dh and porn- I can't get over it

[Dogmum21]

I have joined MN with the intention of finding out the views of others on here, I don't know if I am overreacting or being unreasonable and I don't feel able to discuss this with friends. You will see why...
A few weeks ago my DH thought I was going out and I didn't actually leave when he thought. I then walked in on him looking at something (I assume porn) on his laptop and masturbating. I was very upset and I know he felt really bad that he had upset me so much. I was very shocked that he felt he needed to do this. We decided to try to put it behind us but tbh I am still feeling really upset and can't seem to get past this. I feel betrayed and like it is only a step away from cheating on me. Now I have lost all my confidence and feel really low about myself, I feel like I have failed and am not good enough. I have always been a confident person before now. I also worry about going out now in case he does it again, and then thinking back I wonder how many times he has done it before, of course I might be completely overreacting and this could have been a one off. I have sometimes found intimacy difficult due to experiences I had when I was 11/12 but we have been together 20 years now and I have relaxed a lot more, but I wonder if I have been a let down. Has anyone else been in this situation, I would really appreciate some feedback.

Frosty- the point is that most of us think it’s right to minimise the harm to other people and to the planet in the way we live our lives as far as we can. But for some reason this does not apply to porn-when it is actually much easier to avoid the risk of exploiting people when it comes to porn than when it comes to T shirts. Because nobody actually needs porn.

Frosty, nit pick? No, we all feel strongly about different industries and their ethics, nothing wrong with that, we are all different and have different beliefs etc.

Do you think I care if you don't lose sleep over what I believe in, nut, exactly.

Spawn of Satan, eh ok then.....

Bleating on about the exploitive nature of the porn industry and given a man a lecture on it will NOT suddenly stop them watching it believe you me. All they will hear is a nagging uptight wife that'll further push them into their old comfort. If a woman has that strong of an opinion on its usage they could use it as a deal breaker for the relationship but likely to find the next man also does it. I don't like it very much but people have foibles and quirks and bad habits and porn is a very popular one and I do think it's best to give it a certain amount of acceptance. The more you lambast someone for it they'll just do it and lie about it. Best to have a discussion on your views and set a bar of what you will not tolerate.

Giving not given

I honestly don’t think the hyperbole is helpful. Neither is “but look at this other unethical thing! You can’t have a problem with this unethical thing until you have sorted out all these other unethical things”
We all do as much as we can to minimise the damage we do to the planet and to other humans. Not watching porn is one of the easiest things to do. Easier than not drinking bottled water. Certainly easier than sourcing ethical clothing.

Not all of us don’t like it because of ethics, I don’t like it because it makes me feel like shit and has made my h fetishise on certain things and seems to have hyper sexualised him, (unlike posters whose partners go off it.) I am mid to late 50’s and beyond the stage where I think life is all about sex , and very frequent porn watching in secret gives me the creeps to be honest and for me is a total turn off. It has been discussed in a non nasty way and I have been told it would stop when at home. it hasn’t he just hides it better. If it’s upsetting, it’s upsetting, regardless of it is ethics, shit self esteem or whatever. I am resigned that if we split I will become madcatlady or seek an over 50 who is happy with the occasional encounter and not really into daily porn, otherwise I won’t bother with men , others I know don’t have an issue, so fair enough , but don’t presume it’s always all about ethics

@user147 I can sympathise. My DH gets all fetishy from time to time too and I know exactly where it comes from. As you say though you try to stop it or limit it and they just hide it better.

Thanks limpbizkit. He doesn’t know I know how much and no I haven’t installed spyware, I just know how to read a router stats and my firewall and I don’t think he realises I can do that. I don’t like the amount it’s used one bit but for my own sanity am just letting it go but have mentally decided to end things if I see any sign of use of webcam sites or hook up stuff etc.

I'd be really happy that they were open to talking about sex in an open and forthright way. I would of course be honest, because an incompatible sex life is an incompatible relationship. As previously mentioned, if they said "I hate all porn and I think all men who watch porn are bad in bed/filth/addicted/misogynists" then that would basically be the end of that. Sorry, but it isn't going to work.

I agree with you that being open and honest about sex is crucial. And I totally agree that an incompatible sex life is an incompatible relationship. Which largely explains why I have no interest in a relationship with men who use porn.

Life is too short for shit sex!

The problem is that pro porn posters like to ignore the existence of porn that “does” involve exploited women

Rubbish. Simply rubbish.

Pretty much every single poster in this thread that has posted in favour of porn more than one time has acknowledged the existence of abusive porn.

You, on the other hand, refuse to address in post after post after post, that not all porn is abusive. You also refuse to address the fact that not all porn is made by men, or made for men. You also refuse to accept that a significant quantity of women watch porn. Most of the posters on this thread defending porn are women. What's your reasoning as to why they're doing it? That they're morally happy contributing to the oppression of their own gender, or that they're just idiots? Seems a bit insulting.

You keep talking about "Needs". Which is rubbish. Unless you live in a cave on a hillside eating plants you grow yourself and wear clothes woven from your own hair, then you're just as guilty of destroying the planet with your optional extras as anyone else.

You have a mobile? You don't NEED a mobile. Google the conditions of iPhone factory workers sometime. Worse than porn actors.

You have some designer brand clothing? You don't NEED brand name clothing. Google the conditions of communities in China living near textile factories and people working there. Worse than porn actors.

