I've got to end this, haven't I? So fucking stupid.

[CampfiresAndBeer]

My head is in a complete spin and I don't know what to do for the best. I can't think straight.

I've been seeing someone since Jan. Very compatible. He's kind, thoughtful and loving.

But I've been worrying about the fact his ex wife and subsequent ex girlfriend are both far, far, far more attractive than me - slim, fit and beautiful. I'm just not. I'm best described as 'soft and curvy'; more accurately as 'plump'. I don't wear make up, my hair is natural and just left wavy - I never style it. Appearance wise, I'm the right side of 'average' in a good light...

I supposed to be meeting a small group of his oldest and closest friends in a couple of weeks and, to say I've been feeling a bit anxious about it would be an understatement.

I know his friends are going to be judging me on my 'suitability' for him and comparing me to his exes. It's normal and I know mine did when they met him! The fact they judged him favourably is besides the point.

I've been so anxious about it, I've been trying to manage the drive to call the whole thing off - the meeting of friends and the relationship. He doesn't know this. I've been working on talking myself down from just running away from it all but he's just said something that's sent all my barriers up

We were having a jokey text exchange and I responded to something with "ah no, don't say that, I'm already worried your friends will wonder what you see in me!" and his reply was, "Don't worry about what they think. It's what I think that matters and I think you're beautiful".

So he knows exactly what I mean. They will be wondering what he sees in me because I'm not as slim, pretty etc as his exes. And he is also acutely aware that they are going to be thinking that because he also knows it's true. Fucksake, I know it's true!

I'm such an idiot for thinking this could ever have been anything real or proper. My biggest relationship fear is being settled for..

I just need to learn that I'm not cut out for relationships, that this is all I'll ever be - not quite good enough and just stop deluding myself it could ever be anything different.

I'm just so fucking stupid 😢

And really sad.

@Whatad - you're just being plain nasty - please go away!

Yes but I don’t have to answer your weird demands @Whatad. You’ll see what I posted upthread if you can see past all that red mist.

You really do need to calm down, dear. You’ll give yourself an ulcer.

It’s utterly unhinged to be that angry about a total stranger’s life.

But if his friends have never met you how do you or him know what they think

and his point surely was it doesnt matter anyway because he thinks you are beautiful

I agree I think you are so caught up in this you are being self absorbed by thinking people hold a negative opinion of you when actually it has not even occurred to them yet to have an opinion

I think whatad is right in a way, therapy can only do so much, you have to take it on board. Not easy though when things are so ingrained. Been there myself.

@TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross

I love you for quoting Buffy 💕

@Sausage101 Oh for goodness sake please don't encourage @Whatad any further!!

I think @Whatad is a bit triggered and I don’t mean that in an insulting way. People asking for advice yet continually saying “Yes but” can be infuriating if someone else like a parent has done that to you all your life. Eventually you can snap and come across as harsh or unsympathetic but it often stems from frustration when you’re giving advice repeatedly but someone doesn’t appear to want things to improve. It’s one of my own bugbears because it triggers my C-PTSD and used to make me irrationally stressed so a year or two ago I would have had to leave the thread.

The thought of trusting that this man and his friends might actually be nice, not judge people on their looks and so on is so unknown to @campfires that it’s easier to run away and self-sabotage. Lots of people have given you really good advice, Campfires, but ultimately - as I keep saying - only you can decide whether you want things to change and give this man and his friends a chance, or whether you want to keep listening to the lies your inner critic is telling you, because that’s easier; it’s what you know and you can say “I told you so”.

@Whatad that is bloody disgusting and skirting very close to a personal attack. You dont have to read. You don't have to reply. You are coming across as overinvested with anger issues.

OP, take no notice. People do care.....for start, a whole load of strangers on MN who have posted to help.

You need to look deep inside and ask yourself if you want a relationship. If You do, you need to maybe see your GP because your negative self talk is so entrenched that even dozens of women trying to give you a different perspective, is just washing over you. The NHS does CBT and can even advise on recommened online CBT courses. I think the "Living Life to the Full" website is the one GPS refer to.

