Giving up the chance to ever be a mother for my partner?

[AdamMichael]

My partner is my absolute world. The person who I never thought existed. He really is perfect for me in every way and the love and connection I have for him is indescribable. He was my first ever love/partner and honestly, I love him even more now, it's literally only got better and better.

We of course spoke about children very early on (we started off as just friends) and we both agreed children would be nice, but no time soon (we were 20 at the time) we have enjoyed our life together for 10 years and we both said back when we were 20, we wanted to do everything as a couple before ever bringing children into this world and honestly, that's exactly what we have done. I recently brought up children and he said he had been thinking about it too and he said he doesn't feel he wants to have children right now and admits he doesn't know it will change. He says he really does like children (we have lots of children in the extended family) but thinks that he isn't quite sure he wants to be "Dad" and have his own. I get what he's saying, we enjoy so much together, we still enjoy being lazy on a Saturday and spending the day catching up on TV shows and films. We have a hobby we both love to do and he thinks bringing a child will absolutely mean they come first before any of that and says he isn't quite sure that's what he wants and will make him the happiest in life.

I always did want children but I honestly think I have to think of what I have here and now and I just can't let him go for a child that doesn't exist yet. The thing is I told my mum and she started crying??? Telling me it's the wrong decision and that he is selfish and really basically knocking him and making out like he is in the wrong and that this relationship will no longer last and in the future I will regret never going with someone else to have children. She is divorced and claims it'll happen to me and the only reason she kept going was because she had children etc etc

Honestly I am now like wtf I don't know what to think and I just felt I needed to ask others. Thanks.

I would invest some time and money in joint relationship counselling to explore the issues.

I think his less that perfect experience of family life has cast a shadow across his feelings of his own ability to enjoy family life and parent. His fears may be addressed - or not but at least you will know his stance and will have also been exploring your own feelings and options during that time.

Once you have done that you won’t be in the position of feeling that you have forced him to comply by saying I am leaving if we don’t have kids - as through the process it will become clear what he really wants.

Would be getting on with that before marriage and sooner rather than later.

@Wordthe I know what you mean but I think it's actually more varied than that. I think it's the case that while you do get men like @Irma's DH, on the whole men are more ambivalent about having children than women. I know several men who were not at all fussed and their position was "if my wife wants children, we'll have them, if she doesn't, then we won't". Whereas it's more unusual to have women who are that sort of ambivalent. It was, for a long time regarded as "the done thing" to date, get married, have kids. Hence the views of the OP's own mum.

The world has changed. Women are far more empowered now and there are women choosing not to have children in increasing numbers. More choices of contraception. And at the same time, women who really want kids can now do it alone without a man!

No one is right or wrong in wanting to have children or not wanting to have children. No one should pressurise anyone into having children or not having children. What there should be is more acceptance of whatever a person's wish/desire/want/need without rushing to condemn either partner who doesn't agree.

You asked for opinions so here's mine, in your shoes i would decide on a date for a decision to be made by. As pp said, your fertility is time sensitive. You can do it in your head, or talk to him about it. So say in two years time you will make a decision whether you really want a child, and if the answer is yes, then you need to tell him it's what you want. He can stay and have a family, or he can go, that will be his choice. Lazy Sundays and hobbies are lovely but surely can get monotonous over many years? Having DC is a massive decision though and absolutely life-changing so you really need to know what you want.

Irma, no one is pointing at individual men and their subjective reasons and decisions. It's a general trend and a theory about the underlying reasons in what is a social trend. It's generalisation in order to create a theory that explains a phenomenon. No one is suggesting that individual men think this way. Although undoubtedly many do. And of those that do, they don't know themselves how they came to think this way. Put it this way, if you ask a man a question you usually just get an answer, you don't get pages of complex equations or a philosophical treatise. If you ask most people how they reach their conclusions (ideas, ideologies, bias, feelings, belief, and wisdom, folklore, gut reactions, teaching and acquired knowledge) they will insist the conclusion is the working out! Even the most sexist of men are probably not evil men thinking through their every behaviour, but ignorant men who see the world as it but stop questioning why it is as it is.

Lazy Sundays and hobbies are lovely but surely can get monotonous over many years?

Depends on the hobbies and the people involved I would assume @Deadringer. I wonder how many people who opted not to have children, or found they couldn't have children, possibly cope? Presumably they hit their mid-40s and suddenly become bored from all that monotony.

