Do you think this is normal for a family in a rural region in the 90s?

[Moralitym1n1]

(it has actually continued into the '00s as well)

• females (not sure about males) don't have sex before marriage

• females (as above not sure about males) have a curfew while single and while dating. (Weekend curfew later than weekday one).

• all live at home until married

• if females (no idea about males) go on trip with boyfriend before married, separate rooms and chaperon eg brother goes on trip as well (shares room with bf)

• all females except one becomes house wife after marriage (the one exception actually works in same place as husband)

• large families (4 min.) after marriage

• regular church attendance

• (before marriage) females encouraged to participate in beauty pageants and similar 'lovely girl' competitions

• no artificial contraception (except barrier methods at risky times alongside NFP)

• no separate socialising from partner (both males and females)

• almost exclusively family socialising (both)

• discouragement from drinking alcohol (both but females more than males)

• both males and females strongly encouraged to study and work close to home (as above only one female cont'd to work after marriage.

I don't think this was average/normal in the 90s but am being told it was.

Moralitym1n1 not in the least in my case, my family were not religious at all. They were just very old fashioned in their views.

No - although going to church was a thing (not my dad, but my mum took us) it was all about being seen to be respectable.

So - no late nights, no drinking (a little was allowed) to excess, had to get high grades, we lied about my sister living with her fiance when she was 23! No women in the family worked ft after having kids - not respectable!

Both my parents were brought up in very strict 1940s/1950s boarding schools, and they were actually quite lenient towards us by comparison. BUT - being respectable was almost a religion of its own.

They still decide whether to have a drink by whether it's the 'correct' time for morning coffee/afternoon tea, not by if they feel thirsty, because rules are so rigid for them. My mother is still shocked that I don't cook meals for DH if I'm going out for the eve.

It's like Hyacinth Bucket, with less humour.

Respectability suffocated everything where I grew up.
Everyone lied about everything. We perfected double think/talk. But the things that went on!.
The things people did are shocking and details Just keep appearing that knock the make the mind boggle.
Living there felt lime a totalitarian state and coming to London felt like being liberated, physically, mentally and sexually.

Respectability suffocated everything where I grew up.
Everyone lied about everything. We perfected double think/talk.

Yes that is how things are where I live. Appearances are everything. The number of people at funerals, but who didn’t even like the person or they were an abusive alcoholic. Lots of affairs, sex, but little acceptance of relationships, close families hiding secrets. Women outwardly encouraged in education, however no good childcare or support to work beyond marriage. A bit rotten if you ask me.

YES! That’s EXACTLY it! It’s like a higher state of perfection! ‘Lawyer barbie’! And then that rolls on to being like ‘yes, you’re a professional woman, but do you have a beautiful home/perfectly dressed clean children/always around for random school early pickups/host a lot in your beautiful home’. Basically all the things that a stay at home parent would do, but with a job as well.

All my aunt's were teachers. 6 kids a piece. My uncle was a teacher too. They lived like sleepwalkers..but he went I to local government and had lots of time for golf as did their own husbands.
Their lives were unrelenting toil and later caring for elderly parents too.
The profound injustice of it. They worked whilst the males had careers.
When I say worked....like farm animals. All retired early with physical problems and mental health but we're an entirely respectable, well thought of family but the toll it took is horrific.

If I could mention Ann Lovett at this point as just an illustration of Ireland in the 80s. Her death and life say it all.
Everything was hushed up afterwards too. The town still shut down at the mention of her name and resent it all as a smear on its good name..rather than the meaningless death of 2 children being a bit more important

I think there are still people with these attitudes, albeit a small minority. An old school friend of mine was approved to adopt and got a newborn who was relinquished by the mother as she was unmarried and apparently had to keep the pregnancy secret from the local community. This was only about 10 years ago.

Yes @evaperon I have a friend here who recently admitted to me she’d had to give up a baby for adoption 20 years ago, she was 20. Her parents still don’t know. Only a handful do. It was under pressure from her bf who was from a respected family, who still don’t know. She went through hell and developed many problems for a while. She could not have an abortion, and the fallout if she’d kept the child, as was her wish, would have been dreadful.

So whilst I think times are changing in one way - sex outside marriage is widespread in Ireland, and my friend was normal amongst her peers, the attitudes are still there, so when she fell pregnant, different story.

My dh family aren't from rural Ireland, from a big city. None of those things sound normal to me. I have niece mid twenties and her mum wasn't married and still isn't. So definitely not normal. But at the same time the last magdalen homes only closed in the 1990s.....I think maybe Sinead O'Connor was in there in the 1990s. I guess not everything changed instantaneously overnight!

But I would say four children is not unusual at all anywhere in the republic.....there's lots of people I know with 4. That's through choice though.

I'm mid 30's and this was how I was brought up. I'm single still and "not allowed" to live with a man/have sex/go on holiday alone before marriage etc. No contraception allowed. Looks/presentation extremely important. Probably seen as damaged goods because I'm unmarried and 35 so my only job now should be, and has been, to care for ageing family members. Family are half Irish Catholic and half Asian Muslim.

I think this is normal for religious families.

@ShadyLady53

Excuse my colourful language but fk that; do what you want to do and either have minimal contact with them or lie.

35 is still young.

If get far away from them; work abroad for a while, meet people through hobbies, ex pat stuff etc.

They have their lives, they don't get yours as well.

I'd

It's easier said than done though. I love my family and I believe in God. I've got loads of hobbies, a good career, have travelled extensively with family members but have no desire at all to live abroad. I can't lie there is resentment there but only really because I'm single and 35. Luckily, my family agreed to let me live alone eventually but only so I'd be used to living alone when they eventually pass away.

