DP doesn't want to marry me

[NC4THIS11]

We have one DC and I'm pregnant with our second, the past few months I've realised how much I'd love to get married. I haven't pressurised him nor have I asked him, but I've dropped a few hints for him to know its something I'm hoping for. I do want security for me and the DC but more importantly I love him and want to spend my life with him.

I saw a beautiful (but not expensive) ring in the windows of a jewellers and text him as my birthday was coming up, i told him about the ring and reminded him of my size and even made it as blatant as saying "hint hint ;)" in a jovial way, of course. That's the only time I've been so brave!

He twigged on and smiled, saying he'll see what he can do. I was elated. My birthday came and so did lovely gifts, but no ring. I had really gotten my hopes up, but I know that's my problem not his.

He has been engaged twice before and neither relationship lead to marriage. The first was in his early twenties to a longstanding girlfriend of 3 years and the second was the mother of his older DC, a relationship of 7 years. It seems he likes the idea of being engaged, just not to me?

A part of me wonders whether he's not fully committing because he thinks his ex will make an issue of it, there's been an atmosphere between she and i since we got together 4 years ago. She is happily attached but makes things difficult for DP when he has a woman in his life.

Should I just accept he's not interested in marrying me or should I speak to him properly and tell him how I'm feeling? I feel so awkward after the birthday misunderstanding, if you can call it that.

Yes @Taylor22 I agree

I think the point missed by @Taylor22 and a few others, is the basic foundation of trust in the relationship has been broken.

The DP knew from the very beginning that the Op wanted marriage He did know that long term I'd like to be married, at the start of the relationship I did say I wanted the full family setting. Kids. Marriage. The DP knew, and at this point should have been truthful and said he was against marriage. He wasn't, instead he mislead Op.

True but op knew there were no actual marriage plans on the table when she decided to have two children with him.

OP you can't force someone to marry you and even if you managed to force him down the register office/aisle is that really the foundations of marriage you would want? Good luck whatever you decide to do but if you love each other then why throw it all away. Marriage is important to some not all x

That's true onedayy but sometimes how strongly we feel changes.. especially when kids are involved.

I met my partner at 30 - wanted a child and thought the rest would come. Had similar conversations about .marriage but put my fading fertility first and had ds. It was after ds was born that my feelings about marriage strengthened - like a need to commit. Unfortunately dp doesn't have the Same need. It causes huge issues in our relationship and will probably end it.

But sadly women are still hamstrung by ideas of proposals and it all being in the hands of the man. So you can have a discussion about marriage in the early days of a relationship, and then lots of women feel they have to go quiet, wait for the big proposal, or think that they mustn't push it because it is humiliating/will make their partner leave. It is all bollocks, but fairly common bollocks unfortunately.

So it's a bit harsh to have a go at the OP, because she did make her views clear.

What a horrible situation OP.
I don't know where you go from here because you wouldn't accept a proposal now (which I agree with!) so him going away to think about it isn't going to help. He can't come back and fix this. It looks like there's no getting past it. Hope whatever happens you're ok.

op knew there were no actual marriage plans on the table when she decided to have two children with him

Not relevant @onedayy there may not have been any actual plans on the table, but Op made it clear that one day it was expected. Now the DP has admitted that he never intended to get married. So he has been deceiving Op from the start.

I have been watching this thread. When I was younger I had a long term boyfriend who did not want to commit to marriage as he felt we were too young etc. We lived together in a flatshare. As time went by we began attending weddings, our friends were settling down and I got fed up of waiting. Without saying a word, I began to take steps to move away. That spring he proposed and we had a white wedding just over a year later, which is now many years ago. We have a child together, whom we adore.

A happy ending? Not entirely.

I am largely very happy with our life, but several times now this whole issue has resurfaced with him expressing feelings of uncertainty about ‘us’. It seems to emerge at times of stress. When our son was a toddler we had a major crisis, which was absolutely devastating for me.

At the time we got married he totally wanted to marry me and I still think I was right to do so. But somehow those years of hanging back had caused a doubt to form in his mind and that still remains.

In conclusion, I think there is a ‘moment’ for marriage when the energy in the relationship is at its peak and you both want to make that kind of commitment. Go past that moment and it is too easy for doubt to set in.

I asked again what his problem with marriage was and said I wanted to get to the core of his reluctance, he said it seems to 'change' people when they get married, why 'change' things when they're fine as they are.

My best friend was with a guy who for years and years maintained "I don't want to get married, I don't want DC". She really wanted to get married and also was fine not having DC. Eventually they split up and lo and behold, he met someone and is now married with 2 DC.

OP, be true to yourself and what is important to you, don't compromise on something so big as the desire to marry.

Take things one step at a time, but the fact you've had to really insist and force the important conversation that he wasn't willing to broach, speaks volumes.

@viewoffriday some people belive in tradition. That's why they want the man to ask

I do agree that he has misled op and his hint that he was going to get a ring was quite cruel if he had no intention of doing so. However why leave it till op’s second pregnancy to have a make or break conversation which could end the whole relationship.

some people belive in tradition but they never seem to believe in tradition enough not to live together and have babies while waiting for their proposal.

