Do you think this is normal for a family in a rural region in the 90s?

[Moralitym1n1]

(it has actually continued into the '00s as well)

• females (not sure about males) don't have sex before marriage

• females (as above not sure about males) have a curfew while single and while dating. (Weekend curfew later than weekday one).

• all live at home until married

• if females (no idea about males) go on trip with boyfriend before married, separate rooms and chaperon eg brother goes on trip as well (shares room with bf)

• all females except one becomes house wife after marriage (the one exception actually works in same place as husband)

• large families (4 min.) after marriage

• regular church attendance

• (before marriage) females encouraged to participate in beauty pageants and similar 'lovely girl' competitions

• no artificial contraception (except barrier methods at risky times alongside NFP)

• no separate socialising from partner (both males and females)

• almost exclusively family socialising (both)

• discouragement from drinking alcohol (both but females more than males)

• both males and females strongly encouraged to study and work close to home (as above only one female cont'd to work after marriage.

I don't think this was average/normal in the 90s but am being told it was.

This thread has been almost comical in terms of the initial "religious sect"/"us Bible belt" responses from (presumably) English posters, and then the "yes, common/normal to some extent" responses from Irish and northern Irish people.

I suppose we really are (still) a weird enclave affected by the iron grip of the Catholic church and the religious zealousness of Ulster Scot settlers.

In any case I found I was being judged by, and pressured to be like, these 'standards' and if made for an increasingly stressful, unworkable relationship (one that had seemed to have huge potential at the beginning) that I'm still trying to process.

There is nothing more morally abhorrent to me than a judgemental man imposing outdated patriarchal beliefs on a woman.

All of those things are almost the exact opposite to my experience of being a teenager in the 90s, and that of pretty much anyone my age. At university I knew it quite a few Irish girls (from both sides of the border) who would not have taken kindly to suggestions they led their lives in this way.

It sounds like you had a lucky escape OP.

I'd say it's not as unusual as you'd think. I still know women who aren't allowed to drive or handle money. And that's in N Ireland, not Saudi Arabia...

@jennifer

Yes, and if we'd stayed together long term, i'd have wanted to have kids; discussing this with other people has confirmed my worry that they'd have been used to trap and control me. Everyone would have been "a good mother would never do ..," instead of " a decent girl would never do ..".

*Everything

I read your OP and immediately thought of friends of my cousins in Donegal, when I used to visit in the late 80s. My Irish family were considered very liberal and even some of them still married from home and refused to drink underage. What you described was not unusual for many of their friends and neighbours.
The locals thought I was a wild child because I hadn't signed the pledge, was living away from home at 17 and was at university planning a future career.

I've name changed for this.
I'm married to the son of farmers from Cumbria. He's the eldest of several boys but went away to uni, moved out of the area and does not farm.
Quite a bit of the stuff on the list applies to his family. The not living together before marriage, men doing literally no housework, and minimal childcare (both my BILS very proud of never having changed a nappy), church goers. Very strong views on how women should/shouldn't behave. Told by my MIL many years ago that I shouldn't dye my hair (took no notice, obviously). Very insular community. Things I would say have moved on slightly since we met (late 90s) but not all that much.

So I'm not all that surprised by what I've read...

Interesting to hear there are some places in England like this too (though perhaps religious beliefs are core).

I was born in Ireland in the 60s and every one of my large family went away from home to university. We were encouraged to go..could say practically made..but we wanted to. None of us lived at home before marriage but lived in various flatshares/ abroad etc. All my friends were the same. We all travelled widely before marriage sometimes with bf/gf , sometimes with friends.
And we all kept our careers going after marriage. It wasn't even an issue in any way. This was way before the 90s. My dps were country Catholics as were all my friends parents.
This stereotyping of the Irish families is completely off. You know by the 90s much more Irish kids were at 3rd level than in UK. The Irish are notorious for travelling.
Op your guy obviously came from that kind of area but for people to come up with stuff about the whole of Ireland is rubbish.

Just to add all our DJhs plus my Dbs did loads of housework, childcare as did my own df in the 60s. We all dyed our hair, wore mini skirts, went to Greek islands for whole Summers etc. You cannot generalise about a whole area. Individual families might be like this but not whole communities.

It was his normal, it wasn’t yours and there in lies the incompatibility. The whole point of dating is to find out if you’re compatible with someone, it isn’t to change or educate them. He’s entitled to his beliefs just as you are, the mistake was to think that either of you had a right/ responsibility to change the other.

