is porn ok?

[lucyellensmum]

following on from another thread where someone has made a point about her DP watching pay per view porn on the TV ( i didnt want to hijack the thread so starting a fresh one) behind her back. I just wondered how people felt about it. I personally do not have a problem with porn (nothing heavy - just waiting for the feminists to pounce), as long as it is of consenting adults and is shared. I would however have a huge problem if my DP watched it while i wasnt around. As for internet porn, that is a big no no and besides, DP doesnt get chance to go on the putor cos im always on MN Actually, i can't understand why a man (or woman) would want to sit alone watching, well you know

So really just a poll of peoples thoughts and ideas. Does it degrade women or can it be empowering?

roffle.

I remember a school trip to Rhodes, and the enormous amount of fertility statues on sale in gift shops. The poor teacher didn't know what to do with all these schoolkids buying erect penises made of marble as souvenirs,

LEM-it didnt upset me,i just wanted to explain my xh's actions in the right context,ie that i didnt divorce him just for watching porn on sky,tbh by that stage i couldnt have cared less what he did,it was the lying/stealing etc etc,and the face he was watching it because he wasnt getting any from me as i'd just had a baby(and cos he was smelly).

anyway,that was my ex husband,not my dp.my dp is wonderful and lovely

SueBaroo and Boco: so, if I read you right (and apologies if I'm wrong) you do select your coffee, chocolate, new clothes etc from fair-trade or ethical labels. Good for you. I do the same with porn. As do a lot of porn consumers.
Now I respect anyone and everyone's right to find "sexually explicit material produced for recreation not education" - that's the definition of porn I use, if you have another definition you are using, please say so... - boring or a turn off. What I don't accept is people using the word 'porn' to mean "wierd dirty stuff that is both made and consumed by people who are not normal and which no "decent" person could possibly enjoy"

It's interesting that, whenever porn is discussed on here, people immediately presume that it's the "industry" porn which is being referred to, with its plethora of airbrushed, hyper-norked, collagen-injected, pneumatic babes of all shapes and colours.

A lot of blokes aren't into that. They want to look at real women. Other men's wives, mainly (and there are sites devoted to that very market). There is porn out there which attempts to look more "realistic", sometimes claiming it is produced by "amateurs", although one has to ask oneself how amateur they really are and how many people (women especially) would actually want to put their grunting, sweating and wheezing up on the Internet for a hobby.

So is that better or worse?

From discussion I've had I gather it's this grey area which leads into overlap with the more seedy online flirting and "date" sites, which is where it gets dangerous.

I've never found pornography of any sort as interesting as the "real thing" - I remember at school being faintly embarrassed when people were passing round the jizz-mags (it was an all boys' school) and I found the thought of somebody else's spunk-stained fingers having touched the pages more than a little seedy. Not saying I've never looked at it, but it's 2-dimensional in a very literal sense! It's not even like the Porsche in the showroom analogy mentioned above - after all, you can at least stroke and sniff that if you need to...

UQD: I've seen you on other threads posting from a very rational viewpoint. So where's your rational evidence that "real" women are not exhibitionists and don't want to pose for 'amateur' style porn? And, apart from the threat it poses to the most paranoid of monogamists, what's so "dangerous" about online flirting and dating, given that not everyone is in, or wants to be in, a monogamous relationship?

Wow, some VERY chaste folk round here! I agree with whoever said that almost all men look at porn in some form or other, my dp is an IT technician too and he has never serviced a mans computer where there hasn't been a hidden stash of naughtiness, either.

I think even the most technologically challenged man finds ways and means of covering up his tracks if their partner is so bonecrushingly controlling and insecure as to police their internet use (and/or thoughts by the looks of things)

I've never been with a man who hasn't watched porn, I've always discussed sexuality freely with my partners and let me tell you, you learn a LOT. Somebody said they thought that men thinking about other women was cheating, and very unhealthy. I think it's a damn sight more unhealthy to put a wedding ring on someone's finger and expect all the synapses in their brain to rip themselves out and reattach themselves in "Super-monogamy mode!"

Men are visually stimulated- even if he isn't watching porn, he still has eyes to see women on the street or on tv. (Perhaps you should poke them out, just to be safe) I find the idea that my dp should get ALL his jollies from me 24/7/365 far too much to live up to! I commend anyone who attempts to satisfy their partner in EVERY way (and solely occupy their every fantasy) for the rest of their days, but forgive me if I think it sounds a tad delusional.

And there's a whole world out there, not just big bosomed orange women, as unquietdad pointed out. I certainly don't think there's anything wrong with exploring your sexuality in a safe clean way which leads to std's or unwanted pregnancies.

I find the sweeping generalisation that all/most women in porn are doing it against their will/have been pushed into it/were former prostitutes/are doing it to support a drug habit absolute bollocks, and I don't think you can gain a full picture of the industry via one possibly biased documentary.

There are thousands of porn actors and actresses out there having a bloody good time doing what they do, making decent amounts of money and loving the attention and adoration they get from the fans.

