He's broke - does it matter?

[123Jess]

I've been dating my boyfriend for nearly 2 years. We're very happy in most respects - we get along great, he's always a great emotional support to me and we generally have similar values etc. However, over time it's become clear just how broke he is. It never bothered me that he wasn't wealthy, but now that I want to start building a family, and it's become clear just how broke he is, it's made me think that I'm likely to be breadwinner + caretaker and that scares me a bit.

To further expand, I'm 36 (almost 37 - eek) and he's 35. I had a fairly long corporate career before moving to more a balanced job. I switched because I worked crazy hours and wanted to prioritise meeting someone and starting a family. My previous income allowed me to buy my own apartment and to generally not worry extensively about money. I have also financially supported my parents for many years.

My boyfriend is currently studying for a PhD (he still has 2 years to go), and following that he will likely become a postdoc which is a very low paid role.

I love him and don't want to delay starting a family given our ages. But then if I'm lucky enough to get pregnant and be looking after a baby, I won't be earning much either as my current job is much lower paid than my old job and the maternity benefits are also not great.

I also recently discovered my boyfriend is not only broke but that he also has a lot of debts. He seemed quite calm about that, whereas it worried me. Don't get me wrong, I've been in debt in the past too, but I've worked hard to pay it off and to save. Right now his earnings are zero so the debt is getting bigger.

The other part that annoys me is that he is sometimes critical of my past corporate career (I'd say this is the only thing he criticises me for). He thinks I only did it for the money (which is partly true) and that people who only care about money are shallow (he's never said I'm shallow but he's generally scathing about those in the corporate world and how messed up capitalist society is).

I come from a very low income, working class background so it's true that I thought I needed to work hard and get a good job to earn money (partly to help out my parents who suffer from ill health). It's almost a point of pride for him not to care about money and to be committed to having a job that's more of a vocation, I guess.

But then a vocation doesn't necessarily pay the bills. I've always wanted a big family (I am an only child). My boyfriend comes from a family of 6 children. We'd always talked about having a big family but when we talked about it again last week he said that each child is like a second mortgage and we wouldn't be able to afford it.

Overall, I'm just feeling like a bit of an idiot. I worked so hard in my younger years, and now I feel like I'm getting older and I'm desperate to start a family. It's all I've ever wanted and I feel like I wasted my 20s and early 30s working. But now I'm back to worrying about money again. Many of my friends are able not to work, as their husbands/partners earn enough to keep them and they are happy not working. I'm not saying that I don't want to work per se but the one thing I'm certain that I do want is a family and this feels like another big obstacle, despite how hard I've worked to amass my own savings.

I've been generally so happy in this relationship (we've had a few ups and downs but doesn't everyone) and was really feeling ready to take the next step towards family. But now I'm starting to have doubts and fear.

Sorry for the long post xx

I'd think about going ahead with a baby, if he's willing, if you can afford it alone. I would not join finances or marry him.

I'm sorry to say that you don't have time to have the large family you dreamed of now. If you want to have any children you don't have time to wait patiently until he finishes his studies.

Whilst everyone knows someone who got pregnant easily at 40, you will be less fertile then than you are now, and run a real risk of not managing to have a child. If you want to have a child (and it sounds like this is really important to you) your options are TTC with him now, TTC with a sperm donor or leave him and seek a new relationship.

If he does agree to TTC with you, you may end up being the working parent and he stays at home with the child (if his academic career doesn't pan out). Would this be acceptable to you?

Are you earning enough that you could pay for childcare from your own salary if he isn't earning a regular salary eg if he is on short term post doc contracts? Presumably you won't want to move around the country following his job with baby, so his options for academic career will be reduced.

It's admirable that you are helping your parents financially but if you have a child as a single parent/ with this man you may need to reduce or stop this, would this be acceptable to you?

I would have a serious conversation with him and explain that you want to start TTC now with him fully committed to having a baby, or split. (Fully committed as in not saying "oh you're ovulating this week? Sorry I'm a bit tired out actually so I'm going to sleep early").

