I am Onit, hear me ROAR. Thread 5!

[onitlikeacarbonnet]

“I am not afraid of the storms for I am learning to sail my ship” Louisa May Alcott.

I was looking for something to call this thread and came across this quote.
It’s not entirely true; yet, but almost 3 years and 5 threads later, I actually almost believe I can do this.

But I still like the last thread title as it still feels fitting.
I’ll save the LMA quote for the next one.

Here’s a link to the last thread.
Hope you all find me, my amazing friends

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3211292-I-am-onit-hear-me-ROAR-occasionally

[MsPavlichenko]

Sounds like you are doing brilliantly! Unlike him, who is clearly losing it. Be prepared for him to keep ramping it up in an attempt to provoke you. Ignore, ignore, ignore.

[ArchieHarrison]

god you'd think his new squeeze would be really pissed off by the amount of energy he's channeling into this ludicrous bear baiting of you - why isn't she stopping him? None of this can be good for their relationship (& it's clearly been appalling for his relationship with his children. The twat.)

[historysock]

The CMS should get the info on his earnings via His wage slips etc shouldn't they? That's what happened in my case-they request, he has to submit? Then they work out his payments based on that.
Remember it will be less because he now lives with another woman and another dependant child (ludicrous but true)

[redastherose]

Hi Onit, I've followed along with you for the last few years as I split up with my Ex at more or less the same time. I can so relate to your comment

'His responses are 3 times the length and full of bile and accusations. He accepts responsibility for nothing, as proved by the single parent comment.'

This is exactly what my ex does. Despite having been separate for 3 years we are still not divorced due to his delaying and refusal to produce paperwork but constantly claims it is me delaying thing. And the pages of ranty texts I get is beyond belief. He will rant (possibly 3 or 4 full screens on the iphone worth of text) I will answer the salient points and will then receive the next epic response.

Fortunately, my DC's were much older so the Eldest wend NC with him (he says this is my fault despite it having happened when he'd spent several hours haranguing her) and the youngest goes for tea twice a week. She doesn't like staying over so rarely does so unless I am going to be away and her older sister isn't home from Uni.

These pathetic men will never ever ever take responsibility for their actions. Despite him being the one to have an affair with a girl young enough to be his daughter, lie about it for 6 months then do the whole 'we just fell in love' part of the script he was angry at me for telling friends the facts.

I hope you can get things sorted to help your DC deal with him as best as possible. One day they will probably be like mine with limited contact from one and NC from the other because they have seen what sort of man he truly is.

[onitlikeacarbonnet]

The bf said those exact words MsP, that he’s losing it.
Archie his gf is actively involved in almost all of this communication. And has been from the beginning.
It is incomprehensible to me that any woman could participate in good conscience but I remind myself that he had me fooled for many years longer than her so, while I despise her for the personal comments I’ve seen; Cunty McCuntface being my most favourite, (which to be fair, I shouldn’t have seen) I mostly feel pity for her.

He obviously resents the maintenance he pays to me because, regardless of it being used for the dc, he has made numerous comments about my part time, term job which he believes his money supports. And further, that I use that to restrict his contact as it means I’m around for the dc before and after school and during the holidays.

[ArchieHarrison]

Bizarre that now she’s a parent too that she doesn’t have any realisation of how cruel all this is. Remind me -they aren’t married are they?
How are things with your Bf going? No sign on the horizon of you moving in with him and finding a new job near his place?

[onitlikeacarbonnet]

A mutual friend who was very close to the gf before this blew our group apart, said to me when the gf fell pregnant that the guilt and realisation was in the post. I guess she was wrong.

They’re not married because they’re still married to their respective spouses.
Their baby has her last name which, in itself isn’t odd but when you find out she’s still using her married name it is,
Her and LCB’s ds has her husbands last name
Not sure I’ll ever get a divorce as I refuse to pay for it and he said he wouldn’t until after the contact was sorted.

The bf is looking for a job near me. It’s hard because he needs to split his time and keep his own place near his own dc. So he needs a very good salary. But he’s old so apparently unemployable.
I’m in no rush tbh. I like my space.
I’ll be delighted when it happens but, for now, it’s fine.

