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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DP doesn't want to marry me

547 replies

NC4THIS11 · 05/09/2018 21:50

We have one DC and I'm pregnant with our second, the past few months I've realised how much I'd love to get married. I haven't pressurised him nor have I asked him, but I've dropped a few hints for him to know its something I'm hoping for. I do want security for me and the DC but more importantly I love him and want to spend my life with him.

I saw a beautiful (but not expensive) ring in the windows of a jewellers and text him as my birthday was coming up, i told him about the ring and reminded him of my size and even made it as blatant as saying "hint hint ;)" in a jovial way, of course. That's the only time I've been so brave!

He twigged on and smiled, saying he'll see what he can do. I was elated. My birthday came and so did lovely gifts, but no ring. I had really gotten my hopes up, but I know that's my problem not his.

He has been engaged twice before and neither relationship lead to marriage. The first was in his early twenties to a longstanding girlfriend of 3 years and the second was the mother of his older DC, a relationship of 7 years. It seems he likes the idea of being engaged, just not to me?

A part of me wonders whether he's not fully committing because he thinks his ex will make an issue of it, there's been an atmosphere between she and i since we got together 4 years ago. She is happily attached but makes things difficult for DP when he has a woman in his life.

Should I just accept he's not interested in marrying me or should I speak to him properly and tell him how I'm feeling? I feel so awkward after the birthday misunderstanding, if you can call it that.

OP posts:
RabbitsAreTasty · 08/09/2018 14:24

When you do anything that benefits him remember that he is your boyfriend and housemate not your husband. Remember that means no shared money.

Stop doing all the housework. You are a woman who chose to work part time to spend more time with your child. You did not choose to fuck over your career and bank balance so you could spend more time doing your boyfriend's laundry, cooking his dinner and doing your housemates share of toilet cleaning, now did you?

NC4THIS11 · 08/09/2018 14:57

I don't think he will propose, there's been plenty of times I thought the moment was coming then hasn't.

My guess is he is going to apologize and explain himself

OP posts:
elmo1980 · 08/09/2018 15:06

Good luck op, it sounds like hes willing to have a conversation about it all which is half the battle in these situations. I hope you find a solution you can both be happy with.

Taylor22 · 08/09/2018 15:07

Stop doing all the housework. You are a woman who chose to work part time to spend more time with your child. You did not choose to fuck over your career and bank balance so you could spend more time doing your boyfriend's laundry, cooking his dinner and doing your housemates share of toilet cleaning, now did you?

This is so bloody childish. If he is at work and OP is at home the she should be doing the chores. Because they're not housemates. They are in a long term committed relationship. Stop trying to cheapen it just to get your drama kicks.

bethy15 · 08/09/2018 15:17

I don't think you should leave him, but if he does propose, I don't think you should accept yet.

What I think you should both do is lay all your cards on the table and say exactly what you want, and when.
Let's not forget that he propose to another woman in the hopes of keeping her, but without marrying her. I'd be weary of a big gesture, but no follow through. It also would be a reflex reaction from him.

You both have an awful lot of thinking to do, and also, an awful lot of growing up and communicating with each other.

timeisnotaline · 08/09/2018 15:47

I struggle to see how you can explain ‘I lied to these other women about our future together but you can trust me. I’m here for the long haul and would like you to be a stay at home mum.’

irunlikeahipoo · 08/09/2018 16:29

If he proposes then set a date . For this year or within six months

Don’t let it drag on because you want the engament ring
The his and hers stag & hen do abroad
The perfect instagram moment
The matching bridesmaids and page boys
Saving for years to get this 1 day which really means fuck All in the grand scheme of actually getting married

He could easily drag this out for several years by saying he wants you to have the big white princess wedding .
Make it clear you want marriage not a wedding and a cake and you want it quickly

RabbitsAreTasty · 08/09/2018 16:53

It isn't drama Taylor. He is taking advantage of her. She has reduced her working hours and he likes it because she does all the housework.

Remember that he has fathered a child with a previous girlfriend, left her and pays less than CMS. He is taking advantage of her part time work to get his housework done for him while witholding the usual legal protection for the lesser working partner. He should not have all the benefits of a wife with none of the risks, while she takes all the risks and does all the shit work. Damn right she should stop washing his pants.

Graphista · 08/09/2018 17:01

ABSOLUTELY DO NOT become a sahm without getting married. You would be SO vulnerable, frankly trapped!

I too despair of the NUMEROUS threads of this type. I personally made it clear to my ex from early on that to stay with someone long term would mean marriage and THEN DC. Either not being forthcoming were deal breakers for me.

