I've got to end this, haven't I? So fucking stupid.

[CampfiresAndBeer]

My head is in a complete spin and I don't know what to do for the best. I can't think straight.

I've been seeing someone since Jan. Very compatible. He's kind, thoughtful and loving.

But I've been worrying about the fact his ex wife and subsequent ex girlfriend are both far, far, far more attractive than me - slim, fit and beautiful. I'm just not. I'm best described as 'soft and curvy'; more accurately as 'plump'. I don't wear make up, my hair is natural and just left wavy - I never style it. Appearance wise, I'm the right side of 'average' in a good light...

I supposed to be meeting a small group of his oldest and closest friends in a couple of weeks and, to say I've been feeling a bit anxious about it would be an understatement.

I know his friends are going to be judging me on my 'suitability' for him and comparing me to his exes. It's normal and I know mine did when they met him! The fact they judged him favourably is besides the point.

I've been so anxious about it, I've been trying to manage the drive to call the whole thing off - the meeting of friends and the relationship. He doesn't know this. I've been working on talking myself down from just running away from it all but he's just said something that's sent all my barriers up

We were having a jokey text exchange and I responded to something with "ah no, don't say that, I'm already worried your friends will wonder what you see in me!" and his reply was, "Don't worry about what they think. It's what I think that matters and I think you're beautiful".

So he knows exactly what I mean. They will be wondering what he sees in me because I'm not as slim, pretty etc as his exes. And he is also acutely aware that they are going to be thinking that because he also knows it's true. Fucksake, I know it's true!

I'm such an idiot for thinking this could ever have been anything real or proper. My biggest relationship fear is being settled for..

I just need to learn that I'm not cut out for relationships, that this is all I'll ever be - not quite good enough and just stop deluding myself it could ever be anything different.

I'm just so fucking stupid 😢

And really sad.

Hi lovely. When you meet your friends other halves, what do you base their likeability on? I'll tell you what I base it on..how nice they are and how much they make my friends happy. If they're easy to talk to and fun to be with, all the better. Their looks never once goes into anything. And even my most beautiful friends don't consider themselves beautiful. He's not with his exes for a reason. He's with you for a reason. Attraction is about the person not what they look like. Their wit, brain, caring nature, knowledge, how fun they are to spend time with. When you have sex with a man, what's more important? How you make each other feel, or that he's got a ripped body?

My ex, for example, for all his faults, found me as attractive when I was a toned size 10 as when i was nudging a size 16.

If someone dumped me because they felt they weren't attractive enough for me, I would be devastated.

I completely know how you feel when it comes to confidence. My other half is lush and very good looking so when I met him I really thought his ex’s would be really good looking - they wasn’t, and I am guilty for Facebook stalking some of them
They were average looking.
I still now think his eyes could wander, but im building my confidence and working on post baby weight (baby is 15 months)
I have extra weight, stretch marks and bags under my eyes.
Don’t ruin what you have, because you will only push him away.
Go get your hair done, nails done and get a new outfit to try feel a little better in yourself - it won’t solve things, but a little pampering makes me feel like me again... especially when i have a 15 month old that breastfeeds almost 24/7 and I love the escape

Bloody hell, give the poor bloke some credit. You are insulting his intelligence by assuming that you know better than him what he wants

But, as I keep saying, it isn't that I don't think he likes me it's that I'm struggling with the knowledge that his exes were/are more attractive than me. And I do worry that I'm not as desireable as a result or that he won't be as sexually attracted to me as a result.

I just don't want him to feel like I'm 'lacking' or that he's missing out on something because I'm not 'better'.

I am so sorry you feel like this. I really get it. Very very hard to undo all that conditioning.

If this helps at all, remind yourself that if your mate came to you and told you she was scared of meeting her boyfriend's family and friends for the same reasons, you'd give her a genuine heartfelt pep talk about how great she was, and how they'd love her for all the qualities you and he partner do. And then if it turned out her partner's mates had indeed been shitty to her about her looks compared to his exes, you'd think and say that they were a shower of shallow shits and buy her a vat of wine. Be that mate to yourself. You sound bloody lovely and you deserve a good man, which atm he sounds like. Agree you should talk this through with him as well, esp as he seems a good'un.

Good luck xx

especially when i have a 15 month old that breastfeeds almost 24/7

I remember those days! Esp delightful when they walk up to you, help themselves and still try to look over their shoulder to watch TV...

I do go to the hair dressers but I never get my nails done or anything like that - I don't like being touched particularly! And my hands/nails are really sensitive. I'm currently working on fitting back into clothes I've barely worn and grown out of since buying so not buying anything else new until I've lost another stone at least! But it's a good suggestion. I do need to probably self care a bit more. I've neglected it a bit the past few days.

I prefer to make a bit of music - play my guitar or something like that; sit in the garden under the stars at midnight. That's more my self care. I should do some of that tonight tbh.

