He's broke - does it matter?

[123Jess]

I've been dating my boyfriend for nearly 2 years. We're very happy in most respects - we get along great, he's always a great emotional support to me and we generally have similar values etc. However, over time it's become clear just how broke he is. It never bothered me that he wasn't wealthy, but now that I want to start building a family, and it's become clear just how broke he is, it's made me think that I'm likely to be breadwinner + caretaker and that scares me a bit.

To further expand, I'm 36 (almost 37 - eek) and he's 35. I had a fairly long corporate career before moving to more a balanced job. I switched because I worked crazy hours and wanted to prioritise meeting someone and starting a family. My previous income allowed me to buy my own apartment and to generally not worry extensively about money. I have also financially supported my parents for many years.

My boyfriend is currently studying for a PhD (he still has 2 years to go), and following that he will likely become a postdoc which is a very low paid role.

I love him and don't want to delay starting a family given our ages. But then if I'm lucky enough to get pregnant and be looking after a baby, I won't be earning much either as my current job is much lower paid than my old job and the maternity benefits are also not great.

I also recently discovered my boyfriend is not only broke but that he also has a lot of debts. He seemed quite calm about that, whereas it worried me. Don't get me wrong, I've been in debt in the past too, but I've worked hard to pay it off and to save. Right now his earnings are zero so the debt is getting bigger.

The other part that annoys me is that he is sometimes critical of my past corporate career (I'd say this is the only thing he criticises me for). He thinks I only did it for the money (which is partly true) and that people who only care about money are shallow (he's never said I'm shallow but he's generally scathing about those in the corporate world and how messed up capitalist society is).

I come from a very low income, working class background so it's true that I thought I needed to work hard and get a good job to earn money (partly to help out my parents who suffer from ill health). It's almost a point of pride for him not to care about money and to be committed to having a job that's more of a vocation, I guess.

But then a vocation doesn't necessarily pay the bills. I've always wanted a big family (I am an only child). My boyfriend comes from a family of 6 children. We'd always talked about having a big family but when we talked about it again last week he said that each child is like a second mortgage and we wouldn't be able to afford it.

Overall, I'm just feeling like a bit of an idiot. I worked so hard in my younger years, and now I feel like I'm getting older and I'm desperate to start a family. It's all I've ever wanted and I feel like I wasted my 20s and early 30s working. But now I'm back to worrying about money again. Many of my friends are able not to work, as their husbands/partners earn enough to keep them and they are happy not working. I'm not saying that I don't want to work per se but the one thing I'm certain that I do want is a family and this feels like another big obstacle, despite how hard I've worked to amass my own savings.

I've been generally so happy in this relationship (we've had a few ups and downs but doesn't everyone) and was really feeling ready to take the next step towards family. But now I'm starting to have doubts and fear.

Sorry for the long post xx

It probably would worry me too if there was alot of debts. Will he always go into debt because he is living beyond his means?
Not earning alot isn't the end of the world but the debts would concern me.

How is he supporting himself now? A post-doc usually starts at around £30k+ so while not a huge salary is above average and will likely lead to him becoming a lecturer after a few years. In all honesty, if you really want a baby you need to get on with it regardless of your financial position. So tell him that’s what you want to do - now. You may not stay together and you may have to think about how to play that, but your fertility clock is ticking.

Are his debts due to studying or because of carelessness?

Do you currently service those debts if he’s not working?

Leaving aside the financial issue are you sure you want to be with him for life?

Thanks for your reply @TooManyPuppies. I think it was the debt revelation (and his lack of concern regarding it) that really got me worried. It's all student debt/loans that have built up over his education - undergraduate/masters/phd. I didn't know about it until recently as I thought he had funding for his studies but when he said funding he meant loans, hence the debt. Then when I realised he had all this debt, it occurred to me it was maybe a bit irresponsible to waste money and not be concerned with overspending. He also doesn't have a part-time job, whereas I always worked full-time or part-time whilst studying.

