He's broke - does it matter?

[123Jess]

I've been dating my boyfriend for nearly 2 years. We're very happy in most respects - we get along great, he's always a great emotional support to me and we generally have similar values etc. However, over time it's become clear just how broke he is. It never bothered me that he wasn't wealthy, but now that I want to start building a family, and it's become clear just how broke he is, it's made me think that I'm likely to be breadwinner + caretaker and that scares me a bit.

To further expand, I'm 36 (almost 37 - eek) and he's 35. I had a fairly long corporate career before moving to more a balanced job. I switched because I worked crazy hours and wanted to prioritise meeting someone and starting a family. My previous income allowed me to buy my own apartment and to generally not worry extensively about money. I have also financially supported my parents for many years.

My boyfriend is currently studying for a PhD (he still has 2 years to go), and following that he will likely become a postdoc which is a very low paid role.

I love him and don't want to delay starting a family given our ages. But then if I'm lucky enough to get pregnant and be looking after a baby, I won't be earning much either as my current job is much lower paid than my old job and the maternity benefits are also not great.

I also recently discovered my boyfriend is not only broke but that he also has a lot of debts. He seemed quite calm about that, whereas it worried me. Don't get me wrong, I've been in debt in the past too, but I've worked hard to pay it off and to save. Right now his earnings are zero so the debt is getting bigger.

The other part that annoys me is that he is sometimes critical of my past corporate career (I'd say this is the only thing he criticises me for). He thinks I only did it for the money (which is partly true) and that people who only care about money are shallow (he's never said I'm shallow but he's generally scathing about those in the corporate world and how messed up capitalist society is).

I come from a very low income, working class background so it's true that I thought I needed to work hard and get a good job to earn money (partly to help out my parents who suffer from ill health). It's almost a point of pride for him not to care about money and to be committed to having a job that's more of a vocation, I guess.

But then a vocation doesn't necessarily pay the bills. I've always wanted a big family (I am an only child). My boyfriend comes from a family of 6 children. We'd always talked about having a big family but when we talked about it again last week he said that each child is like a second mortgage and we wouldn't be able to afford it.

Overall, I'm just feeling like a bit of an idiot. I worked so hard in my younger years, and now I feel like I'm getting older and I'm desperate to start a family. It's all I've ever wanted and I feel like I wasted my 20s and early 30s working. But now I'm back to worrying about money again. Many of my friends are able not to work, as their husbands/partners earn enough to keep them and they are happy not working. I'm not saying that I don't want to work per se but the one thing I'm certain that I do want is a family and this feels like another big obstacle, despite how hard I've worked to amass my own savings.

I've been generally so happy in this relationship (we've had a few ups and downs but doesn't everyone) and was really feeling ready to take the next step towards family. But now I'm starting to have doubts and fear.

Sorry for the long post xx

@OneInAMillionYou

he always said he wanted to be an equal parent and really be there for his kids, as many dad's aren't
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This means possibly if push comes to shove when the cash has run out he'll be a stay at home dad whilst you go back to work and take the toddler the the soft play and all the other mums think I'm great for doing the childcare.

he always said he wanted to be an equal parent and really be there for his kids, as many dad's aren't

My Ex was smart enough to know what to say but the reality was very different. He wanted the trappings of a housewife but resented the responsibility of being a breadwinner.

The family life you crave is beyond your bf’s emotional capabilities He’s a big kid, who is ill prepared for grown up life.

Studying in and of itself isn’t necessarily a bad thing, an academic career can be both well paid and offer more flexibility than other jobs. However, how seriously is he taking his studies? Is he just using study to defer work? Because anyone serious about getting an academic job in this climate will be doing anything they can during their PhD to make this possible, looking for teaching on undergraduate or MA programmes is pretty essential if you want a post doc, not getting up at 3pm, you really need to be treating your PhD like a job. Probably a good thing you had this discussion now.

Dump him immediately and actively look for a more suitable father for the kids you so desperately want. You could be pregnant within the year.

I would leave him in a heartbeat as two years is nothing.
I had similar concerns about my partner and he also is one of those nice guys, middle class, loves studying types.

He is also doing a PhD for “interest” hoping that he might get post doc and maybe lecturing onto professor. The difference is he does have high aspirations and also happens to be a qualified Doctor currently lovuming to fund his study. This means he does 3-4 nights of shift work every other week making about 2500-3k a month.

He is not in debt (recently cleared his student loans) and will continue this till he is finished. He did have aspirations to be a neurosurgeon once but the training was difficult to obtain after med school and being a foundation dr.

I am disappointed he did not want to pursue a formal medical career (I am a Surgeon) but he does talk about this now more and more that we want to settle- marry and kids. He is also realising just how hard it will be to have career in academia! almost as bad as neurosurgery.