To be honest, and it is hard for me to assess without seeing you face to face, obviously, it sounds as if these thoughts are going round in your head like a record. There is help for that. Honestly. Please see your GP. This sounds like a type of anxiety/obsessive thought pattern which is stopping you being happy.

Counselling helps you identify what caused the problem. CBT helps you to get over the problem. That's a basic way of putting it anyway.

You are lovely. He sees that in you. We all do too. But You don't. And it doesnt have to be like that.

All the best for the future

This is painful. You are so obsessed with looks, OP. Trust me, not everyone thinks that way and the people that do aren't worht your while. Well, my while.

You are cross with him because he knows you are less physically attractive

But you say that it’s true- you are physically less classically attractive

So he can’t win can he?

Or he doesn’t see attractiveness the same way you do maybe?

His past girlfriends may have done and as such presented themselves as attractive to people they deem equally so which is why he ended up with them. IYSWIM.

But maybe he doesn’t and didn’t think he was aiming low when you showed interest but was genuinely attracted to you and everything that makes you you.

But you are being a tiny bit unfair on him and self indulgent here.

If you can’t hack the truth that you are less classically physically beautiful than his previous partners and friends but that it doesn’t matter to him and yet it matters to you then yes end it.

You need to get some therapy, this is a self fulfilling prophecy you are creating here. And 'creating' is absolutely the right word because you are doing this all on your own. It doesn't have to have this narrative you know, the story doesn't have to go like this. You are steering it. Get out of your own way, love and just be happy. He sounds really into you!

Counselling helps you identify what caused the problem. CBT helps you to get over the problem. That's a basic way of putting it anyway.

Yep. ^^ Good advice.

What clothes size and height are you?

Having read the info about your weight patterns, I strongly suspect you are nowhere near ‘fat.’ If you were too skinny 3 st ago, and having gained that have now lost 16lbs, that would make you about average?

OP I also dont think people saying that you are obsessed by looks are meaning it in a bad way. Not in a way that implies vanity.

Your mum and exes taught you that looks really matter and that you don't come up to par in that department.

Well, all of us have people better looking than us. Those people may be our partner's exes. But your mum and exes were shallow and nasty. Not everyone is obsessed with looks like that. Or age. Or any of those other shallow things. That was their problem.

You can either buy into their superficial mindset and judge your partner's exes as "worthy" and you as "unworthy", or you could ask yourself if looks really are a true mark of value.

If they are, how did Simon Weston get married after being badly burned in the Falklands? How did Stephen Hawking manage to get married again? How do couples manage to stay together if the woman has a breast removed to cancer?

Your mum's thinking was warped. You may not be a model. But even if you looked like the back end of a bus, people will fancy you because of your personality. Again.....see Shane McGowan! 😀

You need to get some therapy

According to the OP she's had a fair bit of therapy over decades. One therapist did end the therapeutic relationship because they felt they weren't getting anywhere.

One therapist did end the therapeutic relationship because they felt they weren't getting anywhere

That could mean the therapist was crap or that the OP wasnt in a place where it could penetrate at that time.

Noone should ever be put off from getting help just because it hasn't worked before.

OP I just told my other half about this thread. He said "sounds to me like her bloke just loves her". So there you go!

Thanks.

This is going to be my last post now but just wanted to answer/address a couple of things.

It sounds more like what a teenager would obsess about and not someone who has a bit of life experience under their belt.

I have plenty of life experience - all of it has led me to this point. I'm being asked (and I understand why) to ignore and reject every single thing I've learned throughout my life and believe something completely different. I'm clearly just not in a place where I can do that.

Why did you even start dating him or pursue him or even show him you were interested?

Because I just liked him. He caught my eye, we got talking and got on well. We spent some time together and he asked me out. At that stage, I felt reasonably confident. I've been single for 4 years and done a lot of work on myself during that time and have made huge progress. I didn't realise unless this particular issue arose that I haven't made quite as much progress as I thought or needed to have done for a relationship.

I really appreciate everyone's thoughts and contributions - especially the thoughtful advice and people who've shared their own experiences. I haven't been deliberately obtuse, I've read everything and been trying to process and rationalise what is being said with what I believe and trying to see it differently. I could have just said, "ok thanks very much - all sorted now" after the first few posts but I would still be in exactly the same place as I was.

