He's broke - does it matter?

[123Jess]

I've been dating my boyfriend for nearly 2 years. We're very happy in most respects - we get along great, he's always a great emotional support to me and we generally have similar values etc. However, over time it's become clear just how broke he is. It never bothered me that he wasn't wealthy, but now that I want to start building a family, and it's become clear just how broke he is, it's made me think that I'm likely to be breadwinner + caretaker and that scares me a bit.

To further expand, I'm 36 (almost 37 - eek) and he's 35. I had a fairly long corporate career before moving to more a balanced job. I switched because I worked crazy hours and wanted to prioritise meeting someone and starting a family. My previous income allowed me to buy my own apartment and to generally not worry extensively about money. I have also financially supported my parents for many years.

My boyfriend is currently studying for a PhD (he still has 2 years to go), and following that he will likely become a postdoc which is a very low paid role.

I love him and don't want to delay starting a family given our ages. But then if I'm lucky enough to get pregnant and be looking after a baby, I won't be earning much either as my current job is much lower paid than my old job and the maternity benefits are also not great.

I also recently discovered my boyfriend is not only broke but that he also has a lot of debts. He seemed quite calm about that, whereas it worried me. Don't get me wrong, I've been in debt in the past too, but I've worked hard to pay it off and to save. Right now his earnings are zero so the debt is getting bigger.

The other part that annoys me is that he is sometimes critical of my past corporate career (I'd say this is the only thing he criticises me for). He thinks I only did it for the money (which is partly true) and that people who only care about money are shallow (he's never said I'm shallow but he's generally scathing about those in the corporate world and how messed up capitalist society is).

I come from a very low income, working class background so it's true that I thought I needed to work hard and get a good job to earn money (partly to help out my parents who suffer from ill health). It's almost a point of pride for him not to care about money and to be committed to having a job that's more of a vocation, I guess.

But then a vocation doesn't necessarily pay the bills. I've always wanted a big family (I am an only child). My boyfriend comes from a family of 6 children. We'd always talked about having a big family but when we talked about it again last week he said that each child is like a second mortgage and we wouldn't be able to afford it.

Overall, I'm just feeling like a bit of an idiot. I worked so hard in my younger years, and now I feel like I'm getting older and I'm desperate to start a family. It's all I've ever wanted and I feel like I wasted my 20s and early 30s working. But now I'm back to worrying about money again. Many of my friends are able not to work, as their husbands/partners earn enough to keep them and they are happy not working. I'm not saying that I don't want to work per se but the one thing I'm certain that I do want is a family and this feels like another big obstacle, despite how hard I've worked to amass my own savings.

I've been generally so happy in this relationship (we've had a few ups and downs but doesn't everyone) and was really feeling ready to take the next step towards family. But now I'm starting to have doubts and fear.

Sorry for the long post xx

Don't really understand the whole perpetual student lifestyle.

But basic facts are this. He is currently a student and will be for the next few years. After which he will apparently get a post doc which should be about 30k, by this time he will be approaching 40. He may then go on to be a lecturer where if he's lucky will pay around 45k. By this time his debts will be even more, his credit rating will be junk and he will start from zero savings.

If you start a family within three years, he will only just have started his post doc. By the time he is ready to even apply for a mortgage he will be mid 40s and will have no choice but to opt for a 20 year deal. This will be expensive, and coupled with his student debt repayment means his salary wont go very far.

Basically he has left it too late to have any meaningful career as he wont actually start until he is way past 40.

You need to end this now, a real child is tough enough, without having to take care of an adult baby too.

OP frankly you don't really have the time to fuck about if you want babies. You'll be saddled with the eternal student forever hating his guts if you stay with him.

It's up to you but he's not a good catch long term.

I think you're just wasting your time with this professional student man child.

It is easy for him to look down his nose at the establishment while taking from the same establishment.

I knew a few people like him who either stayed in school for years to avoid having to work and then they would be on the dole for years as they couldn't find work. The most comical ones were the anti government anarchist types who would protest and such but never worked a day in their life and lived off the government they proclaimed to hate.

He could have had part time jobs or teaching positions but he doesn't because he doesn't want to work.

I certainly wouldn't have a baby with him either.

Cut your loses and get out there and see if you can find another responsible adult who is interested in a relationship and children.

Actually VelourVoyager gives good perspective on my questions about his loans / funding, and gives valuable insight.

My Mum has a friend who is a serial boffin. Views on capitalism, retreats into ever more esoteric research, webs nothing. And then, since his father had left the house to him rather than his mother (not married, lived together 50 years, raised 3 sons) he evicted his mum and sold the house to fund yet more of his aimless escape.

Sorry, my Mum has a friend whose SON is a serial boffin.

Oh, and his being happy to live on a pittance and his distain for possessions and capital will suddenly vanish when you divorce, when he will suddenly be keen to screw you for every penny of your hard-earned money he can (while still loudly voicing his socialist principles to a new audience)

This is difficult.

For someone who on paper is intelligent, he isn’t thinking very practically.

You’re 36. IMO, you should have a baby now because that is what you want. Therefore either:

1. he gets with the programme and decides whether he wants to have a baby with you now and additionally gets on with whatever academic qualification he’s currently getting, with a clearly defined end date and a plan of how to actually earn money from a job at the end.

Or

2. go via donor sperm, ditch the man child who refuses to grow up. It’s all very well for him to say “wait” but his fertility is not going to decline soon, yours probably is. Anyway it will be cheaper for you to support yourself and a baby than it would be to support him as well.

I'm confused about the professional/perpetual student slurs. What exactly is wrong with higher education and getting a PHD?