My cousins and religious friends are all happily married with children. That's all I really wanted too and I would have been happy to have married young and have had a large family and not use contraception other than NFP. I know it's not exactly the kind of thing that you admit to on Mumsnet lol but I would have been quite happy with that kind of life. I longed to be a wife and mother more than anything really. Although, I'd always want to have some financial independence and a running away fund!

I know it all sounds crazy but I promise if you'd met me in real life you'd think I was totally normal. I've got lots of very liberal friends who were raised very differently to me.

Shady I have a friend who is British/Asian (Muslim) raised similarly and who couldn't get married as her father was terminally ill and her mum wanted her to stay at home and help her care for him. She just got married at 38 and is very happy, I hope your day will come too

I've been thinking about my own family (half Irish catholic, half English protestant) and the Catholic ones are actually a lot more lax about sex/pregnancy before marriage and 'living in sin' than the Prods. I have a friend who is from a Baptist family and after a very short abusive marriage got divorced at the age of 21. Her family expected her to remain a spinster as apparently remarriage is against Biblical teachings. She did remarry but could not to back to her family church due to her sin

But I would say four children is not unusual at all anywhere in the republic.....there's lots of people I know with 4. That's through choice though. I would say many culturally oppressive practices are ‘choice’, but it’s not a choice where there is acceptance and models of alternatives. In Ireland where I live the girls don’t look up and see a mix of big / small families, women who work, women who don’t. They see most women sahm with 4+ children. So that’s what they do...
Shadylady too... I would have been happy to have married young and have had a large family and not use contraception other than NFP

Lack of choice is powerful, and it’s most powerful through the norms and expectations. It doesn’t have to be an overtly forced choice.

I know as I don’t have 4+ kids and had a good career, people, male and female, don’t like it where I live. I’m treated as if I’ve stepped out of line.

I thought Irish as well. I don't think it was that unusual in parts of ROI in that time. I had family a bit like that, for sure.

*It's easier said than done though. I love my family and I believe in God. I've got loads of hobbies, a good career, have travelled extensively with family members but have no desire at all to live abroad. I can't lie there is resentment there but only really because I'm single and 35. Luckily, my family agreed to let me live alone eventually but only so I'd be used to living alone when they eventually pass away.

My cousins and religious friends are all happily married with children. That's all I really wanted too and I would have been happy to have married young and have had a large family and not use contraception other than NFP. I know it's not exactly the kind of thing that you admit to on Mumsnet lol but I would have been quite happy with that kind of life. I longed to be a wife and mother more than anything really. Although, I'd always want to have some financial independence and a running away fund!

I know it all sounds crazy but I promise if you'd met me in real life you'd think I was totally normal. I've got lots of very liberal friends who were raised very differently to me.*

Shady I know your family are probably nice people/good people in many ways but your post still disturbs me. You sound so much under their control, even living separately from them

It doesn't sound healthy or fair.

38 is not too old to meet a partner and have children; everything you say sounds like a partner and family is a past goal, is over .. it's not!

I had my first child at 41, and I've met lots of other late 39s, early 40s mothers. Even if you don't have children (which you must certainly can still physically do for several more years, longer with donor eggs should you wish to go that route) you can still meet a partner and be married.
I know women who've met their husbands 'later', done too late for kids unfortunately (in her 50s) but are nonetheless happy in their marriages and delighted to have a partner in life to travel with, socialise with, be part of wider family life in both sides etc.

You speak as if it's over for you, done and dusted, and that makes me v frustrated.

*late 30s

Luckily, my family agreed to let me live alone eventually but only so I'd be used to living alone when they eventually pass away.

No offence whatsoever but you didn't need their permission or agreement to live separately!! You has the right to live separately from them from the the age of 16!!! (Not that I'd recommend people living outside home at that age unless their family are abusive/problematic but you get my point). This is presuming you're living in the UK.

Your love your family and belief in God - why should either of those things be incompatible with having your own life of meeting someone in the bear future to get married to and have kids, if it works out?!

I know it's not exactly the kind of thing that you admit to on Mumsnet lol but I would have been quite happy with that kind of life.

I can't speak for other MNers but I thought the whole basis if feminism was choice and support. I can 100% understand someone wanting to do that; if it's what they want to do and they're happy, I'm happy.

Although, I'd always want to have some financial independence and a running away fund!

We can do everything we can to try to pick a good partner but yes, a bit if financial independence or at the very least having an idea if what to do and how to do it if it does turn out badly is necessary.

have travelled extensively with family members

Not the same as travelling alone or with friends. However I understand why someone might not want to.

(Just as I fully understand not wanting to live abroad, even for a stint - I only suggested it as way to get out from under your family's thumb for a while).

I'm single still and "not allowed" to live with a man/have sex/go on holiday alone before marriage etc. No contraception allowed.

If you're a practising Muslim, us it possible for you to meet a partner through (moderate!) Muslim dating/introduction/cultural organisations. Presumably he would subscribe to the same 'rules' and be fully in board with no living together/holidaying/sex before marriage.

I think it would have been very typical of rural Donegal. My grandma came from Donegal, and we have family there in Inishowen. Very very rural. Absolutely typical of that kind of community. Nothing 'cultish' about it at all- just how it was. It is not as restrictive now but elements of that still exist- the 'Rose of....' events are common across Ireland still although certainly many people don't like them, lots still do.
My cousin has a farm in Donegal, near Ramelton and his wife is from Fanad. Their life is not as you describe but there are elements of it I am still surprised by in its 'old-fashionedness'.