To think there's no coming back from this...

[GirlOnIt]

Me and Dp has a argument last night (well early hours of the morning). He wasn't happy with my friends staying over (I've posted about this) and he travelled back from working away so was very tired. But he got in and basically started having a go at me, pretty horrible things said and I honestly didn't know what to do. I was in bed, and just sat there as he ranted at me. He woke Ds up and he started crying, he picked him but he wouldn't settle so he handed him to me and that's when he stopped. Then just got into bed and went to sleep. He woke up first in the morning and was banging around downstairs my friends had obviously heard us row, so they made their excuses and left sharpish. Female friend asked before going if I was ok and if I wanted her to take Ds for a bit. He heard her ask and basically told her to fuck off.

Then he got ready and left. Wouldn't say where or anything "it's none of my fucking business what he does" apparently. Nothing from him all day and I've tried a few times to get in touch. I text him to say not to come home at all and he replied 'are you forgetting who pays the mortgage babe, I'll be back when I want'.

I don't know if I'm being precious, I've never ever been shouted and sworn at like that and just kinda froze. I'm crying thinking about it now and can think of all kinds of things I'd say back. But we've never rowed like that before and I just didn't say or do anything.

I'm not sure if he's coming home, I don't want him. I'm not sure if I'm best going to my mums or asking her to come here. He'd originally made plans with his friends to do watch a match and I'm guessing that's what he's done, although I had plans that have been scraped. That means he'll be drinking though and I don't think there's going to be any point talking to him. I'm not sure I ever want to if I'm honest.

Sorry, OP, I don't normally do an advanced search but you referred to another thread so I had a quick look through your other titles.

It looks like you've been having problems since your baby came along.
He hasn't given you and the baby adequate support.
He's been off escaping with his friends.
He's got angry about you having friends round. Bearing in mind your friends live a long way away and you're breastfeeding and looking after a baby so aren't exactly available for weekends away with them yet, he should be pleased that you still have a social life. Instead he called you a slag and a bitch and and ruined it for you.
And as you say, the fact there was no apology the next morning isn't a good sign. He just played the big shot about the mortgage and asked if you'd washed his clothes. Perhaps you being at home raising his child while he works is bringing out a nasty bullying streak in him.

Maybe you can work through it, but he needs to know that his behaviour has been completely unacceptable and that he's going to have to put a lot of effort into fixing it. Don't let him back home for a while, and if you do decide to let him back, ask him what he plans to do to make sure he never shouts at you like that again, and how he's going to ensure that you don't feel abandoned in the house with the baby. He needs to see how shit his behaviour has been and think about how he's going to fix it.

I'm hoping it's something that we can work on and will look into counselling, to see if that might help.

He'll be staying away from home for a good few weeks and I've made it clear that, that's not to be a few weeks of him going out every night living the single life or he won't be coming back at all.
I think I'll only really know by giving him a chance and I feel like I owe our former relationship and Ds having both parents a chance. I've no doubt if he displays any of the behaviour or attitude I had over the weekend again, that is the end though and he knows it.

He's not a horrible guy, he can be the most lovely partner and has been for four years, when he's not being a idiot he's really good with Ds and he does his fair share of the house work even since I've been on mat leave.

If you decide to give it another go I’d suggest you give it a week or two and then invite both your friends round to stay again. That will tell you a lot about how he really feels .

WhoKnewBeefStew that has to be the most stupid idea on this thread.

Op a private counsellor is around £50 an hour, and we had around 6, 1 hour sessions. We spend a lot on eating out, and holidays, but there seems to be quite a lot of cynicism around spending money on counselling, particularly where relationships are concerned. It really was the best thing we did, and we are not averse to going back for more if we hit a sticky patch. Relationships are not plain sailing the whole way. There are rough seas, and periods where there is no wind at all. If a partner fucks up rather than dump them, use it to improve the long term relationship. So many people on here say dump him, without taking a breath. I'm very pleased I didn't dump mine. Good luck Op whatever you do.