It's good to hear some alternative views - I don't/didn't think it was average, even for rural families, in the 80s, 90s etc. Some of the comments were making me think "oh, it's a lot more common than I thought and I was wrong".

@AgentJohnson

That's the standard line we tell people and ourselves about views/principles/'rules' and certainly - in relationships - you can simply end it (which regardless of the while dating, trying each other on for fit approach) is almost inevitably disappointing, hurtful/painful, stressful etc. (By the time youve discovered incompatibilities, you've usually been seeing each other a while, are established as s couple to family and friends, are sleeping together etc.) ... But ultimately in a wider sense (for example laws) you can't perpetually take the view "our views just aren't compatible", you have to take a stand and decide that you find their views unreasonable, that they infringement on liberties and rights etc. We do that about policies and laws a the time.

Perhaps I'm being very judgemental and pedantic but I'm not going to conclude the relationship broke down because we're just incompatible, I'm going to conclude that he and his wider family hold views that are archaic, extremely conservative etc and that this mostly focuses on controlling females to achieve a chauvinistic ideal of womanhood and motherhood with chastity & 'respectability' centre stage.

*whole

We go for this approach so much that there are posters on here saying 'maybe it's a personality conflict' about a partner who is v obviously abusing them.

The views above were leading to what wouldn't be exaggerating to call abuse for me - emotional abuse anyway. I'm not going to rationalise it as incompatibility because to me it's not; he's wrong, his views are negative & chauvinistic and it results in controlling and emotionally abusive behaviour.

But ultimately in a wider sense (for example laws) you can't perpetually take the view "our views just aren't compatible", you have to take a stand and decide that you find their views unreasonable,

Yes, you do that by leaving! Trying to ‘understand/ challenge/ educate’ them is bs. That’s the excuse you tell yourself to stay in a relationship that doesn’t add positive value to your life. I can change him!!!

Perhaps I'm being very judgemental and pedantic but I'm not going to conclude the relationship broke down because we're just incompatible, I'm going to conclude that he and his wider family hold views that are archaic, extremely conservative etc and that this mostly focuses on controlling females to achieve a chauvinistic ideal of womanhood

I am in rural Ireland and trying to separate with a child and it is hellish, because if many of the reasons you’ve outlined above. ExDP is not outwardly chauvenitistic or traditional at all, not churchy, not prudish, and yet there are underlying misogynistic and controlling attitudes in my community that are very murky.

I am ostracised by his female who want me out of the house and label me bossy because I’ve dared to stand up for myself/be different. So, I agree with you. Some cultures hold on to dodgy views involving power imbalances, and it’s not immediately evident and nor is it an incompatibility issue.

Apologies... spelling

Should say by his female ILs... I’ve found here it’s the women being the most oppressive ones to other women! I’m not saying this is true either of all ireland, however it’s very much part of where I am and it’s under the surface.

Yes, you do that by leaving! Trying to ‘understand/ challenge/ educate’ them is bs. That’s the excuse you tell yourself to stay in a relationship that doesn’t add positive value to your life. I can change him!!!

I think you've picked me up wrong - I'm not saying "don't end the relationship" - I'm saying I don't agree with the interpretation that the relationship ended because your views are 'just' incompatible; that strongly implies that both views are equally valid.

I'd rather say straight "these people are sexist, chauvinist, archaic, controlling (esp. of women) etc. And no one with reasonable awareness who wants a decent relationship could stay with them.

I just dont like the "incompatible" views/lifestyles 'no fault' thing; I think *that" is actually more likely to make someone think the other person is not toxic and try to work things out

I agree I think it’s important to get a handle on why you left. If you just thought it was incompatibility then you might make the same mistake again or think you are wrong or just different for not going along with the family line. You are not just different, you are aware of power imbalances and oppression, and that’s a good thing.

Why does there have to be fault? I do not understand the self righteousness. There’s a reason irreconcilable differences is the most often used reason cited to end a marriage.

I thought of someone from a very strict but very successful form of Presbyterianism in NI as soon as I read this. Definitely people alive and well in this country from both sides with these views.

@orangecookie

That's really stressful, sorry to hear that.

Unfortunately for various reasons women have always seemed to and continue to oppress other women.

In rural Ireland there seems to such clannishness and clique-nesd among extended families that I can imagine that you quickly become 'not one of us' and the enemy if you separate from their relative - they would automatically take his side, even if that wasn't fair.
You're probably expected to complain in a stoical, dry, minimal way ("aw men, you know what they're like") about his behaviour like the other woman and not actually do anything about it or rock the boat or you'd be considered getting way above yourself etc.