I'd seen the mess that not being ACTUALLY married but behaving as if you were can bring.

The fact is, without that LEGALLY BINDING contract which affects so much in the event of several potential life changes, generally women are screwed!

Another thing I'd be asking you if I were your friend op - how does he treat his ex that has his other dc? What was her position when they broke up?

And that is actually the only relevance his ex should have to you, on this issue.

Re why those relationships broke up - you only have his side of things!

Pallisers is right - change your perspective from "am I good enough?" To "is he good enough?"

You're both also focusing only on in the event of separation. At the moment that's the most likely issue BUT you never know what's around the corner. The situation that made me so firm on not having DC without marriage, not committing without marriage was seeing a relative go through a hellish time as a young mother with 2 DC's who's partner died unexpectedly very young. They lost their family home and were left in dire straits financially. It's rare but chronic serious illness, disability and death DOES happen to young parents too - and it's even more important then to have clear financial support in place. As most uk law currently stands if he were to become sick, disabled or even die while you were a sahm you'd be EXTREMELY vulnerable financially.

Another thread currently running the op THINKS they're covered (mirror wills, death benefits assigned to each partner etc) but the truth is unless you're married his other relatives (inc his DC from his previous relationship with the ex that doesn't like you as their rep!!) can appeal wills, take over funeral arrangements, override clinical decisions...

There is nothing you can do legally that completely replaces what marriage provides.

Also, though, even "just" looking at the possibility of separation (the irony being this is looking increasingly likely) as a joint tenant - you're still not completely protected in terms of a roof over your/your DC's heads, the MOST you would probably get is the cms minimum cm. It would be incredibly hard if not impossible to show you're due half any other assets. Especially if you're a sahm and not earning.

Eg - you say you're saving for a house, is that money in a joint account? Can you prove your contributions to it? Ditto current account.

He could argue if you're a sahm that you've not actually contributed.

One good thing is that at least you know now exactly where you stand while you do still have a job and have the full true info on which you can decide whether to stay part time or try to go full time, if you even stay with him.

The emotional distress his mum experienced when her relationships ended would have still been the case whether she was married or not! Being married though meant it was far easier and more clear cut for her and her husband's to sort out legal/financial separation of home and other assets. Is SHE anti him marrying? Do you get on with her? What's she like?

I can understand pps saying if it's an otherwise good relationship then readjust on marriage, but there's clearly other problems too.

His poor communication, avoiding serious conversations/conflict are also very worrying. He sounds very "fairweather" partner. Do you really think you can rely on him if you or the DC become sick or disabled? Will he be genuinely supportive when you're dealing with the various bereavements we all have to deal with?

He also doesn't seem to really care about your feelings, only really reacting when things start to negatively affect him! That's not autism that's being a selfish twat! Do you have any info from HIS EX'S side of why they broke up? I too am thinking they probably had damn good reason and it wasn't necessarily the lack of a wedding ring!

I asked why he was sad and he said because he feels like he's crushed my dreams and that I'll act differently toward him now THAT is what he cares about, NOT that he's 'crushed your dreams' but that it will negatively affect him!

"when he can't even be arsed to take me out to dinner once a month" when I was first considering divorce a similar lack of effort on ex's part was part of the reason and I didn't think it would be "accepted" legally. I saw a divorce lawyer and she said absolutely lack of effort in maintaining the relationship would be seen as more than acceptable. We went to counselling and I thought we were sorted - he apparently didn't and had an affair. No relationship can be successful unless BOTH parties contribute effort.

Also, sorry op this is blunt, but his not paying the MINIMUM amount he should for his other DC is a HUGE red flag! It doesn't matter that she accepted it (more fool her) it matters that HE doesn't think HIS CHILDREN are worth even the minimum! What a pathetic loser of a man!

Seen it SO often on here, op's expecting men to behave differently with and to them than they did to their ex's - why? He's still the same person!

I foolishly upset myself falling for my ex's line of crap on his being a better husband/father to 2nd wife than he was to us - I later learned it was completely untrue! He now has 6 kids and has never changed a dirty nappy, cheats on her repeatedly and still won't lift barely a finger re housework! At least I only had 1 DC with him.

"It's like these women who have a new husband and want him to abandon his previous children, but don't realise any man who would do that will do it again to her children." Absolutely!

Cantgetthisshit - sorry I disagree, marriage didn't wreck your relationship. I don't think you truly loved your ex or at least not enough - ie you weren't that into him. If your relationship was truly strong no way would it have been dead a mere 10 months into marriage. Marriage doesn't change your relationship or who a person is in any fundamental way.