I'd pick kind, supportive, intelligent and passionate over the type of ex you have described any day

So would I. I did. But you need kind, supportive, intelligent, passionate, realistic, forthcoming, and not a pisstaker. This guy fails on the last three counts, and doesn't sound very supportive either. And in fact if he can't work and do a PhD at the same time, I'd question his smarts too.

Seriously, this guy is never realistically going to make it as an academic. What's his plan B?

He thinks I only did it for the money (which is partly true) and that people who only care about money are shallow
This is not a good sign. What's happening here is that he's defensive about not being a success - working at a pizza place until he was 26 etc. So he's got a nice story worked out abut how he's deliberately not joining in with nasty capitalism (rather than just not being able to do so). That's understandable. What's more worrying is that he's defending himself against possible criticism by attacking you. Criticising you to draw attention away from his flaws. Not very nice.

It doesn't sound like his views, attitude and lifestyle is compatible with starting a family. You would be a worried mess. At best, you'd have to go back to doing your high paying job and he'd look after the kids but it sounds like he would just come up with an excuse why he couldn't or would be do inept that you'd have to put your children in full time childcare. If the woman in his course can look after her kids as well as do an almost full time job, then he's able to do the same. I'd find him so frustrating that I'd soon lose any love I had for him if I had to coparent or join my life with him.

You're still young enough to easily start again op.

Nothing is wrong with higher ed and PhDs
It’s just that the guy is 35, with a 36yo woman who he knows wants kids. He needs therefore to contribute.

“What exactly is wrong with higher education and getting a PHD?”

Nothing. No one has said that that is per se a problem. RTFT.

Nowt wrong with getting a PhD. Lots wrong with getting a PhD in your mid-thirties while refusing to work alongside, not doing any of the other stuff that goes with doing a PhD, having no proper work track record and no plan other than a pie-in-the-sky plan to get a post-doc, while living off your girlfriend and stringing her along about babies.

Plus he's led you up the garden path with a load of hot air, promising you a baby when he clearly has no real plans to have one.

Feckless Manchild Alert! I wouldn't be bothered by someone who's broke if they showed they had drive and a good work ethic and were willing to work hard together. This guy is a dosser. My sister did a master's at OU whilst working FT and having two kids. My dad did one whilst working FT, only paid earner as my mum was SAHM, a mortgage and two kids.

He will never be ready to have kids, too. He can't even be responsible for himself, FFS.

Just NO. I'd go for a sperm donor personally. Far less trouble.

There threads on here from women who procreated with men like this are legion and every one of them is totally miserable and saddled down with the millstone lazy person.

Wake up! This man will never change.

I have a bil who did this multi degree thing. He got married and had 2 dcs. Living off his wife. Nagging my elderly mil to childmind for free when his wife was at work so he could study.
By the time he finished he was early 40s. Went for loads of lecture posts and eventually learnt he was too old. No one wanted a middle aged man who had never worked even though he had 3 degrees and a doctorate.
He is now a staff nurse (which he hates) but he did his nurse training in his 20s before leaveing for another degree. He had to complete the return to practice course in order to update his nursing qualification.
Basically he didn't think about anyone but himself despite starting a family. He only has a house because his parents laid for the deposit and top ups when he co tinued to have no income.
My point is he took so long to do so many degrees he was unemployable as far as university lecturers were concerned so don't expect your bf to find work easily.

Ate you sure he's actually doing a FT PhD?

Obv, it depends on subject & supervision but his timescale sounds "generous".

My DH limped through a PhD, so I have empathy, but you have lots of red flags here.

He's the type that, if you were to get pregnant, he'll try to coerce you into an abortion you don't want because the timing's not right, we can try next year, etc.

Sorry, but nearly 37 is not 'young' when it comes to fertility. At 40, some women will easily conceive a healthy baby and go to term, but it's not a given, nor is it over 40.

I'd get rid of him asap.

@NicolaStart Thanks but I have RTFT.

I'm not saying this bloke is Mr responsible and that this will all work out perfectly but I'm less keen to write him off I guess.

There's nothing wrong with being a mature student and actually working a lot whilst studying isn't always the best idea. I've watched many people prioritise work and money over their degrees and fuck them up as a result.
If he can live on his student finance alone and lives fairly cheaply then good for him as long as that means he really is working hard on his PHD and not sleeping all day and watching re-runs of Buffy.

Whether that's compatible with the OP's timeline and needs is another matter and I've already said that's a serious conversation that needs to be had and he needs to really listen.

Well, he is sleeping all day as it happens... If he's serious about becoming an academic, is he going to conferences? trying to publish? Networking at his department? Getting teaching experience? Blogging about his research? Getting admin experience?

@TaMereAPoilDevantPrisu If he was truly a pisstaker wouldn't he have stayed living rent free with the OP and continued to live off her. He didn't though, he stayed with her between tenancies then got his own place again.

He sounds overly idealistic and a bit of a dreamer which could be annoying and frustrating and maybe not the best bloke to have a child with but maybe he is. None of us actually know him and there are some really judgmental people here!

If he can live on his student finance alone and lives fairly cheaply then good for him as long as that means he really is working hard on his PHD and not sleeping all day and watching re-runs of Buffy.

But he's not. She says he sleeps till 3pm often, he's taking eight years to do the PhD. Cannot believe anyone would entertain a person who hasn't worked in years and years! Some people really have no standards.

It's an outstanding idea to work whilst studying, it really gives you an edge in the job market. Who wants to a hire a middle-aged person who has no work history beyond a couple of pizza places over a decade ago?

My teen daughter and her teen boyfriend have more drive than this guy!

Exactly, Ta.

OP, I hope you don’t mind me saying this, but at your age, if you know you want DC then you probably just need to try for them and not get hung up on money. You’ve shared that he’s nice - that might have to be enough at this point