[ArchieHarrison]

you're a saint for not having moved the couple of hours towards the BF by now (and making contact really hard for ex knob)

[onitlikeacarbonnet]

Been off work with my back since last Sunday. Pain in my lower back, hips, thighs is fairly standard but now I have a stiff neck, shoulders and pain in my arm.
Doc appointment last week was running over 40 minutes late. I told her what was wrong but said I was under a tremendous amount of stress. She pretty much threw a prescription for diazepam at me and I walked out in tears.
Physio on Friday said it’s likely stress. The trauma causes your brain to reword sometimes and mental stress becomes physical pain. All he could offer was a place on a chronic pain group. In August. But he said he’d discuss my case with his team and I’d see him in 4 weeks again.
My counsellors been on holiday for 2 weeks. I guess that’s not helping.
I can’t exercise. I can’t even work it off with the bf .
Work is only going to ramp up the pressure to go back too. More stress.
Stop this bloody hamster wheel, I want to get off!

[endofthelinefinally]

If you can possibly afford it have a course of aromatherapy massage. Look for a proper clinic rather than a beauty salon - check their qualifications and insurance. Sometimes you can get special offers.
Massage has been proved to have beneficial effects on blood pressure, stress and immune system.
Gentler and more soothing than physio.
When you are stressed, you have chronic muscle tension, usually in back, neck, shoulders. That produces lactic acid which causes the pain.
You might be able to find a therapist who travels.

[onitlikeacarbonnet]

I’ve considered massage. I could possibly use the money I’ve saved from not going to counselling.
The physio didn’t do anything but chat on Friday. He could see the pain I was in and I cried because I know deep down there’s nothing majorly, physically wrong.
I asked about a chiropractor or osteopath and he said it might help short term but no more.

I’m in the waiting room now. Same doc as last week. I’m on the verge of tears already.

I need a bullet. Not a sickline.

[endofthelinefinally]

I used to volunteer in a support centre for cancer patients and their families. The aromatherapy really helped.
I have my IV treatment in the same unit as patients with cancer. They have a foot massage while their chemo is going.
It is very soothing for them.

[onitlikeacarbonnet]

Completely broke down in the surgery.
Doc has prescribed fluoxetine. Told me to stop taking the amitriptyline and diazepam.
She gave me a sick line for 2 weeks and said I could call in to ask for it to be extended as the fluoxetine takes a while to kick in.
She said the fact that my pain isn’t responding to medication means it’s probably stress induced.
The pain started after he first threatened court a year ago. Got worse over the months that followed and by the second hearing it was pretty much constant.

It’s apparently a common effect of trauma. The brain rewires itself when the mental pain is too much. It translates it to physical pain.
The physio said as much. My counsellor has suggested in in the last few months too. GP now agrees.

[Doidontimmm]

Can you get something in place where he has to contact you through a third party only? His Parents maybe?

[historysock]

Stress and anxiety definitely manifests itself in physical pain. Glad you have a bit of time off.
And you to the third party contacting you. You don't owe him anything at all. If he has to write to you via his solicitor due to your ill health-which he's bloody caused-the so be it.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I loathe that fucker...

[historysock]

If you can try and do some Pilates. It's better than yoga I think for the bod, but also for the mind. I'm the least woo person there is, and I have terrible arthritis-again worsened by Any sort of stress it seems-and it's the only thing that's taken the edge off.
Seem ridiculously trite suggestion I know but it has really helped me.

[onitlikeacarbonnet]

I miss going to the gym. Never ever thought I’d say that.
I’m not disciplined enough to work out at home. Though I ought to prioritise it.
I used to get up, sort the dc out for school, go for a run, laterally the gym, home, shower and ready for the day by 9.30.

I always fancied Pilates.

I have 3 emails to respond to which are difficult.
First one is about DD and DS to be fair as he’s not happy about going to his dads either.
Second is about summer holidays. Which is the ranty, frankly abusive one I got late Sunday night.
3rd is the maintenance one.

Lawyer contacted me today to confirm the motion and check if I had holidays booked so he could request a hearing outwith those dates. So I let him know about mine and LCBs dates.
Hopefully we won’t have too long a wait.
LCB has no money to fund a further court session. But he left me no choice. My dc are the unhappiest they’ve been since all this began. DS today said he didn’t even like his dad. DD was crying about having to go this weekend. And it’s only Tuesday.