He told me not to worry about it but now I'm thinking I could be 40 and he still wouldn't be earning anything, and would have all these debts. Which isn't a great foundation for building a family. We would be better off if he moved in with me (as then he wouldn't have rent to pay) but he has always been insistent on having his own place. He did move in with me for 6 months last year (when he was between rental properties). I actually really enjoyed that time when we were living together. I felt it strengthened our relationship and I loved having him here everyday. But a lot of my friends were quite horrified as they thought he was living off me for free.

Im torn between rejecting outdated gender notions of who should earn what versus real concern and anxiety over a lack of financial responsibility.

Hi Op I think you are very right to be concerned. I could have written your post a few years ago (well I think I did under another username) and what he is showing you now is what you will most likely get. My then partner and I dreamed of the children but he could never stay in any regular work and when I fretted about money he would say that's all I thought about and we would manage as long as we loved each other 🙄 he back then didn't have an established home because of a financial 'situation' we've been finished several years and he is STILL in a 'situation'.
The financial burden will most likely fall to you as he goes from one study to another or a vocational job that pays peanuts but he's 'passionate' about it.
I know you're watching the clock but give it some more time, at 2 months it's still the honeymoon phase. Worst case by six months he'll either have unofficially moved in/ stay at your every night and not contribute a penny to the household (and you find it difficult to bring up with him because he'll make comments that make you sound grabby or he'll sulk off home for a few days making you feel guilty) or if he's serious he'll be executing a plan to manage his debts so that he is in a better position to further your plans of a family together.
I hope for you it's the later.

Sorry Op I just re read you've been together two years not two months!
Very tired

@LellyMcKelly thanks for your reply. Yes, the baby thing is how this all started. I asked him if we could start trying for a baby and he was quite horrified as he said he we aren't in a position to have kids right now (due to finances). I was upset as we'd talked about having a family lots before and we've always been aligned as to how much we both want a family. He said he didn't know I meant now or even in the next year or two, which is crazy as I'm 36 so it wouldn't be the smartest plan to wait until 40 then just hope for the best....Therefore, his response took me aback and it's circled into more and more panic since.

To answer your other questions - he is supporting himself through student loans just now (which obviously adds to the debts). I don't give him money but I pay for more than my fair share of our food and I drive him around etc.

I think once he has a salary it'll be ok but that's 2 years away and I'm not prepared to wait that long to try for a baby.

Last year I was very happy and contented and in love and now I'm panicking and it all feels like a bit of a mess.

Thanks for your response @NashvilleQueen
His debts are due to studying but they're extensive because he's been studying for 8 years, including abroad.
I don't service them but as I said to a previous poster I pay more than my fair share of our joint expenses (like food, petrol etc). When he moved in with me for a while I was paying for everything.
Until recently I was sure I wanted to be with him for life. It is a very special relationship and he has treated me very well. A lot of my past relationships when I worked in corporate life were with more arrogant men who would dismiss me when I was talking etc, typical misogynistic stuff. My boyfriend always listens to my views and hears me emotionally as well (except for this recent baby thing when he freaked out a little which is so unusual).
My friends aren't so keen on him. A lot of my friends don't understand what I see in him as he is quite introverted and quiet whereas I've always been very social. I don't socialise as much now as I'm happy being at home with my boyfriend so some friends think he's making me boring. I'm sortof a closeted introvert though so this is probably a reversion back to my natural state. I also really want to build a home and a family together but I guess it's weird to think I'll be the one doing all of that and paying for everything.

Last year was still early days - and you didn't know about the debts.

I'm sorry OP but he sounds unrealistic and selfish to me. He's aware of your age and the whole situation and whether you are money minded or not you do need to provide for yourself in life - he doesn't sound like he is, he is just borrowing to do that.

Oh for his carefree life of pursuing dreams and shirking any real responsibilities - how would he even cope with another little human being to take into account before himself?

@gingerfreckles thanks for your reply - really appreciate your insight especially since you've been in a similar situation.

My partner has always said similar. He always says he can live on a very low income and he'd be happy in a job he loves that pays peanuts essentially. Then I start to think am I the only one thinking practically here?! I don't need riches but I also don't want to be constantly worrying about money when we have kids. My parents went through quite extreme poverty when I was young and they always told me to work hard so I wouldn't have that worry.