Unfortunately my male friend lives quite far away Who. Will probably be summer before I see him again. Don't think Dp would have a problem with my female friends staying anyway.

Had lunch with my mum and grandma today so had a good moan about him. They are both of the opinion I should just get rid! They're both quite no nonsense women.

I do think we'll look into counselling Jon. Seen as he's such a big man earning all the money, he can pay for it!

I would caution re the counselling. Before you do anything with him. he needs to look at his own behaviour and consider counselling himself. I know the Freedom Programme ( which you should do, it should be compulsory imo!) work with men too. It means him owning and challenging his ideas and behaviour. Remember this isn't a relationship issue as such, it is an issue brought about by the abusive way he behaved. Also, as I know, abusive men can be lovely some, or even most of the time. Otherwise we wouldn't get with them in the first place.

Last of all, I think it is telling what both your DM and DG are saying. I'm not saying LTB, but it is worth really thinking about what they are saying about your situation.

Did you find that 6 sessions was enough @Jon65? And how did you find someone, if you don't mind answering that. He's saying he'd go and he thinks it's a good idea.

For four years though MsPav. He's never moaned about me going out with friends or on girls holidays, never been jealous or possessive, never really shouted at me, never sworn. Before Ds he was pretty perfect as far as boyfriends go.

Girlonit, the thing is for almost all of the 4 years you didn’t have a child. Now you do and it redefines your lives. Like most woman you are sort of stuck, happily so in most cases, with the limitations and changes to your life. But I dare say that if you weren’t as tied to the baby you would recognise the need to change your life and your boundaries. Like most adults do, give and take the odd spat and indiscretion ( guilty of hangover at kids 5th birthday party).

I hazard that your DP hasn’t and for the most part you have had to tell him what he should be doing. He resents that and is angry at being told what to do or not to do. So he tried to get back at you by telling you what to do and not to do. In doing so he assumed the mantel of a drunken Victorian patriarch or possibly Fred Waterford.

I would ask your DP what he thinks he should be doing differently now he has a son and why. Let him say what he thinks your role is and why. It really shouldn’t be that difficult to see what it is or should be.
Assuming he vaguely gets close to what is acceptable in 21c, then ask him if that’s the life he wants to live and one that he can commit to.

I hazard again that although he loves you and his son, he doesn’t like life as a parent so far. To give him his due, for a lot of people it a struggle to let go of the freedom you had before. But he has to make that choice. There’s no point in you telling him what he should or shouldn’t be doing for the next 18 years and getting a kickback of resentment and anger.

He has met this challenge and gift in life badly so far. It shows moral weakness on his part along with quite childish and nasty behaviour at the very least. As others say, there is a risk his behaviour will continue and escalate.

This is his crossroad and one he cannot avoid. You have made your choice to be a parent as well as a loving partner. But whilst the first is unconditional the second isn’t.

To echo what @MsPavlichenko couples counselling isn't recommended in domestic abuse situations, including coercive control I don't think. If he has issues with anger etc then he should be seeking his own help and I agree that the freedom programme is a great idea for you.

That's what I'm finding so strange though LemonTT. Dp has never been one for going out that much. It's always been me who's the more impulsive one and I was always out way more than him. In fact everyone (my family include) expected me to be the one to struggle with parenthood, not him.
Our joint mates always joked that Dp was a dad before he was even a dad!

I think adjusting to a new baby is one of the hardest things a couple has to go through. Not that that excuses any of his behaviour OP.

I really don't see him as being abusive Ethel80. I've read the book from the freedom Programme and I just don't see him in it.
The shouting wasn't on and if that was regular then I'd probably think yes it could be abusive. But a one off when he's saying he was really tired and stressed out, I don't think it is.
The rest of his behaviour is crappy behaviour and not something I'm willing to put up with in a relationship but being a selfish, inconsiderate twat isn't abusive either, I don't think.

I hear what you are saying. But all abuse, physical or otherwise starts with a one off. Often during pregnancy or after children arrive. And is almost not recognised for what it was at the time.

So just keep thinking about it. And try very hard not to change/ modify your behaviour to appease him. Even with the best of intentions.