Ime I think it's women - or at least the women of my generation (40-60) who were the delaying ones. We had it drummed into us at school that we could have it all, and above all a career, not like our put-upon mothers. There was the "approved" time line: university, job, fun flat share, build career, meet suitable man (or have one on boil for years), marry, have children - hopefully as late as possible.

Of course for many the plan went awry somehow. Before someone yells "Link please!" , a quick google says 1 in 5 45-year-old women in UK are childless.

I think that indeed some men are hard to "pin down", but equally I think some women ignore the fact that opportunity and fertility laughs in the face of plans.

Apart from the monotonous hobbies thing I agree with Deadringer.

Set yourself a date - work out what you want yes to children or no and then be clear with your DP -he can stay or go at that point.

I heard some well-known man on the radio talking about this - he never felt ready to be a dad - his wife sat him down and said she’s early 40s it's now or never. He still didn't feel ready but went along they hit fertility issue and had to go down IVF route - he really wishes he hadn't waited and put them through that and that he wasn't one of the older Dad's. He thought there should be more out there about declining fertility.

On the hand DSis got take into a baby by her ex - he fucked off as soon as the baby was born as he didn’t like the reality of fatherhood.

I think you have to be careful not to drift but stop and think about what you actually want – and then get him to think about what he actually wants.

Your mother has her own issues and maybe her own agenda - possible GC- she may well know women who’s DP didn’t want children then met younger women they immediate had kids with – it’s fairly common occurrence so she could also be worried about you as well. Doesn't mean what she wants is best for you.

It sounds like you have a lot of love for one another and both of you are scared of the changes children might bring. Instead of seeing this as a conflict between the two of you why not try to approach it as a team and something that will change your lifestyle but will bring you closer and enrich your lives in ways you could not imagine. Stop the negativity and present it as an opportunity and something joyful. It sounds as if he could quite easily be swayed if you took up the reins and came across as more positive and forceful about it. Most men don't have the same level of desire for children as women so you need to sweep him along. He loves you, you love him, you have had 10 great years of being just the two of you and now it's the next stage. Go for it!

From what you've written it seems like he does want to marry you and he will have children if you really want them bit is unsure himself. I don't see a reason to break up this relationship. A lot of people don't feel ready or can imagine themselves being parents until they become parents. I know of women who didn't want children until they became pregnant accidentally or until time was running out.

And travelling etc is exciting but so is raising your own little human and you can also take them with you. I've got 4 of them and yes, for a decade my life was dedicated to them but now I'm back enjoying my career, my social life, going out etc and sometimes they come with me and sometimes they don't. I altered my life for them but that's fine. And also you enjoy your free time so much more when you're a parent!

What @tootruetoyou said

Irma, yes that's certainly a thing.

I'm 45 and many of my friends followed this advice. For me, my own mother was a left wing feminist, she said "women are chasing equality through wage distribution, the male wage will simply be more equally distributed, and the capitalist will be laughing all the way to the bank" credit fills the gap between the more equally distributed but essentially lowered (effect of feminised labour and lower rate of profit) family wage. It's shit. And it's ideology of greater equality and power is held up as a victory whilst it's not women having it all but doing it all. It's not men either who benefit, even when they expect and still benefit from wife work, their wife is only able to do wife work when she isn't being fucked (exploited) by her bosses for half her husband's wage! And she's too tired for sex. But that's ok too, because the system has factored in single poor women to perform that function, over and over again relayed as it is directly to you on any screen you like, bought and paid for with a percentage of your wife's wage,......and who benefits? And men, you have your jollies having paid twice for the privilege.

No wonder we have baby men who want dinner but go limp at bed time. Men who chase ideals, a falling birth rate, more and individuated, self obsessed people. But that's all good because another new handbag fills the gap between love, desire, family and belonging and squares the circle. How many women are beyond paranoid about their appearance now? How many are eating or spending their way equilibrium.

But yeah, if equal distribution of wages is equality, we've made it. And yeah, of course men still choose to live with us, what can they afford on one wage......a shed. Capital has created the illusion of choice and a very real compunction to avoid the cost of children, and even if you have them it makes a pretty penny out of your guilt by telling you you'll need everything in the Argos catalog lest your child fail miserably.

