DS back home separated and lying to us

[Goodnan]

DH and i are at our wits end and don't know what to do. DS has moved out of his home and left his wife and our DGD 3 years old, saying he needs space. He is back with us, he says he wants to work on his marriage and DS and DDIL have counselling arranged. But, we know he has been lying about what he does and where he goes, we have evidence of lies such as receipts for meals for 2 when he said he was somewhere else, plus other stuff.
We adore our DGD and DDIL ( she is devastated) and we are giving her all the support we can. She wants him back.
I'm so angry i want to throw my DS out, I don't think he has any intention of making his marriage work, and he has become a liar.
I have tried to confront him but he says nothing is going on.
Any advice on how to approach this mess

I would tell your DS what you’ve told us - that you know he’s not being truthful with you and by leaving receipts for dinner for two lying around he’s not even bothering to hide it. That he needs to be straight with DDIL and you are putting him in a difficult position. That DDIL is in your life for life as the mother of your GC.

Don’t say anything rash about the OW. For all you know he’ll be married to her in two years time, with further GC. Keep this in mind when you talk about their relationship...

"Beak out" how funny....I'm supporting my son, he has a roof...We talk every day, but he is lying to me.

Sorry - he is putting you in a difficult position!

I would throw him out for lying to you - not for his affair

You can say you love and support him but lying isn’t acceptable

He’ll probably go and stay with the ow though

It’s hard but it’s his marriage. It sounds like you are doing your best in a tricky situation

My ex MIL has always supported me against her son. He behaved very badly. She has behaved impeccably and has my DDs 30 days a year. She also adores my new husband and is lovely to my DSC. So personally I'd support the innocents.

I can't advise you on whether or not to kick your son out, but I do think there may be another way you could handle the situation @Goodnan

First though...you said you've always had a good relationship with your son, yet it does seem you are jumping to the worst possible conclusions as to his behavior. I will play devil's advocate here and ask if it's at all possible that he's having outings with a female FRIEND that he doesn't want to talk about because of the potential accusations he fears would follow? Yes, it is improbable but not impossible and I speak from experience; when my DH and I were going through a rough patch 2/3 years into our marriage and he moved back home for a month or two, I found out he was seeing one of his female friends that I had only met once and was devastated. I hit the roof and was ready to tell him to get the hell out of my life when I found out she had called him to visit US with her new boyfriend and when she found out he had moved back home she met with him to hear his side of things, then gave him what for telling him he was a moron to leave and that he'd better work things out with me because he would not find a better partner. That was almost 3 years ago, she is now MY dearest and closest female friend and I'm going to be her maid of honor in her upcoming wedding. I understand my situation isn't the norm, but it is possible, so maybe try and have a little faith that he's still the good man that you raised.

Second thing I'm thinking is this, when a marriage is breaking down or having troubles it is tough on everyone. Again, you were very close with your son but I can see how IF he were to be acting a fool with another woman he wouldn't be honest about the situation to you. He knows you support you DIL and rightly so, but it seems that you've come at him in an accusatory and judgemental position (again, rightly so if he's fooling around with an OW). But! I think if you were to go to your son with an attitude of "I know you're having a tough time son, and I'm sorry if I've been harsh but you know I love DIL and DGD, it's been a shock for me as well as I've always wanted the best for your marriage. I love you dearly and we've always been close, I want you to know you can talk to me about what's going on, no matter what the case is."

You may have to bite your tongue a bit, and it IS manipulative, but if you REALLY want to find out what's going on, coming at him with "If you're cheating I will smother you with a pillow in your sleep for being a selfish prick!" is unlikely to be met with "Well now that you mention how you're going to asphyxiate me with my pillow...I'm shagging my new secretary mom."

So what I'm trying to say in my very long winded way is that one, maybe things aren't as bad as you're speculating and two, you might try easing off the accusations and judgement and try being the supportive mom you've always been to him in the past if you want to get to the bottom of things. For what it's worth, I'm sorry that your family is going through this tough time.

I disagree about kicking him out. Personally my home is always open to my kids

This. I'd be disappointed I raised someone to be disrespectful and irresponsible but that's my problem. At 30 your offspring have their own lives to lead. It's not for me to judge.

I would hope I'd do my best to be supportive of both. (once I got over the initial rage!)

I can understand your frustration OP but at the end of the day it’s not up to you who he chooses to love.
You say you will NEVER accept another woman. Ok...but if that’s what is on the cards, your relationship with your son will suffer. You might love DIL but if he doesn’t, there’s very little you can do about it.

I hope it all works out.

I love my daughter but I wouldn't never support it enable her cheating on her family and husband. You are doing that at the moment by giving him a base to live at.

When DIL realises there is an OW, it will all blow up and you may be part of that as well. Just something to keep in mind OP.

Stating facts as they are always seems to me to be a good approach.

