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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

He's broke - does it matter?

327 replies

123Jess · 14/01/2019 01:47

I've been dating my boyfriend for nearly 2 years. We're very happy in most respects - we get along great, he's always a great emotional support to me and we generally have similar values etc. However, over time it's become clear just how broke he is. It never bothered me that he wasn't wealthy, but now that I want to start building a family, and it's become clear just how broke he is, it's made me think that I'm likely to be breadwinner + caretaker and that scares me a bit.

To further expand, I'm 36 (almost 37 - eek) and he's 35. I had a fairly long corporate career before moving to more a balanced job. I switched because I worked crazy hours and wanted to prioritise meeting someone and starting a family. My previous income allowed me to buy my own apartment and to generally not worry extensively about money. I have also financially supported my parents for many years.

My boyfriend is currently studying for a PhD (he still has 2 years to go), and following that he will likely become a postdoc which is a very low paid role.

I love him and don't want to delay starting a family given our ages. But then if I'm lucky enough to get pregnant and be looking after a baby, I won't be earning much either as my current job is much lower paid than my old job and the maternity benefits are also not great.

I also recently discovered my boyfriend is not only broke but that he also has a lot of debts. He seemed quite calm about that, whereas it worried me. Don't get me wrong, I've been in debt in the past too, but I've worked hard to pay it off and to save. Right now his earnings are zero so the debt is getting bigger.

The other part that annoys me is that he is sometimes critical of my past corporate career (I'd say this is the only thing he criticises me for). He thinks I only did it for the money (which is partly true) and that people who only care about money are shallow (he's never said I'm shallow but he's generally scathing about those in the corporate world and how messed up capitalist society is).

I come from a very low income, working class background so it's true that I thought I needed to work hard and get a good job to earn money (partly to help out my parents who suffer from ill health). It's almost a point of pride for him not to care about money and to be committed to having a job that's more of a vocation, I guess.

But then a vocation doesn't necessarily pay the bills. I've always wanted a big family (I am an only child). My boyfriend comes from a family of 6 children. We'd always talked about having a big family but when we talked about it again last week he said that each child is like a second mortgage and we wouldn't be able to afford it.

Overall, I'm just feeling like a bit of an idiot. I worked so hard in my younger years, and now I feel like I'm getting older and I'm desperate to start a family. It's all I've ever wanted and I feel like I wasted my 20s and early 30s working. But now I'm back to worrying about money again. Many of my friends are able not to work, as their husbands/partners earn enough to keep them and they are happy not working. I'm not saying that I don't want to work per se but the one thing I'm certain that I do want is a family and this feels like another big obstacle, despite how hard I've worked to amass my own savings.

I've been generally so happy in this relationship (we've had a few ups and downs but doesn't everyone) and was really feeling ready to take the next step towards family. But now I'm starting to have doubts and fear.

Sorry for the long post xx

OP posts:
mimibunz · 14/01/2019 09:42

I live with an academic and work for a university, and my experience is that 35 is too late to for a PhD if he’s planning a career in academia. Those positions are gone to those who already have a couple of post docs and a few papers published. Of course once he’s invested in a PhD then he’s got a great excuse for his debts and a career that didn’t work out, and you will be in your early 40s. I think ultimately we can’t align ourselves with partners who have such different values from ours.

elQuintoConyo · 14/01/2019 09:42

He sounds like a dickhead.

Don't shackle yourself to a dickhead. You're worth more than that.

drowningincustard · 14/01/2019 09:42

I know its probably tough to hear what everyone is saying...
But he really isn't a keeper to have a family with.
Yes you can be in love with him - but that doesn't mean you have to stay with him.
He is not marriage or father material as he has no work ethic or drive to get things done.
If you stay your life will be full of regrets because you won't achieve your potential and life will be way more difficult than it needs to be.
You do have time to find someone else so don't stay with him because of the illusion that you have left it too late.
You will have the support of your friends and family - they are probably tearing their hair out about how you are too good for this guy.

Ethel80 · 14/01/2019 09:43

@PlumpSyrianHamster
Sometimes he doesn't get out of bed until 3. Sometimes I don't either, it's lovely.