I think most decent people who flicked on a porn film that showed people NOT enjoying themselves, not appearing as if they wanted to be there, or looking drug addled, worn and seedy would soon stop watching it in favour of the plethora of superior quality material out there. Unless their favourite website was dodgylookingcrackwhoreswhodontwannabehere.com

In conclusion, I need toast. And I have no idea why I ranted about this at 7.30 in the morning. Blame my bladder, it woke me up.

I respect anyone and everyone's right to find "sexually explicit material produced for recreation not education" - that's the definition of porn I use, if you have another definition you are using, please say so... - boring or a turn off. What I don't accept is people using the word 'porn' to mean "wierd dirty stuff that is both made and consumed by people who are not normal and which no "decent" person could possibly enjoy"

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So did anyone actually say that last bit? The only person who has brought up the ideas of porn not being 'nice' or 'decent' is you madamez. For some reason you feel compelled to repeatedly point out that people use and enjoy porn. I think I even said that's fine, it's a free country.
I just don't know why it can't also be accepted that some people choose not to use porn because they find it an unacceptable thing.
It just seems that the middle ground is being ignored. If I and my husband don't use porn we are delusional, repressed and obssessed with 'niceness', and we must believe that people who do use porn are completely degenerate lascivious animals.

Could it not just be that we believe sex is private, special and we want to try and be as faithful to each other as we possibly can in all aspects of our relationship, and that we also have no interest in what goes on in other peoples bedrooms?

BTW, banabump, I never said that I try and control Dh's thoughts - I think I even said I knew I could do no such thing. I simply said that while our thoughts might be a grey area, actively using porn, to us, isn't a grey area at all.

"BIG difference between having an erotic imagination and watching porn I think. I think you maybe watch the latter if you have none of the former?"

I think it contributes to a poverty of imagination, yes. I don't like the way pro-porn arguments always try to paint people who are uncomfortable about the ethics of porn as people with no libidos, or who have a problem with sex. The opposite is far more likely to be true, in my experience; people who use porn regularly, come to need it and that hardly paints a picture of a healthy sexuality. I love sex, but think porn is a barrier to true intimacy and a very dodgy business.

And in every interview I've ever seen or read with people in the porn industry they always say when they 'make love' with their partners it's very different to what they do for work. They make a clear distinction themselves that one is pretend and the other is real.

This thread is very enlightening and interestng.
I think that is a good point Monkeytrousers. I have a very active erotic imagination, and it is very powerful for me, and useful.

I dont use porn, but admittedly, we had Sky and there was a time where it was free "tasters" on playboy tv, now and then, and I have seen that, and it does not appeal to me.

But, I must admit that I have had what I think could be classified as cybersex with my husband (not sure whether this is the right definition or not). He works away sometimes for long periods, and we have a webcam too. typing out what we would like to do to eachother can sometimes be the only way for us to be intimate and keep that side of our relationship going. Needs a good imagination for it, too. I would not approve if he were to do this with somebody in an adult chat room, I find this WORSE then porn, as it takes two to tango, and porn is one sided, but in a chat room there is another PERSON taking part. I am sure he sometimes uses porn when I am not around, and I dont really mind that.

Not sure what I am trying to say, but there should be only 2 people in a relationship, and porn is not a real threat, but in my opinion has little to do there.

But every relationship is different, some enjoy porn together, and some dont.

I dont think Suebaroo comes across as somebody who wants to control her partners thoughts, but somebody in a strong and loving relationship with a healthy opinion on porn and what brings real closeness.

My ha'pennorth.

I reckon porn is a really useful barometer of how your relationship's navigation.

Occasionally using it solo - means part of sexual life is private, but it doesn't involve other people. That's OK if you can respect each other's privacy, but if it winds you up, does it also annoy you if he doesn't like you opening his post or reading his emails (and whose is the problem)?

Using it together - sounds like a lot of honesty there and willingness to discuss things you might otherwise both find embarrasing.

Obsessive use to exclusion of partner - your sexual relationship is troubled, but the porn is just one indicator - it's almost certainly not the cause.

Cybersex with partners - he wants to have an affair, but probably has too low self-esteem to do for real.

Use of gay porn - he's bi or gay. I swear no heterosexual bloke would look at that stuff, even for curiosity's sake (bleagh).

Using the more bizarre stuff - well, draw your own conclusions.

Reckon SueBaroo's DH is discrete and quick on the "delete history" button myself...

roars with laughter

Sample computer conversation with dh -

"Sue, what's my password? And how do I get the smilies on the e-mail again?"
If he's fibbing about being a computer eejit to that degree, I think secret porn's the last of my worries

Suebaroo you know your hubby best and if both of you are happy and content in your relationship then there's absolutely no harm in having the view you have, obviously.

I suppose I'm just an old hippy, and take a thoroughly opposite view on all this in my relationships, where we are very open, unashamedly kinky and experimental, porn is an option available to us in amongst many many others to have fun.

I have to say though, I think that saying watching porn means a lack of erotic imagination is a very sweeping statement and I don't personally agree. I've watched a fair bit of porn over the years but it isn't an and/or thing. Surely just because you have a good imagination doesn't mean you shun all regular movies and books too, in favour of a good daydream?