You say "But those things don't stop you from not watching porn" which is true, they don't.

Let's make an agreement. I'll give up my unnecessary porn the same day you give up your unnecessary mobile, okay? That way we're both morally superior and make the world a better place.

Alternatively, I'll agree to stop berating you for contributing to the deaths of people in developing countries and the slow murder of the planet, and you stop berating me for contributing to the objectification of women. We're all hypocrites anyway.

Whichever you prefer. I'm easy.

Which is precisely why I said Seth that for some women who have an issue with it, being honest, it isn't actually always about the ethics. I do appreciate for many , it's no big deal , but for others it is, even if it seems illogical to you, just the same as other habits like smoking or gambling or non stop gaming etc

Most women who use the 'ethics' card and trying to justify their distaste in a middle class manner. The truth of it is most women hate it because they find it tacky and dirty and hate the fact their men are getting off to looking at these naked big breastfed unrealistic women. No judgement (parts of me feel the same entirely) but come on. Ethics? You feel sorry for these women? No. Threatened by? Yes!

Oh god... Big breasted!!!!!!!! Damn autocorrect

I agree @limpbizket

“You also refuse to address the fact that not all porn is made by men, or made for men. You also refuse to accept that a significant quantity of women watch porn”
I don’t refuse to accept this at all. It’s a fact. Lots of women are misogynist!

No one has actually mentioned the word but for me it kind of killed 'romance' . Sex for many women is a 'head' thing too and porn for me (at a frequent level) makes me feel less romantically attracted.

This may of course be an age thing too at 57 . Maybe younger women who have grown up with it don't have the same issues

Again: pretty much every single industry has problems on some level or other with exploitation of people who work in it. Whether it's chocolate or footwear, when it comes to 'treats' and things which give pleasure, people who are concerned about workers' welfare may seek out things which are produced under ethical conditions. It's no harder to do this for porn than it is for clothing or food. Consumer demand for ethical goods helps to reduce the number of companies producing goods under exploitative conditions. Porn is no exception.

I think much of the hardline opposition to porn is based on some fairly unhealthy ideas about sexuality - that male sexuality is invariably dangerous and disgusting, that sexual pleasure should be rationed, that no woman would willingly engage in the type of sexual acts that can cause pain or carry more risk than others, and that the less interest you have in sex, the more ethical a person you are...

Would just like to say, I think the issue for some women (me included) is that the secretive porn often comes on top of other marital issues/resentments and often seems one more disrespectful thing to deal with, especially when /if they know your feelings on it

This is absolutely the issue for me, and I'm curious as to how those in favour of porn can justify it being the cause of secrets and lies in so many relationships, eg in the case of a dh who had told his wife he doesn't look, when actually is checking numerous things out a number of times a day, whenever there is an opportunity. All the discussions have been had, dh isn't into enjoying it together, yet finds it so entertaining that he will continue in secret and lie about it. Any other issue which promotes lies and secrecy is seen as being undesirable. That is the issue for me. (As well as the exploitation, of course. )

I'm curious as to how those in favour of porn can justify it being the cause of secrets and lies in so many relationships

Porn has nothing to do with keeping secrets and lying.

Keeping secrets and lying is a symptom of being in a shit relationship, not a symptom of watching porn. Many of us are in relationships where our partners watch porn and masturbate with us at the same time. We manage to avoid secrets and lies by sharing it together, or just being totally okay with each other doing it on their own.

People have a tendency to hide behaviour that they think other people find shameful. If their partner didn't try to shame them over watching porn then they wouldn't hide it. Ditto masturbation.

Part of the reason why masturbation is not good training for sex a lot of the time is because masturbation has to be kept hidden, and therefore needs to be quick and silent. Boys and girls grow up actively trying to orgasm as fast and silently as possible over fear of being noticed by their parents or siblings. If there was zero shame in masturbation and kids could tell their parents "I'm just going to jack/jill off for half an hour before dinner" then maybe they'd be better at sex and knowing what they like when they get a partner.

The fact that we have adults in relationships who still see giving yourself an orgasm when you feel like it as "disgusting" is really rather sad. I can do what I like with my own body, thanks. Just because you don't want to have orgasms doesn't mean other people aren't allowed to. You aren't morally better because you come less.

Get a grip

Sethis - but what if the partner is not ok with porn? I mean different people have different boundaries. Some want open relationship/polyamory, others are into various fetishes, some people want strong emotional relationships with people not their partner. Some will be ok with partner to go to strip clubs/sex shows, others draw the line at porn.

I guess the ideal is just to be open and discuss/negotiate boundaries and if people aren’t compatible then they can decide to stay in their less-than-ideal situation or leave? Isn’t hiding debts as bad as hiding porn?

It’s extraordinary how people can blind themselves to the ethical issue. There’s been one honest pro porn person on this thread- the poster who basically said “Yes I know that women are often exploited in the porn industry but I like it so I watch it”.
All the other weaselling about “ you can’t criticise porn unless you live a completely ethical life in all other ways” or “it’s super easy to find ethical porn” or “you only don’t like it because you’re uptight/a prude/ scared of male sexuality” is just denial.

If there was zero shame in masturbation and kids could tell their parents "I'm just going to jack/jill off for half an hour before dinner" then maybe they'd be better at sex and knowing what they like when they get a partner.

Wtaf?

Bertrand, love, I really don’t think you’re in any position to accuse other posters of being in denial after the way you’ve behaved on this thread.