If someone dumped me because they felt they weren't attractive enough for me, I would be devastated

So would I but I'm equally not stupid. I know which of the men I've slept with have been better looking or had better bodies than others. So will he. And it's knowing that I'll be down there at the bottom that bothers me

I always imagined that, one day, I'd meet someone who thought I was the best thing to ever happen to them or the most beautiful woman they'd ever met. A friend of mine is 66 and he has been seeing someone for just over a year that he feels like this about. I never have met anyone who feels like that about me and now I have to come to terms with the fact I never will.

Probably sounds silly and a bit idealised but it's how I feel.

I just don't want him to feel like I'm 'lacking' or that he's missing out on something because I'm not 'better'.

You are insulting his choice and taste, in questioning his decision to be with you. You are insulting his intelligence and character. You are basically saying he is shallow and vain when it is obvious he is not or he wouldn't be with you.

We are going round in circles. You just won't see the truth despite everyone saying the same thing. Your answer is "yes but..."
I do feel sorry for him and you. You are stuck in that negativity but he will have to live with your negativity and I really believe that it might become a self fulfilling prophecy. He could very well finish with you - but it won't be because of your looks, it will be because of your negativity and lack of self belief.

Sorry if I sound harsh but you are so determined to self sabotage this relationship that the poor bloke has no chance. He can't do right for wrong. You will push him away. And then you will blame your looks in your mind when in reality that will have been nothing to do with it. But it will have reaffirmed your self belief that you are not good enough. Perhaps that has already happened in the past? If not it is likely to happen in the future. A viscious circle of negativity.

Please, please give him some credit to make his own choices. He doesn't need you to make them, for him. Not everyone is vain and shallow.

I really hope you give the poor guy a chance.

Agree you should talk this through with him as well, esp as he seems a good'un.

I think he is.

And I don't think they'd be shitty to me directly. I just hate the thought that they'd be commenting about me behind my back and thinking he could do better and had done in the past.

Follow the page on Facebook (if you have Facebook) ‘ body positive mama ‘ I LOVE reading the posts and how women can make you feel like you are worth it, and how every woman deserves to feel beautiful

Or maybe they will just think

"She's nice. He seems happy. Thank God he's found someone nice and straightforward who makes him happy"

The group creator is riona- the unnatural woman. She’s amazing

You just won't see the truth despite everyone saying the same thing. Your answer is "yes but..."

I do get that. And I do feel better a little better about it all, but this is the truth to me. As much as I understand what everyone is saying, and I know I'd be saying the same to anyone else, it's what makes sense to me.

Perhaps that has already happened in the past?

No. My relationship between 25 and 37 was loveless and sexless. He was the ex who wouldn't introduce me to his friends etc because I wasn't attractive enough and he was ashamed of me. He had an emotional affair with someone at work and I kicked him out.

At 38, I looked and felt my best and I dated a man for 10+ months who told me that I could stand to lose weight. Sex was shit and, ultimately, revealed that he was with me because he thought the chance of me cheating was less than his more attractive ex. I ended it.

Just before my 40th birthday, I met a man who I really clicked with. We got on brilliantly and everything just fell into place. Then I turned 40 and it all changed. He admitted he'd found it difficult dating an 'older woman'. He was older than me. I dumped him.

But I do know that I have previously rejected men from the offset if I've deemed them to be 'too good' for me.

This man wouldn't have got a look in 18 months ago for that reason.

Or maybe they will just think...

Maybe. But they will still observe that I'm 'less' than his exes. They will be aware of it even if they don't care about it.

B3ck89

Thank you. I will check it out.

I can see where you're coming from - what you probably wanted to hear was that you're gorgeous full stop, but he sort of admitted it was subjective and that they might not agree with his opinion. Which is true.

But in a way it's good that he's not trying to bullshit you into thinking you're a supermodel - that would raise some red flags.

I always imagined that, one day, I'd meet someone who thought I was the best thing to ever happen to them

Well, you doof, perhaps you have!!!!! Being the best thing that’s ever happened to someone isn’t about being the most ‘pretty’. 🙇🏻‍♀️

There’s a bloke in my past that was probably the best thing that ever happened to me. Too long & boring to explain, but he was SO good for me. He was also the oldest & least (objectively) attractive bloke I’ve ever been with, but the way he made me feel was amazing and so he was attractive to me, even though I could see he wasn’t ‘handsome’ to others. My friends thought he was fab.

(I knew that sadly we’d never stay together because we wanted vastly different things out of life, but that had nothing to do with ex’s or looks).

or the most beautiful woman they'd ever met

I can see where you're coming from - what you probably wanted to hear was that you're gorgeous full stop, but he sort of admitted it was subjective and that they might not agree with his opinion. Which is true.

Oh god no, I wouldn't have wanted him to say that for precisely the reasons you say.

I hadn't really thought about the response I expected if I'm honest with you. But, yes, his response read to me like he was agreeing with the voice in my head.

The context of the exchange wasn't looks based at all but his response and comment that he thinks I'm beautiful made me think that he was answering it from a 'looks' perspective and that he is well aware that they will think I'm less attractive than his exes.