I've written erotic literature published on websites, been a phone sex operator for a while, kept several boyfriends and the odd girlfriend more than entertained in the bedroom, and I don't think I could have done all that if I had no erotic imagination/had to turn on a porn film. I suppose for me, porn is just another topic. Like "I fancy a laugh let's watch a comedy", if I feel horny I might watch some porn. Or I might leap on my boyfriend instead. And/or.

Please don't tell me sex toys are the devils work too, I'm feeling rather deviant already...

Have to weigh in on the whole 'if you watch porn you must have no imagination' thing.
I have an excellent imagination thank you.I have even written some black lace style stuff(porn for women)which I hope one day to write out properly(dc's etc. take up a lot of my time).I have let people read this stuff and those who have read it have said thank you afterwards(after spending happy night)so my imagination is obv. not on the blink thank you!

Am with you bananabump

LOL Bananabump love your post.
One point to those who say porn isn't useful.Please consider my case.My dp and I have only ever been with each other.We were both quite naive in some ways and obv.inexperienced.We have used porn to help us along and thank goddness we did as I have always had a high sex drive and get bored quite easily.It helped us learn(I know sounds a little weird)that we were doing things right.Is that seedy or shameful?I don't think so.

madamez: I didn't mean no real woman could be an exhibitionist. What I was trying to say is that a lot of what is presented as "amateur" style for-fun porn is probably just as calculated and "pro" as the hyper-norked, airbrushed, Jenna Jameson variety!

'What's so "dangerous" about online flirting and dating, given that not everyone is in, or wants to be in, a monogamous relationship?'

I meant dangerous from the point of view of people who don't want it to happen - many of whom make their views clear on here. I suppose the "danger" is, as we have seen from people's reactions on here, that some people's partners see it as a step too far. If one partner presumes certain things about the relationship, e.g. that monogamy includes a ban on online flirting, and another doesn't, there is clearly an imbalance and a problem.

I have seen friends' marriages break up, sadly, because one person wanted the relationship to remain but to include extra-curricular activities - on both sides - while the other very strongly didn't.

bananabump

I bet dodgylookingcrackwhoreswhodontwannabehere.com has its fans!

I have to admit unquietdad that I don't really understand your point on 'What's so "dangerous" about online flirting and dating, given that not everyone is in, or wants to be in, a monogamous relationship?' (my bad, pregnancy porridge brain as usual)

All I can say on the subject is that I feel anything you wouldn't happily do with your partner in the room sex wise is probably cheating. I couldn't happily sit next to my blokey and describe what I wanted to do to some random guy online, and I know dp wouldn't.

So it would be cheating in the context of our relationship, even though it isn't as serious as going on a real date or flirting with someone in the same room as you (unless you are specifically going on a chatroom as a precursor to meeting up with someone for sex, obviously)

I think that with any relationship, if you go into it with vastly different views on what is acceptable and what isn't, then there will always be a disparity there, a weak spot that the banalities of life will force wide open and at some point will become as issue (eg an affair)

Personally I think cybersex puts too much temptation in the path of people in relationships even if they were intending to stay monogamous and just doing it for titillation. It's too easy to fall in love with the idea of someone, especially since we're all more generous and entertaining in text format.

UnquietDad: I bet dodgylookingcrackwhoreswhodontwannabehere.com has its fans!

Oh, inevitably. Variety being the spice of life and all that guff. I could tell you some stories about the kind of stuff people are really into from when I worked on the chatline... one guy loved the idea of a lady made of transparent sundae glass, filled to the brim with all different flavour icecream... you don't find that kind of thing in mainstream porn but for that guy at least there's a market for it out there! lol

bananbump - that was madamez's quote which I was responding to. Hence the confusion. Sorry.

"Obsessive use to exclusion of partner - your sexual relationship is troubled, but the porn is just one indicator - it's almost certainly not the cause."

Don't think this is the case often. If porn becomes an addiction, it can be the only cause of relationship problems. Addictions are not always indicators but causes in themselves - good, honest and otherwise baggage free people have been known to become addicted to many things.

bananabump, I don't think sextoys are the devils tools. Dentists tools are, though.

And btw, I'm no angel. I used to be a club dancer and I've not been living in a cave all my adult life.
I guess it's just all about the rules you make for your relationship. Others do things differently, and that's fine. Shame is a rather personal affair, I find, and differs from person to person anyway.

my dp is very open about his porn useage. he has a penchant for a certain act that i am not keen on trying, and he says he wouldn't want me to do it anyway as even he agrees it is degrading.
not happy about it, but what can i do?

UQD: if one partner in a relationship is monogamous by inclination and the other isn't then the relationship is doomed whether or not there is a computer in the house.
MT: porn doesn't leap out of nowhere to attack those who were previously settled into bovine monogamous contentment. People look at porn out of a variety of reasons, including boredom and dissatisfaction with their existing sex lives. Sometimes porn helps improve the situation (if the dissatisfaction is due to not knowing how to do certain things, for instance).

madamez - Although those inclinations are not necessarily going to manifest themselves until later on. That was what happened with my friends. She said she'd never have married him if she'd known his idea of a relationship was so different from hers, but the truth is that, when they married, it probably wasn't - at least not consciously.