struggling. She has had a lotto deal with.
OP I think you are stuck in wanting your daughter to see the truth about her dad. But she will overtime make up heroine mind about him.
I think your goal needs to be to resestablish a relationship with her. So I would listen. Don't try and defend yourself. Acknowledge that she has had a lotto deal with. And answer her questions honestly.

I can understand your anger with your ex. He sounds a waste of space. But your anger is getting in the way here. So the police example, yes your ex should have been looking after the kids. But the police can't make him. All they can do is get the other parent to look after them or take the kids into care. But your immediate response seems to be anger at your ex, rather than concern about your kids.

I am also concerned that you seem to imply your daughter is to blame for her reactions when your younger kids are fine. But your daughter was older, she would have understood much more about what was going on, and so will have been affected more by it.

You also say it is none of your daughters business about maintenance payments. But if this is important to her, why would you not explain it? Remember you don't know what your ex has said to her, so all she may be doing is checking out whether what he told her is true or not. But don't expect her to share this with you.

You might also find it useful to read how to talk so teenagers will listen.
Also agree that finding a way to deal with your own feelings would be helpful.
I am also amazed that you think a 15 year old wanting to talk about what happened when she was 12, is raking over the past. Her wanting to talk about these things is perfectly natural and to be expected.

And many things happen to us all that may be u avoidable, but we are still allowed to feel angry or upset about them.

It sounds like the counsellor is trying to get you to imagine how your daughter feels. So try and understand things from her point of view, and not your own.

Have you said to your Dd, recently, that she is welcome to come and live with you?

It sounds to me as if the father is totally unsuitable to be looking after your Dd, maybe Dd realises she has made a terrible mistake and now wants to move out. She will feel very stupid about this mistake and instead of apologising and blaming her father, is blaming her mother for not “rescuing” her. (Even though you didn’t want her to live there in the first place!).

Yes it’s all screwed up, but some teenagers are like that.

@LizzieSiddal first thing I said when I saw her last weekwhilst she was announcing we weren’t reconciling. He’s terrible, the other kids love him but know he’s not reliable etc. she’s trying to tell me she’s always been closer to him - he literally wasn’t there for the first 6 years

I'm so happy for you @differentnameforthis . OP I've come back as someone tagged me or whatever but I just want to say that I think the counselling will help your daughter here, finding the right person is key.

From experience it's very confusing comig from a broken home. She's a child and as much as she is wrecking your head it's not her fault. I'm not saying it's your and please don't get defensive I'm only trying to help to maybe see things from her perspective and I think you very much care even though you say "fuck this" earlier, you've spent couple of days now on here trying to figure out what to do so I think you def do care and I think she does too just doesn't know how to show it.

There is no logic when it comes to the heart and she's too young to even know her own mind no matter how much she thinks she's right. You do deserve compassion too you've been thorough so much.

I know you are prob a ball of angry and I can see why you've hard it rough with him, but please let your guard down with her she sounds so angry too and where does anger come from hurt that's all angry ppl are hurt ppl and she needs you to be the person that fights for her, those other ppl in her life don't sound good for her please show her you care she's literally asking you to x mind yourself xxx

The issue is, we or I have no control over who the right person is. I speak to her counsellor who seems level headed enough to realise a lot is wrong with her current situation. But if nobody else does it’s impossible isn’t it?

Nothing is impossible Inliverpool1 maybe hard but not impossible it's her little life we're talking about here and she sounds incredible messed up I feel for you too don't get me wrong you sound like you've been through the mill but she's your blood and doesn't sound like a murder or a grown adult who has done moral wrongs in the world. I'm just saying please help her it sounds like she really need you xxx

“It sounds like she really needs you”

I agree and whilst she doesn’t appear to you to be showing it, by asking you to come to therapy I think she is saying “Mum, I need you”
Keep reminding her that you love her and that you will be there, no matter what.
She will come round one day, the problem is you don’t know whether that will be in a month or 5 years, but the best thing you can do is let her see you will do (almost) anything to be there for her, when she asks you- which she is doing now by asking you to go to therapy with her.

for you because being a mum is sodding hard.

I’m kinda thinking get a few more of my ducks in a row first. I currently live nearly 200 miles away which is again circumstantial, nobody’s fault. I would like to stay here but she’s 4 years away from independence so moving closer to her seems the most logical solution. That’ll take time, doing the house up a bit, selling it, buying another. She does get birthday and Christmas gifts from me, valentines cards, Easter eggs. She knows.

At that point I think paying for a well researched therapist might be a better plan

I'm glad your coming around Liverpool she really does need you and will thank you eventually x the gifts mean nothing tbh, ppl have tried to buy me in the past not saying that's what your doing but that's the way it feels to someone who gets stuff but just wants love and effort xxx

She doesn't know though, she's 15 - not really seen you in 3 years, you live 200 miles away.

Whatever the logical reasons for this, they don't matter to her. You paying for a better therapist is all well and good but it sounds like she needs you before she goes off and has independence.