Do you think this is normal for a family in a rural region in the 90s?

[Moralitym1n1]

(it has actually continued into the '00s as well)

• females (not sure about males) don't have sex before marriage

• females (as above not sure about males) have a curfew while single and while dating. (Weekend curfew later than weekday one).

• all live at home until married

• if females (no idea about males) go on trip with boyfriend before married, separate rooms and chaperon eg brother goes on trip as well (shares room with bf)

• all females except one becomes house wife after marriage (the one exception actually works in same place as husband)

• large families (4 min.) after marriage

• regular church attendance

• (before marriage) females encouraged to participate in beauty pageants and similar 'lovely girl' competitions

• no artificial contraception (except barrier methods at risky times alongside NFP)

• no separate socialising from partner (both males and females)

• almost exclusively family socialising (both)

• discouragement from drinking alcohol (both but females more than males)

• both males and females strongly encouraged to study and work close to home (as above only one female cont'd to work after marriage.

I don't think this was average/normal in the 90s but am being told it was.

*of

I get the impression they consider their faith and culture to be instrumental in their success, I know similar people on the protestant 'side' here, Methodists, freemasons etc whose business approach, work ethic, success etc. seems to be wrapped up in their religious beliefs and lifestyle.

- (before marriage) females encouraged to participate in beauty pageants and similar 'lovely girl' competitions No No No... absolutely not, and this would mark a family out as weird

I found it outdated and cringy, but there are evidently enough other entrants for these to continue

I think a lot of it wasn't unusual. It wasn't normal either, especially for all those traits to be in one family.

Any family with these traits would be known for being like that, but it wouldnt be so odd it'd raise concern. (Unless it was a religious community - rare enough, but still about today - where it could be the expectation.)

Some of the traits separately would considered the norm. The two that would have been almost unique were the chaperones and all the girls 'encoraged' into beauty pagents.

- females (not sure about males) don't have sex before marriage no

- females (as above not sure about males) have a curfew while single and while dating. (Weekend curfew later than weekday one). I did, yes, but not beyond being 19/20

- all live at home until married no, but not uncommon to do so

- if females (no idea about males) go on trip with boyfriend before married, separate rooms and chaperon eg brother goes on trip as well (shares room with bf) not anymore, my parents had to have separate rooms though in late 1980s Ireland, my mum shared a room with my gran on a straw mattress and my dad shared with my grandad (both his parents). When I went to Poland with dp's family and was allowed to share a bed my mother was shocked

- all females except one becomes house wife after marriage (the one exception actually works in same place as husband) all of my aunts are housewives, my mum is sort of one (part-time work from home)

- large families (4 min.) after marriage not anymore, pre-1980s yes. Though I am one of 4 born in 90s/00s

- regular church attendance we stopped regular church attendance in ~2006

- (before marriage) females encouraged to participate in beauty pageants and similar 'lovely girl' competitions no but my cousin did enter Rose of Tralee

- no artificial contraception (except barrier methods at risky times alongside NFP) never discussed though obviously used by almost all aunts/uncles who only had children in 30s - my dad was the youngest of them to become a father at 27

- no separate socialising from partner (both males and females) yes

- almost exclusively family socialising (both) yes but I stay away

- discouragement from drinking alcohol (both but females more than males) sort of, my grandmother doesn't drink and dad didn't til 30s, the rest of them do nothing but (except my uncle, a recovering alcoholic)

- both males and females strongly encouraged to study and work close to home (as above only one female cont'd to work after marriage. yes, but I left for the other side of the world

My family are an NI immigrant family so I didn't grow up in Ireland (as you can tell from the name) but lots of these ring true. I have an EXTREMELY religious family, one of my parents' cousins started a horrendous rumour when I was a teen that I had had an abortion in the hospital she worked at (I was 16/17 at the time and it was completely untrue but also none of her business if I had). She also claimed neither of her daughters had sex until their mid 20s as if it was something to be proud of. The world moved on, her DD1 is divorced and DD2 got married while pregnant. Who cares? This guy sounds like a dick, you're better off without him

You know what really stands out. You know all about how the girls and women did, or should, behave. Yet you specifically state not knowing the expectations of the males in his family. Says all you need to know about him i think.

I grew up on the east coast of Ireland and was a teen throughout the 90s. None of those points sound familiar to me except the no sex before marriage. That was what we were all told but most parents just turned a blind eye to the fact. I.e. they knew they couldn't stop you from being sexually active but as long as they didn't know about it (So no boyfriends staying over, no being brought to get the pill, no talking about contraceptive.)