I'm also a bit worried that things won't get better as you say. Right now, I'm saying he's 2 years away from finishing his studies, but he's behind in a lot of respects, so it could potentially be 3 or 4 years.

He did unofficially move in for a while, as he stayed at my place every night and most of the day, then he officially moved in for 6 months, but now he has a new place and we pretty much alternate where we stay and also have nights apart. I suppose it's good that he was uncomfortable living off me and didn't want that to continue, which shows some responsiblity?

Very tired too. should go to bed! Thanks for all the advice. Feeling very stressed about this. Was stressed about fertility at first and now I'm stressed about whether we should be together long-term and then if not that's an even bigger fertility issue. I just want a family so bad so maybe that's clouding my judgment as well, I don't know.

@NameWithChange thanks for your input. You've raised another point that is stressing me, which is whether he is even mature enough and responsible enough to take care of a child. He struggles to cope with himself and his studies (I take care of myself). Sometimes he doesn't get out of bed til 3pm (although we are both night owls, but still). The jobs he has had he has left very quickly because he didn't like them.

The fertility thing is really worrying me. I think we need to have another serious talk about it because he's avoiding the issue right now. I'm so ready for a family yet he thinks we can wait like 5 years which is ridiculous.

The whole thing makes me really sad. I thought I had found someone great who I could build a life and a family with. But now I feel quite alone and anxious about everything.

He sounds immature and a bit of a gobshite. I spent most of my working life in higher education, it’s really hard getting a temp post doc let alone a permanent lectureship.

To me it’s not about the lack of money, plenty of people go through times of hardship, it’s more about his attitude to his debt.

@123Jess My desire for a baby's definitely clouded my judgement, it was more like a thick fog!!
Despite all the red flags we went ahead and got pregnant, then straight away he freaked out and said he wasn't ready let's wait another year or maybe two . I think at this age he's not going to change significantly. If you want to have a family with him go ahead but knowing that you'll need to do the lions share. I know 3 friends who have had healthy first babes at 40+ so don't panic.
Stick with the principles that you have and don't settle for less. There is enough settling to be done once you become a mother anyway.

Ps. No sleep because of an upset tummy

He doesn’t sound particularly rooted in the real world. Why are you driving him around? He’s scathing about working for the man but has no problem enjoying the perks of your work for the man. He future faked you, talk is cheap.

You’ve hitched your wagon with somebody who talks a good talk but when pressed, doesn’t seem able to work his legs.

The price of having a child with this man is financial uncertainty and someone who has no idea about responsibility in the real world, it’s no wonder he’s trying to move the goalposts. It also sounds like him being ‘ready’, will conveniently coincide with your fertility being over.

If you want children, let alone in a relationship with shared financial responsibility, then your bf isn’t the one.

The balls in your court, not his.

What did he do before he studies for the last 8 years?

If he is terrible with money and that's why he was broke then yes I would be very concerned about him being broke. If he worked hard then decided to study to change careers (8 years seems like a very long time to study?) then that is a bit different. I don't see why he has no job at the moment though, that just makes him seem very lazy.

*studied, not studies sorry.

I think if you want a baby now, and can afford it, get pregnant via sperm donor.
Your BF sounds lazy and immature. He'll never be in a financial position to support you on maternity leave, and doesn't even care.
Having kids can blow any cracks WIDE open due to stresses about finances and lack of sleep and resentment both sides.
Not getting up til 3pm, not having a part time job whilst studying and being massively in debt whilst a perennial student would be a nope for me.
I'd say it's more he's lazy and doesn't actually WANT to work and this is his temporary way out of that to almost 40.

If there is a lot of debt this would be a worry for me too, especially as you say you have worked long and hard to earn the savings that you have.

A child is a huge commitment & very expensive, none ever tells you about the expense before you have them! 😂 but it does cost and he needs to be prepared for that.

Maybe you can encourage him to find a better paying employment?

@AgentJohnson did you meet my ex dp? You've described him to a tee! The problem with these men is that they are usually nice guys, easy to get along with, loving and easy on the eye. But if you scratch the surface..
Do they still use the term 'cocklodger' on mn? I remember reading that here as a response to my first ever post

I would break up with him. He is genuinely previewing for you what life with him would be like. The perennial student who is disdainful about money as long as someone else is picking up the tab for living.