Jellie how old are you? Because I honestly believe when you hit pre-menopause and the reality of never being a biological mother yourself when you've admitted it was something you wanted, you will regret staying with him and resent him. Are you prepared legally for his death? If you both own your home his dd will have a claim there. Plus potentially other assets too.

I personally know of a situation where a friend of my mums lived with her partner for 20 years in his former marital home. He had DC from the marriage. When he died they were adults, she'd no legal claim to the property (despite cash payments to him towards mortgage and repairs/maintenance) they were able to force the sale of the property to access their inheritance and she ended up both evicted from her home of 20 years and with nothing to show for it and no means to buy elsewhere and unable to get a mortgage. Basically all the money she'd given him was thrown away. She'd been one of many (seen on here frequently) that believed that common law marriage was a legal entity and she was protected. She hadn't a leg to stand on.

Taylor there's really no true legal/financial sub for marriage. Far too many variables to cover especially when he has 2 DC from a previous relationship.

This is not the only reason myself and others are saying he's not a great partner/father, there's several other reasons not least that he's not paying even min cm for his other DC. There's also his immaturity when dealing with conflict/difficult conversations.

Cantgetthisshit - if scots law applies he can't disinherit his kids anyway.

"Absolutely, but OP would only be entitled to death in service if they remain married.." Not necessarily. If my ex had died in service after our divorce but before he remarried I'd have received his death benefits.

As I see it you currently have 2 options:

1 leave - not without its problems and I say that as a Lp of 15 years who never regretted the decision

2 stay but plan to return to FT work and put in place as much as you can to ensure security for you and DC. If he won't agree to even basics like mirror wills and life assurance and you working FT I'd think very poorly of him, you'd be a mug to stay in that case to be honest.

IF he proposes I'd accept ON CONDITION that a date be set ASAP and firm arrangements made to actually marry - don't end up strung along even more.

Taylor22 · 08/09/2018 17:05

@RabbitsAreTasty He is not taking advantage of her.

They are a family. They (together!) decided that she would get to stay at home to be with her babies. If she doesn't want to she can go back to work after 6 weeks and put both kids in full time childcare.

If she doesn't want to help him at home.
Then he can contribute exactly 50% of the bills. No point in working out what's fair or the difference in their salary. After all they're just house mates. Right?

Not a loving caring family?

This place really is a virtual Jeremy Kyle show sometimes. Cretins just feeding off others peoples drama and fuelling the fire to ensure maximum drama.

findingmywaytoday · 08/09/2018 17:24

Hi Op, sorry you're going through this. I was sort of in your position in the past savefor the fact we didn't have kids at the time. I'd always made clear I eventually wanted to get married and have kids and was putting both on his radar as ultimately they were deal breakers for me so it was for ME (not him) to decide.

4 years in he said he would never get married or have kids. I was devastated but reconfirmed it was a dealbreaker and we split up. I was furious and felt like he had wasted my time as I wouldn't have invested in the relationship after so much time.

He did reconsider and did propose 3 months after we got back together and we've been married 6 years now. He says he regrets dithering in hindsight.

I wanted to point out there may still be hope of a positive outcome, but don't cling blindly to the hope. Ultimately you need to decide what it is that you want and go from there. I hope all does work out but do be wise to the fact that he might propose with no intention of following though.

YearOfYouRemember · 08/09/2018 17:28

My ex proposed to shut me up. I left but because of something he did rather than not said. First date with dh I asked if he wanted marriage and kids. He proposed after just under three years and we were married nine months later.

Would you want to marry him now if he booked the next available registry office for the security even if you thought it wouldn't last ?

Butterymuffin · 08/09/2018 17:39

I agree with posters saying you should not dismiss a proposal immediately now - the pps who are saying "it would be tarnished now, he didn't want to do it' are simply not thinking realistically. If he has had enough of a shock now to realise what he'd be throwing away and is prepared to change his position, that is worth something. I would put two conditions on that:

  1. you get actually married, not engaged, asap. I would be looking at booking the register office for the first date available and getting on with it. You can always have a combination celebration party when the baby's here. If he makes warm noises about marriage now but still bridles at actually setting a date (soon) then that's not good enough.

  2. He needs to step up his efforts in general in the relationship. It'll take a few months to be sure he's really doing that but make it clear what you expect.

But honestly OP, while you don't have to fall into his arms the moment you see him on Friday, I would give him a chance to respond and see if he's ready to compromise now. When you ask someone for something, you ought to be prepared to actually let them give it.

ellav · 08/09/2018 17:50

Have you seen 'he's just not that into you'? There's a storyline in that where Jennifer Anniston desperately wants to get married and Ben affleck doesn't - so they separate... but there's a bit after a family funeral for Jennifer where Ben is there washing up, and being a real support and the other siblings husband isn't.
Just really makes me think of this bit a lot when I've read your posts (it also made me cry when I watched the link)....