Can you elaborate on what his area of study is as that is really what is most important.

To be frank you don’t want to start a family with someone who quite frankly sounds like a bit of a feckless manchild.

This is not to do with the fact he is in long term education, a known poorly paid route but his attitude says it all.

He’s a taker. He will take and take and give zilch, leaving you to carry everything should a baby come along and that is a recipe for disaster.

I left my ex who was like this in 2014 and 34. Ten weeks later I met now DH who is amazing and we have baby #3 on the way.

Don’t. Ever. Settle. Your expectations are fair.

I would be concerned. But mainly I wouldn't find him attractive if he wasn't a good provider. He can't afford his high brow principles. That's the long and the short of it.

He could have done everything up to phd by 25 if he’d got his finger out.

Sounds to me the type of man that is studying as they don't actually want a job. It's an acceptable thing to say when people ask what he does for a living.

I think I would feel better about his siutation if he had a part-time job just now. He says his degree is too demanding. But there is a woman in his class who's ahead of him in her project (by at least 6 months Id say) and she works 30 hours a week and has 2 kids under 5.

I'd run a mile personally, he has no work ethic. It sounds like he has never looked after himself and never will, he is hoping that you will look after him.

Why has he got two years to go having been studying for 8 years. He's 36. What has he done since he was 18.

DS is contemplating an academic career.

18 gap yr in NZ, 19-22 first degree 22-23 gap yr working. 23/24 Masters. If does a phd it's two years full or 4 years part-time. Will finish at 28 tops.

Also he is working 10hrs a week during his masters at the gap yr job.

I think yr partner is taking the p big time. Get shot. You are only 37. You are also a good catch.

he always said he wanted to be an equal parent and really be there for his kids, as many dad's aren't

How is that going to happen if he can't get out of bed till 3pm

Personally I think he has never grown up.

Yes he is horrified at the thought of having a child because in his mind he is still a child.

When exactly is he thinking you should try for a child. 10 years time when he has finally finished studying and finally found a job or maybe 20 years from now when he has made some inroads to his debts.

He is being unrealistic
He is 35 not 15.
He is scathing about finances but happy to accept any money thrown his way.

I would run. This isn't going to get any better.

I would give yourself a year to see if you can meet someone who is more grounded in reality or if not look at doing it all on your own via a sperm donor.

The fertility thing is really worrying me. I think we need to have another serious talk about it because he's avoiding the issue right now. I'm so ready for a family yet he thinks we can wait like 5 years which is ridiculous.

I'd sit him down and tell him this. It's quite possible he hasn't really taken it in - some women don't so maybe he hasn't. You need to start TTC ASAP. He will probably run a mile which will at least give you your answer, albeit not the one you want. If he sticks around, ask him seriously if he would be the SAHP. As pp have said, the academic job market is very, very difficult. The pay IMO is good, but that's all relative. It's insecure, very hard work and extremely competitive.

Re. the debts, if it makes any difference student loans generally accrue little interest and you don't have to start paying them back until you earn above a certain threshold which may be why he's not too worried.

I would say it doesn't matter if someone is broke as long as they have ambition and are hard working.

This guy is neither. I don't think he is all that smart either.

I have friends who have done an MA during maternity leave, others who have got their doctorate whilst working a full time job.

Dp condensed a 6year course into 12 months whilst working full time and qualified in a 3rd career
DP did a law degree at night school whilst also qualifying as another equally good career.

Your bf is just lazy

Hmmm. I think you probably need to end this now. He is not going to change. You will end up working to pay the bills etc while he continues studying until the end of time potentially. Why would he change - he is fine as he is in his mind with you paying for everything...

I don't think the area of study matters. I agree with everyone else. If he's serious about becoming an academic he'd be out networking, going to conferences, picking up teaching hours, and going to seminars, not getting up at three. And loads of people combine a PhD with part-time work. The black hole in his early 20s doesn't sound good either. I say this as an academic married to a man with a low-paying artistic career, but he works his socks off at it and pays his way.

I think the debt thing is a bit of a red herring. It's for studying. The majority of the population who have been through HE have a student loan that they're paying back - most people, for life. It's hardly a confession, nor should it be a surprise if he's been in higher education for 5/6 years. It's not like he's told you he's in it up to his neck because of a fancy car, or gambling debts. Its basically an education tax at this point - wrong as that may be. If you refuse to date anyone with a student loan, you are vastly narrowing your dating pool of educated people!
That being said, academia rarely pays well. Post doc / research positions start at about £25,000. Funding is very competitive, and likely to be cut at any point in time. If you want a man to support you financially, he isn't the one for you I'm afraid!

you might want to look into freezing your eggs, cut your losses with your boyfriend & find someone who will be a true partner

Why do you want a baby OP, you've already got one hoofing great manchild!