I’m off to bed to escape the shit storm sleep.
Night all

[historysock]

It's exhausting...I do feel for you x
I wonder if the man will EVER get the message and stop thinking of himself first and the kids way second...

Actually I think when they hit teenager years and possibly become a bit less cute and a lot more challenging (and begin to vote with their feet), he will rapidly knock all this on the head. It will become too much like hard work for him and teenagers are great for being terrible for the parental ego at the best of times....he's never really enjoyed the hard yards has he?

I realise this is scant relief for you now with a few years to go....(plus the flip side is you get to deal with all the teenage angst yourself too-can you tell I've had a very testing few days with dd1? )

[Mix56]

But they can legally opt out at 12 ? Not sure?

[historysock]

No but they can and do refuse to go. And short of him dragging them to the car there isn't much anyone can do.

I think in England kids are asked and their opinion given more weight to judges from the age of 10-but I might be wrong.

[onitlikeacarbonnet]

It’s taken me half the day but I think I’ve just written the best response to an email ever.

I have changed some details (though tbh at this point, if anyone I know was to read any of this, I’d be outed in minutes). Never mind.
What do you think?

...

I would ask you, once again, to exclude any personal comments from your correspondence as it makes it difficult to identify the pertinent matters and respond in a timely fashion.

I also insist that you refrain from any further attempts at emotional blackmail or gaslighting.

Regarding the holidays:

Are you taking the kids to Timbuktu?
If so, when and for how long are you taking them?

Are you allowing them to attend the bbq?
If so, in what capacity are you prepared to facilitate it?
What do you need from me to help facilitate it?
(Party invite for me, bf and dc from one of our closest friends, on an evening of his weekend. He’d originally said before the invite that he wanted to take them away, then afterwards said they could go, as I thought it was a possibility I told them, then said he might or might not allow it. Dc want to go).

There are 4 days from your original request I haven’t agreed.
I agreed to your request for a 10 day break which includes one of my weekend days.
You agreed to allow us to go for a short break which includes one of your weekend days.

My suggestion regarding ad hoc visits was to allow some flexibility for further planning but, as its unworkable at your end, I will withdraw the offer and conclude communication on the matter of the holidays.
(Pretty self explanatory. I’d suggested having some additional days might be possible at shorter notice. He seemed to take offence that I thought when he’d said he was flexible about days, he was in fact flexible about days)

As to your other comments; the facts are:

You decided to relocate an hour away.
You chose to start a family.
You requested, and the court granted your request, to cut contact on xday afternoons.
You chose to stop picking DS up from club on ydays.
You reduced your zday contact.
You stopped eating tea with them on weekdays.
You demanded a child welfare report. Until then, the dc’s were not involved.

I had no input into these decisions. Your perception that I am punishing you is incorrect. (Toyed with saying ... either narcissism or paranoia. But stopped myself)
I’m not to blame for any damage to your relationship with the dc’s.
Do you accept any responsibility for your actions and the consequences they’ve caused?

As is their right, the dc’s are informed of anything which directly affects them, their family and living situation. Their questions are answered with honesty, in an age appropriate manner. They don’t always get what they want, but they are listened to, their opinions are valued and their feelings are respected.
I take full responsibility for any actions and decisions I have made and will continue to make in the future with the same remit; I will do what I believe to be in the best interests of the dc’s.

After the changes to their established routines, their opinions have been made clear and the negative effects are proof that it is not in their best interests to continue.
You chose to deny their direct requests and the requests I’ve made on their behalf to return to the stability of that established routine; and ignored the letter sent from my solicitor.
The negative effects are exhibited by the general decline in their behaviour, which has been noted at school; their physical health with the recurrence of DS’s constipation; their mental health with the emotional outbursts by DD, most notably leading up to and during weekend handovers and by them both before and after extended stays with you at both Christmas and Easter holidays.

...

Rip it to shreds if need be because I want it to hit him right in the bollocks without having anything he can jump on.