And, tbh, my interpretation of that hasn't changed.

I think that's what upset me the most.

That the thought I am less attractive is already in his head.

That he knows it will be in his friends' heads.

In a nutshell. Everyone is trying to reassure me that something won't be the case when he has already revealed that it is.

And I don't think he intended to. I think he assumed that's what I meant was genuinely trying to reassure me but, in doing so, he revealed it nevertheless.

Well how long have you known him? It would be worrying if he was saying you were the best thing to happen to him in 5 minutes?

No, I know that, sausage I suppose it's just that if, at this stage, he's already thinking that I'm less attractive than his exes and is just reassuring me that what his friends say won't matter, then he's never going to feel like that, is he?

Oops. Posted too soon.

or the most beautiful woman they'd ever met

You may be the most beautiful woman he’s ever fallen for in his eyes. The whole package, to him, is beautiful.

However, wanting someone to think that purely physically you are the must beautiful woman they’ve ever met is setting yourself up for failure, no matter who you are.

It’s just so unrealistic. And plastic. If someone saw a photo of me & said I was the most beautiful woman in the world and they wanted to be with me, I wouldn’t even meet them. I wouldn’t want to be with someone who only wanted to be with me because I looked stunning*

*It isn’t EVER going to happen. 🤣😂🤣

Maybe. But they will still observe that I'm 'less' than his exes. They will be aware of it even if they don't care about it.

So if they don't care, your bf doesn't care, then why should you?

Yes I get that your previous bf's and your mother have been pretty shit and have caused you to have the mindset you have, but they are not everyone. Everyone is different.

If I go to an art gallery I can appreciate good art. I objectively know that its good art. It looks great but actually I might prefer that quirky little portrait from the market to hang in my home because it gives me more pleasure than the "perfect" artwork. It appeals to me on different levels. One is not better than the other because it's more "perfect". And I'd be very upset if someone criticised my taste because they think they know better than me, what I want hanging in my home.

The thing is, I think I've summed it up for myself in this:

The context of the exchange wasn't looks based at all but his response and comment that he thinks I'm beautiful made me think that he was answering it from a 'looks' perspective and that he is well aware that they will think I'm less attractive than his exes.

And, tbh, my interpretation of that hasn't changed.

I think that's what upset me the most.

That the thought I am less attractive is already in his head.

That he knows it will be in his friends' heads.

In a nutshell. Everyone is trying to reassure me that something won't be the case when he has already revealed that it is.

He already thinks I'm less attractive.

In a nutshell. Everyone is trying to reassure me that something won't be the case when he has already revealed that it is

NO HE HASN’T

YOU are choosing to take his comment like that.

What he said was HE thinks you’re beautiful and that’s all that matters to him. He’s an adult. He’s attracted to you and that’s all he cares about. Whether his friends think you’re attractive or not is irrelevant. They might think you’re absolutely stunning and it’s still irrelevant to him.

You’re taking what he said and twisting it to fit your narrative.

But even if he knows that you are physically less attractive, the rest of your personality might outweigh that and overall make you more attractive than his previous partners.

Looks are only one tiny part of a relationship. Otherwise how does anyone stay in love for 40 years and still fancy their 60 year old partner? It really is such a tiny part and you are intent on making it the ONLY thing in your mind.

See I think its your interpretation here that's the problem. Your summery @campfires says

That the thought I am less attractive is already in his head.

Its in YOUR head, he is aware it is there so was being a typical man, focusing on YOUR insecurity to reassure you.

Please see the man for what he is. From what YOU have told us. He is lovely, attentative, caring.

Please realise before you self sabotage, because to me, that's what this is.

It struck me that you were worried that his friends would see you and think "fucking hell, he must really like her." He does! That's not a bad thing!

Objectively, as people are all different, one of his exes must have been less attractive than the other, do you think he ever thought on those terms about them?

I don't know if this will help or not, but when I first got together with my husband I did worry that he wasn't as good looking as my previous partners, though I did and do fancy him. It played on my mind until one day I was on the phone to my sister and she commented that I sounded happier than I had for a long while and I realised that it was him that was making me so happy, duh. I realised that I was being ridiculous worrying about it. I haven't looked at another man in 20 years. Sex with him is better than I ever had with the supposedly more attractive men and I feel like he is the first person I can truly be myself with. He is intelligent, competent, passionate about things, funny and an equal partner. What more could I want? How he looks compared to other people really couldn't be more irrelevant.

Incidentally, none of my friends ever expressed the same thoughts as I did, even though we were a bit on and off again in the beginning and they had plenty of opportunities to!

If his ex’s were so damn perfect and attractive then they wouldn’t be ex’s would they?

You’re the one sabotaging the relationship, not him, not his friends. He clearly thinks you’re worth it and attractive or he wouldn’t be with you would he.

And at the end of the day, that is all that matters, not what his friends or anyone else thinks