An alternative would be a sperm donor, one of my friends seriously considered this but ended up deciding to not have a child instead.

Are you with him because you love him or because you want a baby? If the baby then go and do it alone then use him or someone else for that.

I'm not shallow so don't pick partners by their earning power, I do expec the, to be able to pay their share of the bills though as won't bankroll another adult. There's also the role model side tha children see, a parent not working isn't one I would want for them.

Frozen eggs have a very low success rate. Frozen embryos much better, but you obviously need sperm for that.

If he doesn't want a baby, then you need to bail while you have a few years of fertility left.

In my opinion student loans don't count as debt when working out your financial plan.
They are an investment in his future earning potential and are only repaid out of his salary when he earns over £25k a year.

If he has other debts however that's a different matter.

You need to do a realistic budget and see if you could actually support yourself through maternity leave and afford childcare when you go back to work.

Have your parents looked into benefits they may be entitled to, this could ease the burden on your salary

I think you should be very very careful OP. With 2 years of PhD to go he’s still at the early stages. Every friend I’ve got who did a PhD was broken by the end. It’s intense especially in the final year. Do not have a baby! Then postdocs are intense too. I’m not sure you’re compatible. You want different things, have different values and view things like finances differently. That’s not a good basis to start a family. His horrified reaction surely tells you everything you need to know. Don’t relinquish your dreams for somebody who doesn’t want the same as you. If it was me I’d cut my losses and go find somebody who wants the same things

They are an investment in his future earning potential and are only repaid out of his salary when he earns over £25k a year.

Which given he'll be 37 before he even starts work, will be more limited. He's had 16 years less experience than somebody who left university at age 21.

Then he's either stuck in a low paid job or s better paid one and 20 years of paying off student debts.

Money can't buy you happiness, but when you're in the dark eating beans out of a can, you'll probably feel a bit miffed. And for the love of Gordon the Gopher, don't marry him and let him walk away with half of your flat you worked so hard to earn. Then he really will be scoffing at your corporate lifestyle.

What possessed him to fund his own doctorate in his 30s, when he knew he'd have to make his own living later and didn't have a strong CV already? Some people (who are to a degree financially independent) are in the position to take the risk, but even brilliant doctoral candidates in their 20s who've taken every career-building opportunity going are currently struggling to secure postdocs despite being prepared to move all over the country or even abroad. Either he didn't research his decision to make sure it was informed, or he ignored any advice he got unless it was the 'follow your dream' type. Plus, are these loans all on SLC terms, or are some private? And he can't even give you total transparency - it's a massive deal to allow you to assume he'd been awarded funding when he hadn't been (big achievement and solid indicator of academic merit - and no one in academia would innocently refer to loans as funding as it gives the wrong impression) and not to clarify what he did during those years in his 20s. I'm sorry OP, I know this is your life and so much easier said than done to leave, but I couldn't trust this man to be pragmatic (or trust him full stop) and would never even consider joining finances with him.
(As for him being scathing about your successful career - words fail!)

Good advice on here, OP. You mention past thoughts you were on the same page but I'd gently suggest you might have written that page yourself

I'd ditch, throw yourself out there before you waste any more time on this lazy child. And at home and his lofty values; those are v cheap for him when others pay for them as money or your potential sacrifice of being a parent.

I had a similar situation as you at 35 married and pregnant within a year btw.

He sounds like a bit of a messer and an eternal student.

I wouldn't want a family with him as all the concerns you already have would be heightened.

How old is he?

Yes thought Hopelessly's posts in particular VG for practical considerations

The fact he didn’t get out of bed till 3pm did it for me - some people have done a days (paid) work by then.
He could easily be doing 15-20 hours a week to pay his living costs/debts but he choses not to and OP is facilitating this.
He was quite keen on a family when it was a far off nebulous idea but less keen on it as a realistic concept.
Op he’s a man child - if you really want children either have a child with him and accept you will for ever have another child to look after, look for a donor, or dump him and look for a better person to co parent with.