They flit about doing random activities, holidays and expensive meals out but their lives look so empty. She appears deeply unhappy and never satisfied. He would love to make her happy and throws money/time at this but it never happens because at the core they are living this very young, carefree, seemingly enviable life that makes great Facebook pictures but there's just no substance

I can only assume this was written out of ignorance. If not it's really insulting and utter bullshit to infer that people who choose not to have children or, as in my case unable to have them, somehow lead vacuous, unfulfilled lives.

if he thought he would lose me, I know he'd have them and do his best for them but just admitting he might have been happier without that but once they are here, his opinion would of course change but that sounds like such a bad plan

Not necessarily. A lot of people just don't get that broody. My DH was highly ambivalent about children, simply put he never had the slightest interest. But I got terribly broody and told him I wanted kids and he said "then that's what we do, I'm not denying a person of having kids, you'd resent me forever"

We now have 2 and he's 100% obsessed with them. Did he suddenly become broody when I got pregnant? Of course not. His body wasn't a mass of hormones like mine. But he was respectful and attentive. And once that baby came out and clasped his finger and stared up at him, it was game over for him.

If you want him to be as broody as you, you'll be waiting a long time. But should broody be a deal breaker? Isn't willingness enough?

You say you can't let him go for a child
That doesn't exist yet.

So to me, that sounds like you want children in the future.

He may never change his mind.

I didn't think I wanted children and then I fell pregnant. Best thing I have ever done with my life. I was happy before but my
Daughter just blows me away.

Regardless of how happy any of my previous relationships have made me feel, nothing compares to how happy and proud my daughter makes me feel.

You have one chance of a life to do with it as you want. Unfortunately for us women,
We can only carry a child for about half of it.

He can Father a child if he changes his mind at any age.

Good luck op I hope you get what you want x

Well said @Minnie!

Your man wants to have his cake and eat it, he wants to have the best years of your life all for himself

I didn't mean to be sniffy about hobbies, I just meant that the way you use your spare time in your 20s might seem rather pointless in your 40s, especially for the op, if later on she really wants a child she might feel that she is just filling in time that she would rather spend being a mother. I didn't mean it generally, but in her case. Tbf I am not a hobby person at all, I spend my free time slobbing about.

If you both didn't want them then fine, but you do want them.

To be a cliche, I would never have believed I could love anybody or anything as much as my children. The idea that they never would have existed is heartbreaking, they are everything to me.

I never wanted them, then one day I woke up and literally overnight I had been consumed with the desire to have one. Just the one though. Then I had him and now I have two and I would love a third, they're so much fun and make my life infinitely better than any weekend lay in or lazy weekend ever could.

If you think even that you might want children then I would leave, there is nothing that will console you if you woke up one day desperate for one and it was too late.

That's true Deadringer, hobbies change, people change.

Even if you keep doing the same hobby all of your adult life it's frequency waxes and wanes. Some years you're the club secretary, some years you only do it when you have time.

Hobbies are not concrete monoliths that stays that same until you grow old.

How dare you I am a dyed-in-the-wool stamp collector and will be till the day I die

My other hobby is the study of brutalism, the study of concrete monoliths
my hobby is a concrete monolith that will stay the same until I grow old

It is possible to develop new hobbies and interests after you have children. I've seen more historic houses and museums in the last 16 years than at any other time. I've been introduced to some interesting you tube lectures, concepts in science and even tried paint ball. Last week I went to a lecture on quantum physics with my son, not something I would have done without his enthusiasm. It's not just childless people who lead interesting lives.

It's always about compromise isn't it. Is OPs partner willing to compromise? Because I think it is something men can compromise on, women can't really. And even if you leave to find a man who wants children there is no real way of knowing he'd make a better or worse father than the current partner who is less enthusiastic. Men's lives often don't change that much, it's usually women who do the vast majority of childcare and sacrifice their freedoms and careers. Even when the man wants children.

My feeling has always been that if a man really loves and respects a woman, he will step up, do his bit and make a good father. I think that is further underscored by reading MN. Read so many stories of men becoming hopeless irresponsible fathers once the relationship is over between him and his partner. Also, as many have said, many men who say no to children go on later to cheat or leave and then have children with another woman. So, perhaps it boils down to how much does he love you, and would he do everything in his power to make you happy and to keep you two together.

It's just too big a gamble. Once you pass your fertile years there's no going back.

If he was worth giving up motherhood for, you wouldn't be questioning this.

Your mum was OTT but probably sees what you are not seeing.

I've known of men who are happy in LTR, no kids - who then go on to marry and have kids with another woman. So that says they just didn't see the woman they were with as their forever woman, and the mother of their children

I agree, it would be too big of a gamble for me.

Unless you are one of those hopeless romantics who think that there is only one person out there for you, then it's pragmatic to remember that there are plenty of other suitable men out there who won't request that you live this one life that you have without children.

Don't give up your future family if you want children for any man.