I don't think it's always bad to work whilst studying but I do think people often push themselves too much and don't give enough time to their studies.

Look, you're probably all right and he's a feckless loser and I'm just a silly romantic for hoping he'll actually be a great partner for the OP.

Ethel80 · 14/01/2019 09:46

@mimibunz I think the differing values is the real issue here as you say.
Plenty of people manage to bumble along, live cheaply, study for the love of education and do just fine.

If that's not what the OP wants then it is an issue. I guess what's pissing me off about this thread is the awful snobbery because people have chosen a lifestyle that they don't agree with.

CottonTailRabbit · 14/01/2019 09:48

Is his PhD in something fantastically monetisable so he can realistically decide to get a job if he can't get or doesn't want a post-doc? A PhD in robotics or such like?

Bellendejour · 14/01/2019 09:50

I went out with a phd student for a couple of years - but he was finishing his at 28. He was also working art time tutoring and networking like mad to set up career opportunities- even then it was a massive struggle as there were so few openings and even if you got lecturing work it was so part time that you barely made any money (the ones who were able to do this tended to have money/property and were in a place to earn nothing). In the end he ditched academia to become a teacher at a secondary school because it was so unworkable.

This guy doesn’t work hard at his phd, doesn’t sound like he’s networking, has dismissive approach towards finances/adult life, doesn’t want to commit to living with you/having children and seems content to live his lazy, low earning, perpetual student, manchild lifestyle forever. This just isn’t what you want or need at your stage of life and when you want to start a family.

At 36 you still have options - you could look into the sperm donor process whilst dating. Consider going back to finance job if you can bear it to get better salary/maternity while you date/ttc (or don’t if you feel you have enough savings to manage). Get a fertility test to see how good things are looking - I did this at your age, got great results and conceived naturally this year at 41 (appreciate that doesn’t happen for everyone). Like PP said, you are successful, have own property and savings, you are a catch! This guy really isn’t.

I had a lot of ups and downs in relationships around the same age as you and had the same fears around fertility. But I didn’t want to stay in anything/with anyone out of fear. I was lucky to find the right person and get pregnant, but then again I was able to do that because I gave myself the opportunity to. You have lots of options from finding someone else to sperm donor and I think they are all better than this guy.

Good luck Flowers

Hadalifeonce · 14/01/2019 09:51

I believe that relationships only really work well when you generally have similar values in life, especially the big stuff.
Money/work are part of the big stuff. You obviously have very different views on these 2 areas, and they will continue to bug you. Think about where you want to be in 5 year's time, if it's working to bring in enough money to live on for your perpetual student to continue to study, and for childcare costs, then go for it. If that's not what you want, you have to get out of this situation asap.

explodingkitten · 14/01/2019 09:51

He would have been the first on the reject pile where I worked (as a secretary, didn't do the decision making). They look at age and experience and are very interested in number of papers written. They didn't care if someone was nice or well dressed. Studying 8 years+ would also be very problematic, they want people who can focus on hard work. He won't get anywhere but I doubt that he will discuss that with you. He also isn't living with you and doesn't want a baby. I think that this relationship has run it's course. I hope that you find what will make you happy.

StarJumpsandaHalf · 14/01/2019 09:53

I think his financial debts are a red herring. The lack of work ethic and hypocrisy in despising a system that’s supporting him would be what bothers me. Time that could be spent progressing his studies, organising his life and supporting himself, he prefers to spend in bed. That’s not the sign of someone you can depend on and parenthood can be very challenging indeed.

You say you love him OP but then what you say about the relationship comes across as somewhat lukewarm. Are you sure you’re not just worrying about ‘sunken costs’ with regard to your biological clock.

Is he the man you want ties with for the rest of your life? Or is he just a man you quite like who could give you a child?