He's quite the philosopher. Meanwhile, in the real world.....

Further to my post upthread I was single and dating at 35. Had a brief fling with a man like this but thankfully came to my senses quickly. (Atuall I read He's not that into you and the phrase "don't waste the pretty" really resonated...) and met DH later that year OLD. Had two babies at 39 and 41. Every day you're with him is a day you're not out there meeting someone who does want your babies and will pay his way. At your age, when it's right, you don't faff around, you go for it. I agree a backup plan of using a sperm donor if you've not met anyone within a year or so is wise.

OP you know what you want, and as someone who didn't marry until 32 and started trying for a family at 34, then finding l had lots of issues carrying a baby , l would say don't wait....your age is a huge factor, go it alone if need be.

Find extra income, do you have a spare room you could let out? could you rent out your flat and rent a smaller cheaper one?

Find a way... but don't hesitate...

.BTW l now am lucky enough to have 2 wonderful Dcs but it was touch and go, and every day l realise how deeply unhappy l would have been if all had failed.

Imagine your life at 50 and 60 and be honest how much you are willing to do to have your family

He's a cocklodger and you're his meal ticket. Get out now.

I’m an academic, and I currently supervise a 35 year old FT doctoral student with three teenage children, two with significant additional needs. She has a thirty mile drive from home to campus, and drops off one child to college en route — I see her in the building by 8.30 daily.

Also, with Brexit and the fees situation, funding is particularly muddy at the moment, and it’s a difficult time to get post-docs and first short-term contracts, even if you’re exemplary, publishing in good journals, giving conference papers, teaching. He has to be prepared to move anywhere — are you?

Are the debts formal student loans, which aren’t really a problem (no repayments TIL a specific earning level and written off at 50) or loans from other sources which are a problem, and which are probably incurring a lot of interest. How is he paying the rent on his flat?

One of the main reasons people divorce is money.

You two have VERY different views of money. You want to save, build a foundation and save. He wants to do what he wants now and any consequences will be the future hims problem.

I would imagine he has zero pension. So retirement will be on you. His debt repayments are on you.

Can you imagine your children needing braces? Or do a sports club and needs equipment. Again you, or he will go into debt. And it’s not a case of you being the breadwinner and he being the stay at home. He will be ‘studying’ full time and he won’t be able to look after the kids because, just like his inability to work, it is too much and he needs to concentrate.

I know time is running out for you, but tying yourself to him will mean the rest of you life will be harder.

He gets up at 3pm? Sneers at you for having worked in the corporate world? Doesn't actually want any children. Is mid 30s and hasn't sorted his PhD?

Good luck, because you sound intelligent and sorted.

Does his study qualify him for other careers outside academia? Dirs he have a career plan?

I agree, if the debts are official
student loans that is a bit different.

But he needs to be realistic about future career.

Tne Universities are making unconditional offers and dropping offers at the moment, because they are so desperate for the per capita income.

It is concerning that he criticises your career, too.

Why didn’t he stay living with you but share costs rather than getting another place if his own?

I don't think he's the man to have a child with. He doesn't sound responsible enough. I think you'd end up resenting him.

I agree with others that the type of debt he has really needs clarifying. Does he have student loans for fees and maintenance from student finance or does he have bank loans and credit card debt?

If it's the former then that's absolutely normal for someone studying and does not make him feckless and immature. Unfortunately until a reasonable government scraps the current system, studying means student loans unless you have wealthy family who can fund this.

He won't pay anything back until he is working anyway.

I'd have a serious conversation with him about where this is going and about your fears around your age and fertility.

If he can't do that then you might be doomed but I'm much less inclined to suggest he is not right for you than most other people are.
I'd pick kind, supportive, intelligent and passionate over the type of ex you have described any day.