He doesn't know this is how I feel - he doesn't have a clue. The exchange we were having was really light hearted and my initial comment referred to something that was nothing at all to do with looks or appearances. I think he would consider me to be quite self confident - I mask it well. There was nothing in the exchange to make him think I was insecure or referring to looks but that is the level he responded on.

He wasn't addressing my insecurities in that comment, he was revealing his own thinking and I'm not going to be able to get past that. And even if I'm completely wrong, it's the explanation that makes the most sense to me.

I'm not sure what the air of being educated and different is all about and I don't care who has eaten what meals or with whom. If Whatad knew anything about me or my life then they would see the the ridiculousness of that whole post.

But I agree that I'm not in the right place for a relationship. I can hear the words and understand the meaning but it's just not penetrating at all. It's just making my head foggy trying to make sense of it. It's upsetting me and frustrating other people. And that's just ridiculous.

So I am going to end it. Not because I think he is an awful man but because I clearly have a long way to go and it isn't fair to drag him down with me.

Thanks again.

Oh OP - how sad! :-( I hope your man talks you out of it I really do. xx

Why not have a chat with him OP and let him decide if he wants to work through this with you. He may well do.

Whatever you choose to do, all the very best

First things first, your son sounds fab - what a great job you've done there.

Secondly, I kind of get what you're saying, in that I have long been unhappy with my looks and hugely uncomfortable if something makes me aware of how other people perceive me. OTOH, I have not had half the shitty experiences you have had, so I can't comment or give advice from that point of view.

What I would say, though, is that it's normal to feel insecure early in a relationship. Maybe that isn't the right word. What I mean is, you don't know if this is going to go to long term, you know that there is a lot you don't know about the other person, you haven't had time to see if you can trust what they say.

So, really, you just have to park it all and think, a couple of years down the line, it will all be clearer. Maybe you'll be single and making the great job of it that you were before. Or maybe you'll still be with this man and repeatedly finding it unfathomable that he finds you beautiful, but , he seems to.

The other thing I want to say may well be unhelpful, and if so, please ignore, but it's what I'd try to do and that is: when these preoccupations with looks turn up, give them a dismissive "meh" and move your thoughts on. Allow yourself to be bored by it all, to find the superficiality of it a huge turn-off. You sound like a great person (from the friends you have, your wise son and your workplace turnaround), so crowd out the negative thoughts with ones that interest you.

Ah this has been hard to read, it must be such a struggle when your mum and exes have done such damage to the way you see yourself.
As you seem to want to focus on facts, would it help to break it down a bit? So let's says for the sake of argument, that attraction is 25% looks, 25% sexual attraction/chemistry, 25% shared values and interests, 25% personal attributes (kindness, sense of humour etc).
Say his exes score full points for physical attributes, but low on the others - you are probably much more attractive than they are, as an overall package. Plus, the longer you stay in a relationship, the more important those other things become. Believe him when he says you're beautiful.
He sounds like a great guy, and I hope you can find some way to let him love you without second guessing him.

Sorry, missed your last update while I was posting. I hope you can find peace and happiness in the end OP, whatever you decide about this relationship.

Oh ok. Just read your latest post, and it's reminded me what I wanted to say in my post above but forgot:

Between now and that point two years off, why not just take it easy, enjoy the times you meet up, but don't get too attached too soon. Don't share too much about your insecurities too soon. DP and I did a lot of just enjoying each other's company before we ever mentioned really personal stuff.

Instead of breaking it off, may I suggest bowing out of the meet-the-friends event? My DP was terrified of meeting my friends or family, for the same reasons you have, so I didn't push it and it was a year before he met them. Put it off till next year. He's already said he wants you to be happy more than anything else - so he should be fine with this. If not, that's a fault in him. Not in you.

Listen to your son more than your inner voice.

@CampfiresAndBeer please don't give up on him without having an honest discussion with him.

I completely understand and get your thought process including the despair over the logic not penetrating into your core belief.

You know perhaps he'll still like and love you even with the flaw that you don't like or love yourself... my partner does, still get crises and horrible huge doubts but it passes again and i plod along and tell that inner voice to shush again.