Sit your ds down and say to him, 'Your behaviour is odd and gives the very distinct impression you are doing something you don't want us to know about. In combination with having left your wife and three-year-old child, it suggests infidelity. I don't know whether this is the case but it is not something we condone. You have responsibilities to your wife and young child and we expect you to do everything you can to make the marriage work. While you are doing this, you can live here, but you pay rent and look after yourself domestically (assuming he is not already doing this. Really don't make things more comfortable for him by doing his cooking/washing/cleaning. The rent can be nominal but he needs to understand he doesn't get to dance off and leave all responsibilities behind and regress to carefree youth). We also assume you are continuing to support your wife and child financially.' Basically calmly letting him know that you notice what he is doing, do not approve, and do not intend to support him in it.

I wish my MIL were as supportive as you! Instead a found out she'd thought it hilarious... And at the same time cooed to me about me being "nice" to him.

I agree with @Longtalljosie. His behaviour is bad and you can be clear about your limits - including not doing his washing and cooking, and if needed charging him rent - especially if he is using your home as a way to have a cosy fling.
Its also lovely that you are maintaining contact with your DIL - if you can afford it, and especially if he's not paying for much himself, perhaps you could save any rent he pays you for your dgd.

However none of us can see the inside of a relationship, and pragmatically, at some point this OW could become his partner, and if you want to keep in contact with your son, being so violently against her could hurt you all in time.
Sorry to hear you're caught in the middle.

If my son did this. There is no way he would be living with me - ever. He’s an adult. He sounds highly manipulative ‘emotional blackmail’.
I would be booting him out and going round to dil and saying I will respect your decision but do you really think you want him back he’s a lying cheat. Then I’d offer to support dil and children as much as she wanted. Yes he is your son, but g children are g children too. Don’t enable him. If he wants to go with the ow let him but you owe her much more then to try and get her cheating ex to go back due to pressure. The biggest favour you can do right now is to tell him to get out and support your grandchildren and your daughter in law.

You sound really lovely OP and you are clearly trying to do what is ‘right’ by everyone.

I would not be able to tolerate the lies and would be telling my son that I know he is lying and needs to be honest. I would not want to enable his relationship with the OW in any way so would suggest he moves out of my home. Yes, it may mean he goes to live with the OW but at least that would be more honest than his behaviour at the moment.

It is lovely you are supporting your DIL. She will need that support.

for you.

Don't throw him out.

It's good he left his wife and not behaved like this whilst with her.

Your GD needs a place she can see her father and be less distressed by the separation.

You need to keep a decent relationship with your son for your GD sake and yours.

You can still support your DIL. Set ground rules for your son - does own washing, buys makes own food. Pays you some rent.

You are right to be angry and disappointed in him and I'd tell him. You're not enabling him but helping the split go as smoothly as it can for your DIL or GD. If you throw him out he may go back and that would be psychologically wrong for GD and DIL.

You do need to support him op.
You do not need to search his receipts, look for proof of affairs. Totally none of your business. If the marriage fails and he has OW you need to support him, regardless. Doesnt mean you dont support his wife and child
He is still your son

I will NEVER meet and accept the OW, that is for sure. Your son’s behaviour is so much worse than an OH. He is the one that has left a family and lied to your DIL not her.
You need to put the blame in the right place.

Also, there might not be an OW, the OP does seem to be jumping to conclusions rather quickly.

If your son has come to live in your house, then he has made this your business.
If I were in your position, I would talk to your son, present your evidence and ask him truthfully, what is going on.
Even if he doesn't admit to anything untoward, you're entitled to say exactly what you've said to us - that you care about your DIL and his behavior towards her is not great and that it would be kinder to make a break than string her along if there is someone else, or if the marriage is over for other reasons.
I probably wouldn't ask him to leave either, but I wouldn't be cooking/laundry etc and I would keep communications open with your DIL.

Personally, I wouldn't have my son back. Yes you can support him. But from a distance. Do you really want him to be there on a permanent basis if the relationship ends?

I would have a chat with him about what his intentions are. Does he plan on going back? How long is he planning to stay? His answers to these questions will probably give you a better indication of what he really wants to do with his relationship.

I would give him a deadline of how long he can stay. Explain you will always support him, he he can either return to his family home or set up a home elsewhere for himself if he wants the separation to be permanent.

Is this the new frontier of woman blaming? Not only are OW to blame but also MILs?

It seems an alien concept to me. Adults are responsible for their own behaviour, and that includes adult offspring.

I don't do my own DPs washing and I don't intend to do DSs either once he's a teenager. Why all these wives do it I'll never bloody know.

OP, keep out of this. It is none of your business.

Are you doing his washing, making him food, not charging him for rent or bills? He came to yours not because he needed space but to see if and how it will pan out with OW. I'd tell him I know.

My ex did this whilst testing the waters with the ow.
Apparently he did this with first wife as well ( I wasn’t the ow)

His DM condoned all of this behaviour

I’m another one whose now ex went to live with his mum and continued his affair whilst living with her. To be honest when I found out his mum knew about it I felt more hurt than I did when I found out about my exes betrayal because I thought his mum and I had a good relationship and I felt by allowing him to live with her (whilst she knew about ow, and she openly said she knew) she was accepting what he had done. I wanted her to make him live alone, he was having a cushty life living with her whilst I was struggling to manage financially and day to day with dd.