DP doesn't want to marry me

[NC4THIS11]

We have one DC and I'm pregnant with our second, the past few months I've realised how much I'd love to get married. I haven't pressurised him nor have I asked him, but I've dropped a few hints for him to know its something I'm hoping for. I do want security for me and the DC but more importantly I love him and want to spend my life with him.

I saw a beautiful (but not expensive) ring in the windows of a jewellers and text him as my birthday was coming up, i told him about the ring and reminded him of my size and even made it as blatant as saying "hint hint ;)" in a jovial way, of course. That's the only time I've been so brave!

He twigged on and smiled, saying he'll see what he can do. I was elated. My birthday came and so did lovely gifts, but no ring. I had really gotten my hopes up, but I know that's my problem not his.

He has been engaged twice before and neither relationship lead to marriage. The first was in his early twenties to a longstanding girlfriend of 3 years and the second was the mother of his older DC, a relationship of 7 years. It seems he likes the idea of being engaged, just not to me?

A part of me wonders whether he's not fully committing because he thinks his ex will make an issue of it, there's been an atmosphere between she and i since we got together 4 years ago. She is happily attached but makes things difficult for DP when he has a woman in his life.

Should I just accept he's not interested in marrying me or should I speak to him properly and tell him how I'm feeling? I feel so awkward after the birthday misunderstanding, if you can call it that.

I had to look that up, but the inheritance tax in the UK is 40% on those parts of the assets over 325k pounds. Given how high property values are in much of the UK that would probably kick in if property were being inherited. This I can see as a compelling reason for marriage, especially if a partner were older or in poor health.

@Chugalug

I don't mean to attack you. This is an observation of mine on MN.

I always wonder when women say they're Catholic or old fashioned and no marriage is a dealbreaker, yet they have no issue with having DC out of wedlock.

How much does your religion really matter if you had 4 kids out of marriage?

Scott that wouldn't matter so much if you hold your main property as joint tenants though I don't think?

He's worried about marriage making it too hard to split up? It will be harder with a bevy of separate legal agreeements to replicate some parts of marriage.

The hard bit of breaking up comes with the joint responsibilities like children. The legal status of marriage and divorce make it easier overall nkt harder. Unless one of you wants to keep the option open to fuck the other one over of course.

IHT exemption applies to husband wife or civil partner. People are right that married couples or those in civil partnerships get tax break here that might be material if you have a large expensive property or estate. This benefit extends into the value of the estate that ultimately falls to the children of the parents. It is worth having. But

Two issues to bear in mind with this.

Do you want your spouse to inherit? That’s not straightforward in blended families or if you were concerned your spouse would remarry and potentially disinherit your children. Wills, inheritance intentions and wealth change over time and should be constantly revisited. Marriage refusers are aware of this and it is why they don’t want to enter into a legal arrangement that splits their wealth with another adult. There are other ways to avoid IHT if that’s what you want to do.

Is the inequity sustainable in light of the Supreme Court ruling in relation to widows allowance? The government is compelled to review policy and the scope may widen to cover this benefit.

The legal protections and preferential state benefits make marriage the best option for a lot of people, particularly women who want children and have or expect to have limited Career or earning potential. It is simple and straightforward to enter into the legal arrangement.

If you have preexisting responsibilities and dependents and a lot of wealth and income, or you think you will accrue wealth and income during the relationship, then it becomes the complicated option. It’s not a matter of how much you love somebody, it’s a practical thing that our current laws don’t easily allow for. It doesn’t help that there are no other options or that people see other relationships as a lesser option or expression of love. Lots of people don’t really love the person they are married to.

Isn’t insisting somebody marries you a sign that something isn’t right? All this he married me and not her sentiment makes me wonder just how healthy these relationships are and smack of the pick me dance. Maybe she didn’t want to marry him and live the way he expected her too. Maybe you will find out just how ruthless he can be if he picks somebody else and wants to divorce. Every time I read those posts I think of Serena Joy.

In this particular case, if OP's account is correct, the other women did want to marry and the man didn't have the guts or decency to be honest and tell them that it was never going to happen.

He did exactly the same thing with OP, of course, and while it seems obvious to us disengaged outsiders, it's not that simple from within. I think anyone who has ever been in love has that sense of "I've never felt this way before, this time is different". It doesn't make it a "pick me dance". How do you play "pick me" with someone who's not in the game?

With that said, I guess it's a sign that we should look to someone's past, because past behaviour is usually the best indication of future behaviour.

It's absolutely the case that marriage is not always in someone's best interests, which is why it's important to clarify what it is and isn't so that people can make informed decisions about what's best for them.

The pick me dance isn’t just about competing with another person. It’s about changing your behaviour or hiding your identity to conform to the mans supposed desires. Becoming the type of women who he will marry and playing games to achieve it. Competing with notions of another women etc.

