Cliche - attractive au pair...

[ImpyInk]

Right, new name and I'm also posting this on behalf of a friend (who's here with me), who wants the MN view on this but is worried about outing and doesn't want to become a MN member herself.

My friend, who I'll call Anne, and her DH, who I'll call Mark, have been married 18 years, have 3 kids and are basically soulmates. However, pressures of work and kids and exhaustion meant that their sex life had dwindled a lot in the last 4-5 years. Maximum of once a month in the last 2 years... until, in the summer, they got an au pair. Au pair is absolutely fantastic and Anne loves her. She's also very attractive and is in her late 20s, and Mark (early 40s) clearly finds her so. Suddenly, Mark's sex drive is through the roof. Anne and Mark having sex several times a week and Mark clearly also having "me time" fantasising about the au pair as well. Anne is pleased about sex life, but worried that she should be worried. There is no real threat - the au pair has a girlfriend, Mark is always completely appropriate with her in person, etc etc. Au pair is happy and unaware that Mark fancies the pants off her.

Perspectives? Should Anne worry or not?
TIA

Mark should be insisting that the au pair go. He is attracted to her, that is clearly going to create friction in their marriage and he might do/say something inappropriate to his employee.

Whatever else happens, whatever other issues about their marriage this brings up, they need to let her go and investigate local child minders.

Woah there....

Thanks for the responses.

I think most of you are way off the mark with the situation. If you saw it from where I do, you wouldn't be implying it's disgusting. It's only Mark's honesty about this which even highlights it. He could have lied and no one would be any the wiser. Was Anne wrong to ask?

Ummm... didn't Anne ask because she suspected? Their sex life went from 0 to 60 because he's living under the same roof as his crush.

Well, Mumsnet is very LTB, so it might have been a mistake if 'Anne' wants simple reassurance! But she gets that from me, for sure. Assuming she and 'Mark' get on as well as me and mine, all is well.

The issues about Anne's self esteem are well pointed out.

But Mark is clear that he does love and fancy Anne, it's just that having this woman around has sparked up his libido.

Great that it's all in the open.

BUT for me, if my bloke was turned on by other women (instead of me) before he has sex with me, I would feel like a wank sock.

No, I would not be ok with this.

If you saw it from where I do, you wouldn't be implying it's disgusting

But that's the whole point of an internet forum - we don't see it from your subjective perspective. You give us the cold, hard facts and then we give your own interpretation. If you don't want that interpretation because you can see it holistically, then why post if on an internet forum?

I am not sure all these posts are way off the mark, perhaps Anne doesn't want to face up to what Mark is. A letch.

My sympathies are with the nameless au pair. What a horrible place to work.

If Anne is happy to be used like this, then Anne can carry on asking as many questions as she likes provided everyone keeps their eyes closed in bed. Grim.

They’re both using ‘the au pair’ as a sex aid, whether she knows it or not.

This is her workplace.

This is a really twisted dynamic.
The DH is using the wife for sex because he's getting turned on by the nanny, not because he actually fancies the wife.
Yuck.

He could have lied and no one would be any the wiser

Or he could stop being a dirty old lech in the first place.

Was Anne wrong to ask?

No but IMO she was wrong to just accept the situation.

Thanks Spoon.

Anne is interested in all perspectives, but yes she largely wanted reassurance.

For context (and I'm not just saying this because she's my mate) she is very attractive, intelligent and successful herself. She is also very considerate of the au pair (someone asked we give her a name - OK, we can call her Jo) and values her highly. She doesn't really consider this to have much to do with her directly.

After 18 years of marriage fancying someone else is not a big deal. It doesn't necessarily mean someone would act on it. If it kickstarts a lagging sex life then great. BUT she's an employee, he told his wife about so all the sex and wanking just becomes horrible. Especially for the au pair. She's not a sexual object. Mark has turned her into one. Your friend needs to protect the au pair from this and let her go unfortunately or bin the husband.

Mark is kind of damned either way.

Clearly he didn’t volunteer the fact that he found the AP attractive, but if he’d lied when asked (and given Anne thinks his attraction is obvious) then we’d have a different thread about how dishonest he was being etc.