As pp say, he's oh-so-extravagant with his criticism of the corporate life; but that criticism doesn't pay the council tax, does it. He sounds very immature, like a woke beardy bro student that never grew up. Wait a second....

I'm single and I know for sure that not being on a par with me financially speaking is a no-go for me. I don't just mean income (which begets lifestyle), but attitude as well. It's one of many signs of compatibility.

OP, learn from my mistakes. I too fell in love with a man who didn’t place too much importance on a good income, all he wanted to do was to be happy. Years of studying, he didn’t use any of it. No debt, apart from student loans, but then he ensured he worked in a retail job that didn’t pay enough to qualify for the paying back threshold.
We had one child. He worked part time and I ended up studying, working AND looking after the child. When I ‘made a fuss’ (how he put it), his mother offered to pay for the nursery fees, he refused to get a full time/better paid job.
I qualified in a professional job when my DD started primary. He worked school hours, but refused to get her ready in the mornings, couldn’t do her hair and after school he would put her in front of the telly. I used to get home at 7 and attempt to do homework with her, by then she ws shattered. He refused to do it. I earned 3 times what he did, did all the shopping, cleaning, ironing etc, all of my DD’s appointments. His weekends were his, he was tired, he had to sleep. Till at least 11, so we never did day trips, we all had to work around him. He didn’t like socialising, unless it was with this friends, he got very huffy if I hosted dinner parties, or if I arranged play dates at ours. He was rude and obstructive to other couple’ efforts to socialise, so the family invites dwindled, I used to go on my own.
I had to hide any purchase I made for me or my daughter (we’re talking clothes/make up/books) because he would lose his temper that I’m wasting money we don’t have. Yes, money HE didn’t have, I had money and my purchases were necessities. So I separated our finances and stopped funding him, I only paid 50% of our bills and food. After 9 months he couldn’t take it anymore and left. He had no more fun.

Do you want this life?

Find someone who pulls their weight. You can do better.

No work ethic. No savings. Thinks debt is free money. Doesn't want more than one child. Doesn't even want one child really. Children are a lot of work. He doesn't do work. Children are expensive and you can get free money loans to fund them.

Get rid now. You would be better off with a sperm donor.

He has been clear in words (recently) and actions about who he is and what he wants. He does not want to be a dad of a few children living in a nice place with you having a nice life pulling together to make it all a happy loving place to live.

You already know the truth. A talk might get him to pretend in order to keep you. That doesn't help you. You already know you have to get rid. Do it quick. You want different things out of life. What you want has a deadline.

Don’t marry him and protect your assets
I say this as a former PhD student (funded) who now has a permanent post: it’s a long hard slog to permanent position and the job market is shrinking. He/you might have to move abroad to get a job, or to a city far from where you are.

No support network and new city and small baby is a bad combo

You might have to do this alone in the future

My ex had lots of secret debt as well as known debt. Eventually he started stealing from me to pay the interest on the debt. When I found out I dumped him. Prior to that he strung me along with promises of babies etc.

Your career choices, upbringing etc leave you with nothing to be ashamed of - being financially secure is a great thing.

From everything you have said about him I would tell you to end this & meet someone else. The fact that he wouldn’t agree to start trying for a baby is the biggest warning. He’ll say in 2 years, then in 2 years, then in 2 years & suddenly it’s too late for you.

Try not to stress too much about your age as that is not helpful for your fertility anyway. If you’re very worried you can have a fertility MOT. It’s not a perfect science but they can measure AMH (anti-mullerian hormone) which indicates your egg reserve. Then you could decide whether it might be an investment to freeze some eggs. My egg reserve was good & I had my babies at 36 and 38.

Good luck OP. Try & make a long term life decision on this

I'd be getting rid too.

Principles and deep thinking don’t put food on the table, do they.

He sounds very immature and as if he might be hiding in education rather then coming into the real world. Everyone I know who has stayed in education that long has either had genuine funding for their PhD/masters (not loans) and/or worked as well. Decisions about taking further student loans have not been made lightly.

I guarantee you he will not be anything more than a sperm donor and a financial liability. He won’t find vocation in looking after your child, he’ll most likely be like an extra child.

You clearly are not on the same page in any way. I don’t think you’re even reading the same book!

I have a friend who married somebody who had built up debt, thought he was intellectually superior by doing nothing but study until he was 40 with no real hope of earning money and eventually wouldn't leave the house. They had a child to try to repair things.

Now she's a single mother and has to pay him spousal maintenance. It has properly messed up her finances and she's still the primary carer for her child.

So this thread is setting my alarm bells off like crazy.