Agree - he doesnt sound abusive at this stage. But...it becomes abusive if it's a pattern. He acts a right royal twat, apologises, calms down, then flares up again.

Red flag is that he flared up about your friends, and that both your mum and gran were advising you to get rid - did they tell u why?
Sounds like you have brilliant friends and family btw.

It's something I'm definitely going to be aware about and if he comes back home and something like it happens again, he's done!

My mum and grandma are understandably upset for me and the get rid was said more in a joking way (but not funny joking if you get me). My mum in particular definitely has that mama bear don't hurt my baby vibe, despite the fact I'm almost 25 and a mother myself 😂.
They both say it's really not like him though and they are surprised. My grandma leans more to understanding and she said it could be stress, tiredness adjusting to a new baby all taking it's toll.

Tiredness adjusting to a new baby? Don't you mean tiredness going out on the piss and leaving you to it?

I think the expecting you to have cleaned his kit after all that happened shows exactly how he views you. As a domestic to serve him.

He also treated your female friend with complete contempt and told her to fuck off.

This is what he is.

Hi Op, my husband just reminded me we did two lots of counselling, around half a dozen, then a year later things started going a bit wrong again so we did another 4 or so as a reminder and its been great since. We found ours through relate. She actually worked for them but was leaving the week after our intro session, and relate couldn't fit us in for a few months. We would have killed each other by then, so asked the one who did the intro session whether she would take us on privately. I think she was brilliant, so did my other half. Stuff he was thinking but couldn't tell me came out and we found a good way forward

@GirlOnIt Obviously you know him and we don't so fair enough but stay aware and monitor to see how things go from here.

To be fair to him manorial. He does/did help through the night and early morning with Ds. Always took him down for the first hour he was awake before leaving for work and would change/wind him after I fed him through the night. The going out effected me rather than Ds as it was generally when Ds was already asleep.

Maybe it's me or our relationship and he's not really happy anymore. It was me he was avoiding when going out and me he was angry with.
I need to have a proper conversation with him I think, just not sure if it's a bit early still and if I should wait a while or I just need to bite the bullet and sit down with him.

I'm usually one of the first in line to say LTB, but this does sound more like a good man behaving badly than a bad man letting his true colours show. If he's not a great deal older than you I believe there's scope for him to grow out of this, which he better bloody had do quickly as he is a father and main breadwinner now. I think you're handling it pretty well so far. It's important for him to realise you do mean business, that this really could mean the end if he doesn't pull his grown man socks up. I hope for both your sakes he can and does.

Look at it this way: just like disciplining a toddler, it's in his interests to learn how to behave too. You don't have to live with him forever if it doesn't work for you, but he will always have to live with himself. He'll be much happier being a better version of himself.

As for the spat with the male friend a few years ago, sounds like a load of silly sniping that went too far and it wouldn't do for anyone involved to read too much into it. Nobody behaves well all the time. Especially (but by no means exclusively) when they're young.

Maybe it's me or our relationship and he's not really happy anymore

Then that’s for him to say to you. Like an actual adult.

It was me he was avoiding when going out and me he was angry with

...and again. That’s for him to bring up.

I need to have a proper conversation with him I think, just not sure if it's a bit early still and if I should wait a while or I just need to bite the bullet and sit down with him

Stop pandering. He’s the one that fucked up. He needs to work out why, he needs to own it, he needs to sort it out. He’s a grown man, don’t act like he’s your child who needs you to spell out to him what he needs to do.

You’re (understandably) trying to ‘fix it’ and ‘make it all better’ because you want everything to be back to how it was. Getting it to be back how it was fixes the surface, not the foundations. HE needs to do the growing up, you cannot do it for him. Given your age, & I’m assuming he’s of a similar age, literally ‘growing up’ is probably what he needs to do.

You don’t need relationship counselling. If any counselling is needed/wanted, do it separately.

If Op wants to retain the relationship counselling is one way of bringing feelings and issues out into the open. The reason lots of people suggest counselling is because it works!