Of course he’s going to find an attractive woman attractive - there’d be a lot of advertising firms going bust if men in general didn’t. He sounds like he’s behaving as he should, at least in terms of his interactions with the AP and he’s being (painfully) honest. He doesn’t appear to be channelling his libido anywhere other than where he “should” (ie towards Anne).

This is one of those where, IMO, Anne should just not have asked/pushed. Has Anne (honestly) never fantasised about someone else? I call BS if she claims not.

There is no real threat - the au pair has a [boyfriend]

I disagree with this - particularly if Mark's attraction is at the level you describe already.

It is scientifically proven that people have a tendency to become attracted to people they spent a lot of time with/are exposed to in close confines. ( I should add that all the stuff I've read on this relates to heterosexual people living with/closely exposed to heterosexual people of the opposite sex. I don't know if it also applies to same sex relationships)

Apparently, it is to do with biological reproductive needs. If you are a cave man in the wild and the only other woman for miles is the cave woman next door, it is biologically important that you are attracted to her.

It is one of the reasons why in Big Brother relationships form between unlikely couples - this intensive exposure. Same for progs like Strictly Come Dancing.

It is not impossible therefore that over time the au pair may become attracted to him. In fact situationally it is highly likely due to frequent exposure and close proximity.

Same for him even if he wasn't attracted to start with - but that's not this case. He is already really really attracted.

If it is left to run its course, it is inevitable he'll be more and more flirty with her, they will get closer, he will try it on when he gets a chance and the only question will be the morality and/or level of reciprocation of the au pair. Does she want to play or not?

I'd find a new au pair and sooner rather than later.

Anne is interested in all perspectives, but yes she largely wanted reassurance

This wasn't the way the OP was phrased though. The OP asked for all perspectives. If you'd asked for reassurance in the OP, I think people might have been kinder.

Changedname3456 - fantasising about someone is fine. Fantasising about and employee who shares your home? Not so good.

Anne can be the most intelligent and beautiful woman in the world but if she is married to someone with zero respect for her then it makes no difference.

If I was Anne I would not be used like this! If I was Anne I would realise how lovely I was, and that I deserve better than to be at Mark's disposal whilst he fantasies about the au-pair, and openly discusses his 'me time' about her. It is utterly grim. Your poor friend.

OK, so what is the solution?

Anne doesn't want to ask Jo (au pair's new "name") to leave, and wouldn't know how to ask her if she did. Jo would be gutted.

And has Mark actually done anything wrong? All his "crimes" are, as someone pointed out earlier, thought crimes, or crimes of over-honesty.

Most blokes admire other women who they find attractive, and probably less so, do women. The etiquette is not to be telling the other half and making it completely obvious, especially when the other women is living in the same household.

To be honest if I was your friend, I would feel very uncomfortable knowing my husband and I were having sex and that he was basically getting more aroused because of the women in the other bedroom instead of me. I think the issue is that he has no consideration for her feelings at all and I question why he has been so honest which has had the effect it has

For context (and I'm not just saying this because she's my mate) she is very attractive, intelligent and successful herself.

If you are talking about affair risk, this is completely immaterial and the fact you've posted that shows a high level of naivety!

It is newness and excitement that is the main fuel for an affair - plus ego boosting if the affair partner is a lot younger or attractive themselves. No one having an affair sits around saying "well my wife is more successful so I won't bother".

It is not a tick box exercise of Wife: scores 9 for attractiveness, 8 for intelligence and Mistress: scores 10 for attractivness, 7 and so on.

FFS! If this was their daughter and her older employer and her wife were using his sexual fantasies of her to kick start their sex lives would she be happy? I bet not.

“But Mark is clear that he does love and fancy Anne, ”

It’s not clear from his actions at ALL.
You’ve said Mark clearly finds the au pair attractive. So it’s clear to all, aupar included. Why on earth do you (who don’t live there) insist she can’t tell? Of course you can tell. Mark isn’t hiding it. He’s fucking Anne because he wants to fuck the aupar but can’t. This doesn’t make Mark a great guy. It makes him a fucking creep.

A great guy would realise something has gone wrong in his marriage and start talking about it to his wife or get counselling. All he’s done is admit to his sexual fantasies when directly confronted by his wife.

Yeah, creep.

Is it really "turning someone into a sexual object" to fantasise about someone? It's not actually them, is it?

fantasising about someone is fine. Fantasising about and employee who shares your home? Not so good

I completely agree.