Bedtime now mn angels
Night night x

[mogglemoo]

Onit,

I normally lurk, and have done from the beginning of your story. I’m sure others will be much better than I at formulating a ‘kiss ass’ reply, but a few things stood out:

1. They don’t always get what they want, but they are listened to, their opinions are valued and their feelings are respected. This could read like everyone affords your children this courtesy- him included. This is obviously not the case, and you may want to emphasise that it is you that respects them, listens to them etc.
   

1. I wonder whether it is a bit long and you are giving him too many opportunities to open dialogue- which we know will be all about him and his needs, while attacking you- which is of no benefit, either to you or the children, especially as you are feeling low at the moment.
   

1. I would also change I’m not to blame for any damage to your relationship with the dc’s. to You are solely responsible for your relationship with the children. and is there any point in asking him the sentence that follows? Again, there is no way he’s going to come back and accept that he’s the one causing all the distress with his wanky demands.
   

1. I do really like the final paragraph. It’s strong, and the only thing I would add is something about not meeting the children’s needs or their emotional and/or physical well-being.
   

Please stay strong, you are an amazing woman.

💐

I’ll go back to cheering you on from the sidelines. Hope you don’t mind me posting.

[caringdenise009]

While your email is well written onit, you are barking at the wrong dog when you ask him to be reasonable I'm afraid, and I think you are handing him ammunition. By asking him not to make personal remarks etc, and telling him they make things difficult for you you are telling him what it is he does that upsets you, and you must know that he likes doing that. If I were you I would ignore, ignore and ignore again the irrelevant bilge parts. Maybe print out the emails and cross out every irrelevant word, and only address what's left. Take out the bits about him ignoring and you listening and just state clearly that it is in the children's best interest to be listened to and respected, that when they are not it results in the outbursts, decline in health etc. He will take this as a further engagement in a battle, and he will fire back, and he will see himself as the victim who has to defend himself.

He is never going to get it, even if you send him 10000000000 well written reasonable emails. You should try to use that as your starting point rather than trying to get him to be the father you think your children deserve. He is the father they've got, and he's not going to have an epiphany and start being a good one.

[Mix56]

Are you taking the kids to Timbuktu? I need the dates


What is happening re BBQ? The DC want to go
What do you need from me to help facilitate it?

There are 4 days from your original request I haven’t agreed.
I agreed to your request for a 10 day break which includes one of my weekend days.
You agreed to allow us to go for a short break which includes one of your weekend days.

My suggestion regarding flexibility facilitate ad hoc occasionsf but, as its unworkable at your end, I will withdraw the offer and conclude communication on the matter of the holidays.

Please recall that actual facts:

You decided to relocate an hour away.
You chose to start a new family.
You requested, and the court granted your request, to cut contact on xday afternoons.
You chose to stop picking DS up from club on ydays.
You reduced your zday contact.
You stopped eating tea with them on weekdays.
You demanded a child welfare report. Until then, the dc’s were not involved.
I had no input into these decisions. Your accusation that I am punishing you is incorrect.
I’m not to blame for any damage to your relationship with the dc’s.
or your actions and the consequences they’ve caused

As is their right, the dc’s are informed of anything which directly affects them, their family and living situation. Their questions are answered with honesty, in an age appropriate manner. They don’t always get what they want, but they are listened to, their opinions are valued and their feelings are respected.
I take full responsibility for any actions and decisions I have made and will continue to make in the future with the same remit; I will do what I believe to be in the best interests of the dc’s.

After your changes to their established routines, their opinions have been made clear and the negative effects are proof that it is making them unhappy
You deny their direct requests and the requests I’ve made on their behalf to return to the stability of that established routine; and ignored the letter sent from my solicitor.
There is a general decline in their behaviour, which has been noted at school; their physical health with the recurrence of DS’s constipation; their mental health with the emotional outbursts by DD, most notably leading up to and during weekend handovers and by them both before and after the w/es & extended stays with you

Still too long, but less wordy ?

[MsPavlichenko]

I know I sound harsh but that reply ( reasonable as it is) just continues the dynamic of his control and sllows him a come back. You have spent hours on it I suspect. Hours he is inside your head again.

Explaining it all to him will change nothing. He will not change or accept responsibility. He may try to use it against you.

A short email asking dates etc would be better. He'll agree or he won't. You can do the same. Communicating like this is another way of him continuing the controlling dyamic of your relationship.He won't stop but you can.