I imagine the posts on this thread are giving you a lot of food for thought.

altiara · 14/01/2019 09:53

If he can’t get out of bed until 3pm some days, I’d be worried he’s not actually going to finished his PhD. He’s already behind and you’ve said it might be another 3-4 years. So his CV at age 40 is empty. Don’t think employers are going to rush to recruit him.
His career and earnings timeline sounds incompatible with settling down any time soon. He’ll be paying student debts off until he’s a pensioner.

ravenmum · 14/01/2019 09:54

the awful snobbery because people have chosen a lifestyle that they don't agree with
A snobbery that this bloke is displaying openly and unpleasantly.

NicolaStart · 14/01/2019 09:54

Ethel: the problem is that he is looking to the OP to fund their family, whilst himself being snobby about her corporate earnings.

It is hardly snobbery to have an issue with that.

ErickBroch · 14/01/2019 10:04

When I was doing my masters I struggled with PhD students - many (not all!!) of them really just revelled in never having to 'get a job' and just stay in constant academia. It sounds like your partner is like this, I am not sure I could stay with someone like that as at this age I cannot ever see that changing.

However, my uncle has a PhD, became a Professor at a University and earns a massive salary - is this not an option?

The debts would worry me more than him being low-income.

TaMereAPoilDevantPrisu · 14/01/2019 10:06

is this not an option

Not in today's über-competitive market with no publications, no conference experience, no teaching experience and no relevant work experience.

Waddsup12 · 14/01/2019 10:12

^^ this, it's not cushy, la la land anymore...

gamerchick · 14/01/2019 10:14

@PlumpSyrianHamster
Sometimes he doesn't get out of bed until 3. Sometimes I don't either, it's lovely

I think it's pretty obvious going on your posts you have a similar attitude to this bloke and that's why you're defending him. Someone nearing 40 who's always studied and nothing else is not attractive.

IWannaSeeHowItEnds · 14/01/2019 10:14

I'd get rid - you are at completely different life stages. The sad fact is, he could waste all your fertile years and you could break up anyway and he could pop out a baby with someone else when he is in his mid 40's. You don't have the luxury of waiting for him to grow up.
If you are not quite ready to end things, at the very least you need to stop financing more than your fair share. As others have said, it's easy to be scathing about earning money and working for the man, when someone else is picking up the bills (you and the tax payer).
Don't marry him and don't combine finances, even if you do have a baby together. I think it shows you how life would pan out, that when he lived with you, you financed his life.

Waddsup12 · 14/01/2019 10:14

I'd be looking for recent work, checking his registration, asking how his supervisor thinks he's getting on...

Something about this doesn't sit right and I sit here with a truckload of student loans and odd courses!

AutumnCrow · 14/01/2019 10:16

my uncle has a PhD, became a Professor at a University and earns a massive salary - is this not an option?

Not a cat in hell's chance.

Anyway, as others have said, it's the lack of shared values that's the issue. Without shared values, any relationship is pretty doomed.

Racecardriver · 14/01/2019 10:16

Don’t marry him. Have your baby. Let him be the one who stays home and go back to your old career.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 14/01/2019 10:18

I think this manchild has chosen academia to avoid working. He probably sees that as beneath him anyway or for little people.

What I cannot understand here Jess is what on earth attracted you to such an individual in the first place. Your values and his are pole aparts really and will never come together. Did you see him as somehow a project and or fixer upper?.

ItsalmostSummer · 14/01/2019 10:18

So many red flags. I think you’ll be paying for him and the kids you have with him for the rest of your life. He won’t do anymore than what he’s doing now IMO. Good luck with that OP.

TaMereAPoilDevantPrisu · 14/01/2019 10:21

TBF I can see the attraction if you've been dating arsehole banker types. OP sit down and really ask him what his post-PhD plan is. What will he do if the postdoc plan doesn't work out? what age does he plan to retire at? What if his career takes him abroad?

user1479305498 · 14/01/2019 10:25

There is many a successful career woman who has a partner/husband keeping home fires burning , sometimes with a bit of part time in a field that interests them, however it takes a woman to be prepared to accept she will be slogging away outside the home for a very long time. I think if you really love him then you have to prepare yourself for that likelihood and probably gthink about a corporate well paid job again , get into it before pregnancy so you get the perks etc

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