My parents were unusual in that they weren't at all religious so we didn't go to mass. But most of my friends had to go until they were 18.

And we all moved out of home when we started working/went to college.

I think a lot changed between the start and the end of the 90s though. My DH had a brother who was 10 years older and he wasn't allowed go on a holiday he had won with his fiancee in case they shared a bed By the time I came along they had relaxed their views and the two of us had plenty of weekends away and lived together before marriage in the 00s.

So what you're describing OP I would think was more typical of 1980s/early 90s Ireland though maybe it lingered on longer in rural areas. His family do sound very religious though, their attitude sounds more like my grandparents generation who would have been in their 20s during the 1950s.

You know what really stands out. You know all about how the girls and women did, or should, behave. Yet you specifically state not knowing the expectations of the males in his family. Says all you need to know about him i think.

Yes, I think so too.

It also reminds me of wider social and religious norms where everyone (male and female) is supposed to act a certain way, yet in practice all the rules and restrictions somehow seem to end up being applied to the females ... It's their behaviour that's under scrutiny and control.

At the extreme end makes me think of the ME, where I lived briefly and where all devout Muslims are supposed to not drink and not have sex outside marriage; but many men do both (on trips abroad or in 5 star hotels, often wearing western clothing) while the unmarried women are mostly preventing in every possible way from doing either. They even hire female drivers to ferry them around so they won't be in a car with an unrelated male.

*prevented

I think a lot changed between the start and the end of the 90s though.

I agree, during that period even in my moderate protestant household my parents went from an official stance if not being ok with us living with a partner before marriage, to accepting it as long as it was not under their roof ie no staying/sleeping together unmarried in their house.

My eldest sister used to pretend she wasn't living with her partner before marriage (easier because in Scotland, not northern Ireland); I went through no such subterfuge.

one of my parents' cousins started a horrendous rumour when I was a teen that I had had an abortion in the hospital she worked at (I was 16/17 at the time and it was completely untrue but also none of her business if I had).

What an absolute c**t.

I grew up in the 70s & 80s in SE England. More than half of those 'rules' were things my parents tried to endorse, up until I was old enough to leave home after college. Even then, they more than happily passed judgement on behaviour that didn't fit within those rules.

But then, I realized long ago that my parents are deeply dysfunctional.

2014. My friend desperately in love with a Jewish man, he blew hot and cold because of his family expectations. They were not even devout just rich, he is expected to marry a nice Jewish girl. For four years this went on they lived together for a time, then he said she had to leave, until she finally had enough and blocked his phone number. She then met a lovely guy fell in love, got engaged, then married. Her former boyfriend then starting bombarding her with all sorts. She knew he did love her but must marry into his faith. It is such a sad doomed love story.

I did as a child raised loosely as a catholic find it amusing that I was supposed to keep myself naice for the right man only succumbing on my wedding night.

Just thinking about how being a Former Miss Northern Ireland is seen as a really good, laudable thing in NI... it really sets you up for life! In the professional world in England where I worked it would have been seen as very tacky and downmarket, nothing you'd ever do, but even in deep North Down people are like 'she's a former Miss Northern Ireland you know!'

What is it with the north of ireland and weird 'lovely girl contests'??!

A lot of what you have said has really resonated with me about having to be seen as 'perfect wife and mother'...

Nope most definitely not normal

It sounds a bit like the Duggar family.

@Harumphharagh

Absolutely true - maybe we're still just (on average) a bit too parochial and unsophisticated. The contests are still going on in the Republic too; however politically they seem to be evolving, with some truly (to me) surprising law changes, while in NI the traditional, religious elements of society can still be strongly seen in politics etc.

Having returned here relatively recently from England, I have to say the traditional Catholic and Protestant (usually Presbyterian, Methodist etc) culture has struck me. On the protestant front I'm suspecting the religious zealots who wanted power and independence left Scotland for northern Ireland to achieve that.

The other thing I've noticed on the pageant type competitions is that professional women) or students studying towards the professions quite often take part and they are lapped up; it's like the new, improved Barbie - doctor, lawyer Barbie .

Their families are so proud that they're high achievers and professionals as well as the a important prettiness & femininity.

*all important

Other than going to church and beauty pageants, that pretty much describes my childhood in the 80s in rural England. However I have since learnt that my parents were unusual in bringing me up in such a restricted way!

(plus the organisers can say their competition is still valid, look at all the lovely professional, career 'girls' taking part.

@KickAssAngel and Eggysmom

Was it due to religious beliefs?