@maybedoctor, I know what you mean, if the choice was made in the height of the energy then it's not doubted. EVEN if the relationship you have now is as secure or rewarding, there's less faith in the decision itself. Or something like that.

Say you do get married, financial security for DC future, say you end up divorced, he then marries someone else, dies, then surely estate goes to new wife??? I have a similar situation where my Exh has remarried, wife never worked a day, a typical Jeremy Kyle type of person, he has a fabulous pension and his own property which effectively goes straight to her if he dies first, i think my children would have to fight for any pennies..

If marriage is a deal breaker, if it’s so important to you that you would break up with your partner over it even after having children together, then it’s wrong to have children before getting married or at the very least engaged. Otherwise you are basically taking a gamble that you may or may split up over the marriage question and your children end up with separated parents. That’s unfair on the children.

My view might seem harsh. But imo my first responsibility as a mother was to choose a suitable father for my children, given all the information i had at that time (obviously people, situations and relationships change). And choosing a suitable father includes making sure you’re on the same page when it comes to the big questions including marriage.

I don't think your judgement is particularly fair on this thread Emma given the OP is where she is, and is fully aware that things could have been handled differently.

It's called the benefit of 20:20 vision in hindsight.

It's the painful reality she is now having to live with, which doesn't need to be double underlined to her.

Hand on heart though for the OP primarily want marriage for financial security for her children or because of the romantic gesture? I think if it was the former she wouldn't have had children first. It was more likely she was prepared to forego the romantic gesture for a while and have a DC, and is now using financial security as the reason to say her feelings on this trump his and take the moral high ground as well as just saying she's hurting. Which is not wholly unreasonable but is conflating two things to paint the DP in the worst light and has been whipped up by this thread I think.

@Cantgetthisshitoutmyhead pension built up during the marriage (and previous seamless cohabitation) would be counted as a marital asset in the event of a split so when you divorced your ex he would have been required to provide his CETV. Your settlement would then have either included you being entitled to some of his pension, or you'd have received a greater share of the marital assets in lieu of this (if you didn't you've been ill advised). When I got divorced I even had to declare the minuscule pension I'd only paid into for 2 years!

@ACatsNoHelpWithThat scottish law is different, pensions are only considered assets from the day you marry to the day you separate, my pension was greater than his so I was more keen to offset other assets and we forfeited any claims of either parties pensions. Exh got a shares more value than our equity but I had to ensure our children had a roof so I gladly gave them up.. What I'm saying is OPs children won't necessarily have any more financial security if they are married, a good will can sort their future out but if OPs partner re marries then the future spouse ends up with his estate possibly?

This isn't about a will.
It is about commitment to the relationship.

@Cantgetthisshitoutmyhead but your pensions were still taken into account when divorcing. Also if your pension was more than his I'm guessing even if you took a hit to your career you were still building up resources for the future. If I remember correctly the OP has only been working part time since DC arrived and is therefore taking a hit to her earning potential and pension pot. If her OH has a pension and they marry then she'll be entitled to more assets in lieu of having a claim on his pension later. As things stand it's entirely his asset even though she's enabling him to work full time. She might not be entitled to death in service benefit either depending on his employer.

Absolutely, but OP would only be entitled to death in service if they remain married.. In my opinion 4 year relationship, 2 DC, DP may not think marriage is on the cards right now, there's not one thing to suggest he may absolutely change his mind or stance on it but the 1st post on this thread OP clearly says she loves him and wants to spend the rest of her life with him.. surely step back, enjoy what you have right now, he doesn't want to lose you, he does love you, he's a black and white kinda guy who is obviously scared of divorce all over again.

I just read the FT. I am so sorry OP it all sounds so very hard for you.

It is just impossible to reconcile starkly conflicting beliefs between 2 individuals where both people are so strongly committed to their own beliefs. I mean we all have opinions that can be easily swayed but deeply held beliefs are so different.

I think you both just sleep walked into a situation that the other would change their beliefs along the way. I don’t necessarily think that is either of your faults. I also doubt that your DP has his eyes on further prizes coming his way down the line. I think from what you’ve written you are both telling the truth as you believe it to be.

He is not interested in nor does he value marriage. He is committed to you as far as he is capable of being. You are what he wants now and into the future. That is what he seems like he is saying from what you have written. Marriage is not something he believes in.

You on the other hand value marriage for the practical and romantic fulfilment you believe it offers. You want the stability and certainty you believe it will bring to your relationship. Marriage is something you believe in.

You have 2 choices:

Leave and make your peace with that.

Stay and make your peace with the changes you need to bring to your relationship to ensure that stability that is required. FT job, bills split fairly, childcare split fairly. Essentially you will have to ensure you do not offer your DP the benefits of a facilitated life as it will compromise your long term security.

Actually though there is an opportunity for you to create a very balanced relationship for you and your children but you must give up on the idea of marriage completely and make peace with the likelihood it might not ever happen.

I actually don’t believe it is a case that your DP doesn’t love you enough to spend a lifetime together, honestly in the modern world even marriage does not guarantee that, rather he just doesn’t value or want marriage.

He's never been divorced. Only engaged where he didn't intend to marry them anyway.

It's a cowardly thing to do, to pretend you will marry someone then reveal far too late you never intended to. It's naive to believe it, certainly, but naïveté is not as bad as deliberately misleading someone.