I would be very put off by anybody expecting me to marry them on the basis that they wanted half my property, pension and investments for their security. It doesn’t mean I wouldn’t support somebody during a relationship and share equally. I know it’s a privileged position but there you are.

Nb the OP started this thread because she knew her partner didn’t want to marry her and felt unloved because of it. She was comparing herself and competing with the ghost of past fiancées. She has hoped and expected he would propose based on an innocuous comment and a hint about a ring. She then raised it in reference to a plot on Eastenders and followed it up by a call to him at work. They are bothequally responsible for where they are now to my mind. Whipping up bitterness and recrimination isn’t going to be helpful as they need to maintain a relationship for the children who they both chose to have in their current circumstances.

If you were in a truly committed life partnership, with kids together to consider, you shouldn't be considering it "your" property, especially if you were able to accrue it only because your partner was taking the financial hit to raise the kids.

Mean with money, mean with love.

One potential outcome of this thread is that the OP and her partner are able to have a good and productive conversation about marriage, about what it has meant to them in the past, what it might mean to them after thinking about issues raised in this thread, and then agree to get married.

They seem to have a good relationship, but a background of very different understandings of what marriage actually is, neither of which see marriage as a legal contract which offers rights and responsibilities. Their problems seems to be caused largely by misunderstandings of the institution of marriage and each other.

I hope they can resolve this in a way which is good for them both and their children.

Obviously marriage is the best option. And I’m well aware that you don’t need the frocks and fuss.

But if her DP wont marry her and she is going to stay with him then she needs the legal bits sorted that will safeguard her family (or even if they don’t stay together)

While it's better to have the legal bits sorted than not, there is nothing go to stop any adult changing these arrangements, for example making another will.

So better but not ideal for the financially weaker party

user1492863869 you've hit the nail on the head there. I would be very put off by anybody expecting me to marry them on the basis that they wanted half my property, pension and investments for their security.

That's quite possibly the cause of his reluctance, and its perfectly understandable. Taking on a huge financial risk merely because its the "right thing to do" with no huge compensating benefit is irrational. Human beings, men or women, don't work like that.

And the relationship is already on shaky ground. It could be he senses her longing for marriage is one of the things still holding it together - and once that longing has been satisfied her desire will be diminished. And to be fair maybe he's thinking of leaving too.

good luck OP

I'm really appalled that anyone, male or female, would be happy to allow their supposedly beloved life partner to take a financial hit to raise their joint children, and still consider the earnings and property "theirs". Who are quite happy to see the mother/father of their children, whom they claim to love, fucked over in this way and do not consider their contribution to be equal, even though they would not have the assets or a family without this other person.

I mean, obviously it happens all the time, but it's still appalling. Marriage is not right for everybody, but if your partner is quite happy to see you in this situation, it's hard to see how they could claim to love you.

I can't say it enough: mean with money, mean with love. I have never, ever, ever seen an exception. Not ever, not once. Also, people who are mean with money are inevitably shit in bed as well.

I would be very put off by anybody expecting me to marry them on the basis that they wanted half my property, pension and investments for their security
She wants to marry the father of her children because she loves him, she has said this repeatedly. If you can't respect your family enough to give them security, you shouldn't have one.
That's quite possibly the cause of his reluctance, and its perfectly understandable. Taking on a huge financial risk merely because its the "right thing to do" with no huge compensating benefit is irrational.
So you are completely fine with the mother of your children, a person you claim to love, sacrificing her career and security to raise your children without making any sacrifices for your family at all? Are you seriously that pathetic and selfish?
Human beings, men or women, don't work like that.
Crap. Only the self-centered ones think like that.

He has form. He moved in with a previous gf, got engaged, they had a child then they broke up. Nice and easily for him.

He went on to say he saw his mums two marriages end in tears and it all seemed like a big fuss over nothing for a piece of paper. Money, inconvenience, divorce.

He wants to live with her, have children, not make any effort, be able to walk out easily, make it harder for her to walk out while she has restricted her earnings as if they were financially joined. This is a bad bad sign.

If he were concerned about the pain of long term relationships ending then he wouldn't have gotten into two and fathered three children. Marriage isn't about the relationship for him, he already has that, so really all that leaves is the ability to leave more easily. Like he did before.

I'd be deeply suspicious. Especially as op says he has stopped making an effort.

Sisterlove exactly! Fwiw, I was baptised Catholic but married in another Church and have raised my children in that faith too. I cannot bear the “ I can’t do x cos I’m Catholic yet blithely scithe through all of the teachings” . I think that is called à la Carte Catholicism. Apologies but when I see family members at this kind of stuff ..

OP i feel For you. I hope he cops onto himself. Let us know how dinner goes

Don't know if your 'date ' is still on for this evening but if it is , hope it all goes well.

Hope you are doing ok OP

Hope it went well.

Hi OP, hope things are ok now??