However I do totally understand how you feel. I hope you can both reach an outcome that works for you both.

Taking you out for dinner Friday is a nice thing to do, and hopefully the start of a bit more effort on his part. Keep playing it a bit cool, I think you're doing great xx

Graphista · 08/09/2018 17:59

I've not seen that film but man I'd have bollocked those lazy arses! Wtf! "We got takeout" Angry

bethy15 · 08/09/2018 18:20

I agree with posters saying you should not dismiss a proposal immediately now

I would say it needs thinking and talking about. It's possible a proposal would be a band aid over the current problem they have.

It's a couple of days. If he has lifelong thoughts that he doesn't want to marry, and said the other day he'd rather split than marry OP, then any decision to propose will be based on this short term basis of being asked to stay at his brothers for a few days.

I would just say proceed with caution.

NC4THIS11 · 08/09/2018 18:35

I really need to see "he's just not that into you" I'm sure I watched it many years ago but cant remember anything about it.

I had a sniffle at that video link from the film! I don't know if its because I'm hormonal or whether it resonates with me somehow.

DP can be a lazy git at times as can I but I can think of a load of occasions where he's waited on me whilst I've been ill and been generally very sweet. He runs baths, does nice little things like lights candles and brings in a cuppa. He calls me beautiful on a daily basis even when I look like shit (that's often atm!) Things like that aren't the foundations of a lasting relationship i know but he does make me happy in other ways than his refusal to marry.

I've probably demonized him a bit here because I'm so upset about the marriage thing, he can be a twat but he's certainly not all bad.

As the maintenance thing has popped up again I just wanted to reiterate that I don't condone men paying less than the minimum CM. In his case discussions were had between him and his ex and she herself requested the sum she gets now. Aside the set maintenance £ he does buy the children's school uniforms, shoes/coats/clothes when they need them and pays for things they might need/want which doesn't detract from the monthly sum he gives their mother.

I still feel that marriage will be a deal breaker for me long term so I hope it doesn't come to that. If he did propose then after some reluctance I think I'd accept if I believed he was genuine having reflected on everything that has been said.

I wouldn't accept an engagement I'm not bothered about the ring I just want the piece of paper, down the registry office before the baby is born.

OP posts:
NC4THIS11 · 08/09/2018 18:36

He didn't outright say he'd rather split than marry that was my assumption based on his position but I suppose its entirely acceptable for me to think that way given his absolute reluctance when we spoke

OP posts:
Chugalug · 08/09/2018 18:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NC4THIS11 · 08/09/2018 18:47

@Chugalug

I applaud your genius Grin

OP posts:
Chugalug · 08/09/2018 18:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Chugalug · 08/09/2018 18:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bethy15 · 08/09/2018 18:53

He didn't outright say he'd rather split than marry that was my assumption based on his position but I suppose its entirely acceptable for me to think that way given his absolute reluctance when we spoke

I think you need to stay away from assumptions. It's kind of got you into this situation, assuming because he'd been engaged before he wanted to marry you. Assuming because he didn't you didn't compare well to the others.

Hopefully he will want marriage and for all the right reasons.

headbangez · 08/09/2018 19:12

He can sort his own dinner tomorrow, get himself up for work and wash his own damn clothes. I'm basically hired help without the pay, oh and sex on tap when he* wants it.

Feeling very bitter right now so please excuse me if I sound a bit childish. *

It sounds to me like you are already married 😂

Seriously though you don't want to be married to someone who doesn't actually want to be married to you!

We were together for 15years before we got married. We never felt the need even after having our children. It just sort of happened. Once the wedding was done and dusted we were back to how things felt before we got married. It really doesn't change anything. It sounds like your partner still shows affection and he is being honest about his feelings, you are luckier than a lot of married women. Be happy with what you have. You really aren't missing out.

chillpizza · 08/09/2018 19:40

Most men propose pretty fast once they have found the one, you do however get the few that propose after years and years together but that’s not as often. Sadly you also get the ones who drag out engagements with no intentions and the shit best propose to keep her as she’s walking away.

My dh proposed within months, married not long after. My db proposed after pressure and has been engaged for years with no intention to marry. My ds is pestering her dp and he seems to have no intentions, they have children and to the extent she said I’m not a Pizza I’m a burger and he said no your not a burger.

Keep your wits about you op, only you can decide what you want for your future be that together but unmarried, a possible forced marriage or apart.

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