That someone has been the taxpayer for all his student loans. I doubt he will ever pay them off from the sounds of things. Then it will be you.

I wouldn't respect him and I would not have a child with someone I didn't respect. He just sounds a lazy freeloader.

It's a No from me!

I spent most of my working life in higher education, it’s really hard getting a temp post doc let alone a permanent lectureship.

^^ This. Me too - if this is his plan, it's increasingly likely - given the current academic climate - that he either won't secure a post or the work will be short-tern contracts.

Do not fall for the 'love will carry us through' line. Money worries will add an enormous stress on the relationship when you have children.

Thanks for all the responses @Adversecamber22 @gingerfreckles @AgentJohnson @StoppinBy @AlphaFemale86 @OneInAMillionYou - I really appreciate all the advice.
Maybe I am settling because I'm worried about fertility. I probably would have run a mile from this when I was younger! I always thought he was very smart and thoughtful and caring. He's always there when I need him emotionally. But the debts and his attitude towards them was a big red flag. And when I talked seriously about taking active steps towards having a family, his attitude was so different to when we had talked about it theoretically. When we'd talked about it before, he always said he wanted to be an equal parent and really be there for his kids, as many dad's arent. And I was really drawn to that. But now he seems really scared at the thought of having kids.
You're right he doesn't really live in the real world in a lot of ways. To be honest, that was maybe part of the attraction because he is quite intellectual and a deep thinker. But then when it comes to taking financial responsibility he doesn't seem to have the skills.
I actually don't fully know what he did before his studies. I know he started a degree when he was 18 but dropped out after 2 years (so actually that's another 2 years of study, taking it to 10 years). Then he didn't start his next set of studies til he was 26 so there's a 6-year black hole there. He sometimes talks about working in a pizza place and a shop but otherwise I'm not sure what happened during those 6 years!
I think I would feel better about his siutation if he had a part-time job just now. He says his degree is too demanding. But there is a woman in his class who's ahead of him in her project (by at least 6 months Id say) and she works 30 hours a week and has 2 kids under 5.
I never had any thoughts of breaking up with him until we had the baby discussion. It really took me aback as I had thought we were on the same page. Then the debts revelation. We've been spending more time apart since those discussions, which I guess has given me more time to think, and my anxiety has grown.
I think your point about previewing what life would be like is a good one @OneInAMillionYou, because it doesn't seem like people change massively, especially at age 35. He should really have gotten his shit together by now, right? I keep giving him the benefit of hte doubt with poor choices he makes and encouraging him but I don't know if anything will really change and then it's an even bigger mess when kids are involved.

@Adversecamber22 @AntiBi good points about the postdoc /academic job market too. I know how hard it is and that a postdoc is probably a best-case scenario. A related worry is that I really love where we live now, and the academic job market can involve a lot of moving around. He asked me last year if I would move if we needed to and I said of course, but at the same time I'd really like to be settled.

I've never been scared to be single but it's really a thought to start over again at my age. But at the same time, I don't want to settle. Just been feeling really sad recently at spending a lot of my life working and not meeting someone special and now the fertility clock is ticking so loud in my head it terrifies me.

He is not going to change. You need to decide if you are going to have a baby then find a better paying job for the childcare costs as I bet he won’t find any ‘passion’ looking after his own child

Do you still live separately? That really doesn't make financial sense especially if you want a baby. He doesn't sound ready/want to start a family if he's rolling out of bed at 3pm! Those dents would bother me but then his lack of wanting to be financially secure would irritate me also. I'm not money driven per se (I work in the civil service so not exactly highly paid) but I would hate to have to worry about money or have a partner who wasn't financially secure. There is nothing wrong in admitting your expectations of a relationship have changed, what you once found attractive you no longer do, that actually financial security to start a family is now important to you (it would me).
Don't waste too much time trying to figure it out....you might love him but are you in love with him still. Having a baby seems important to you, I don't think this chap will support you well in that.