Surnames of illegitimate children?

[macdoodle]

Not mine - if anyone has seen my previous postings they will know that DH lunatic ex OW (another story not the current discussion please)...is about 4 weeks off giving birth to his illegitimate child
Things have been bitter angry and twisted to say the least (not least because I am due with DH second LEGITIMATE child in dec)-
we have been married 8 years I use his name as does DD (obviously as we are married)..
Lunatic ex OW was divorced from her DH about 18 months ago I think but as far as I know still uses her married name as in Mrs XXX ..
Ok all clear...
anyhows turns out she wants to use my DH surname as her childs surname (now birth cert I have no problem with as I think child has right to know who its parents are) - but why on earth would you want your child to have the name of a man who treated you like shit, who you stalked and manipulated, got pregnant on purpose (she did) and all along has tried to go back to his wife ...why would you want your child to have a different name to you, a man who you never lived with (other than the odd week here and there in friends rooms etc), you were never married to or even talked about marriage, who you have known less than a year when you trapped him into a child he didn't want, why would you still use the name of youe ex DH when he left you for another woman and you have no children together...
I know I sound angry and I bloody am - the only reason I can see for her to do it - is to manipulate my DH and make him feel bad and more importantly to piss me off and humiliate me - god I hate this woman and her selfish immature games - again she shows no concern for the children involved in this mess (mine really) but also her little bugger who she uses as a tool to get at DH before it is even born...
So am I just blinded by my anger or is it reasonable to expect to use his name what would others do - personally I would want to have the same name as my DC and that is never going to happen !! [angry}

Indeed what a mess.

Have sympathy for you macdoodle but can also see pov from other posters.

For OW to manipulate you requires you to be manipulated. I know you are a mass of emotions at the moment which makes it very hard to rise above it, as others have said, but really you have to.

OK, so the three of you (plus kids) are in this situation for whatever reasons, with whatever parts you all played, good or bad. Much of your resentment must be because you feel so out of control. OK, you can't control the situation but you can control your own actions and your own way of dealing with it. That is your responsibility. DH and OW have to deal with their responsibilities - be the better person

If your solicitor is half-decent, they should be suggesting some form of mediation. Unpalatable as it may seem now, it does not mean you are 'giving in'. It means you are take back some control without surrending yourself to all-consuming anger which will ultimately take its toll on you, your health and your relationships.

I know I sound like I am preaching, but your priority has to be to yourself - that is your responsibility. I think you as an individual need help to deal with what is happening, irrespective of marriage counselling.

And so you want to stay with a man who could treat another human being that 'appallingly', in addition to his wife who was undergoing fertility treatments and a wreck, and the child he had with her?

He treated you just as appallingly as he did her, and you're still with him, so why wouldn't she still cherish hopes about him?

Sounds like a real prize catch there!

What a guy!

This poor baby's surname is the least of your worries, IMHO.

cargirl..you only know of the OW what the OP has told us, which is not likely to be entirely truthful if she is mostly relying on her DH for information

cannot believe that on that basis you would think she is an unfit mother

I think you know that really don't you?

God. What a mess

How are you doing? I can't imagine having to go through all this pregnant...

Newlife??? Have you read whole thread her child will not receive my "wrath" whatever that means when did I say that...and also made clear I have not forgiven DH at all and have my doubts whether I ever will - a lot of it though does comes down to this woman's lunacy trust me she is bonkers!
Expat at one stage I did threaten to finalise divorce go back to maiden name and change DD surname by deed poll - didn't though and backed down fairly quickly - I have really really tried NOT to use MY DD as a tool in all this - if anyone is hurting OW child is it her already threatening all sorts of things!!!

No indeed, but it is perhaps something her (d)h may have more informed view on, and it is his child too, does he think OW is going to be a good mum? I struggle to think positively about a parent who has declared prior to birth that they intend to use seeing the baby as a means of control..................but then again I don't like parents who use their children as pawns at all and it is sadly all too common.

Lulu afraid a lot of my knowledge is first hand - she has spoken to me phoned me texted me met with me - got others to anonymously phone me - tried to spread rumours about me to DH - tried to befriend me until I realised what she was up to - as it looks to me this is a game to her which she is determined to win at all costs and her PG is just another tool to use
Am aware of my own failings in this but as said before expecting to behave in a certain way and actually being that strong and single minded is not that easy - DH refused mediation - solicitor adviced to push ahead with divorce and splitting of financial affairs in face of resistance and court (in light of our complicated business/property dealings) would cost upwards of 20K on my side alone and a lot of time and hassle - and guess would lose my house and have to go back to work FT (a sobering thought and something I have been trying to avoid) again things are not always a lear cut and simple as they look on the outside!

I have to confess that I did think as I posted that I was only just getting the gist of what you were saying.

I don't know, you just seem both accepting and resentful of this child at the same time. On on hand you say you understand and support his/her need to know both parents, etc. but you don't seem to want to go so far as encouraging your dh's role in his/her life because you don't really want the name used beyond it being a formality. Am I understanding that correctly.

Your anger just seems a little mis-directed from how I am reading it. I realise I'm the only one to state this on the thread probably.

It also seems that (I won't use the word forgiveness as you say you have not forgiven) you are only able to put this behind you if the OW is the worst offender which lets your dh off the hook rather even if you say you don't forgive him and have resentment towards him also.

I find it hard to swallow the whole entrapment thing.

Cargirl. I don't think you can judge the OW's parenting skills based on remarks she's made while pregnant and in a situation like this. Just because she's made threats about acting in a certain way it doesn't mean she will actually carry them out, or even that she intends to carry them out.

And FWIW it sounds like she is trying (albeit in a misguided way) to maintain a relationship with her baby's father which is hardly a sign of her incapacity to parent.

Despite what I've just said about not being manipulated...

Don't have any experience of this so no idea whether completely lunatic suggestion or not...but if at the end of this, you and DH make a fresh start together, how about changing DD, your own and new baby name to be double barrelled - including both your own and DH name? I would expect DH to do same if you did go that route, but as you quite rightly say, walk a mile in someone's shoes.

BTW, I didn't mean help as in you should be more accepting of this. Quite the reverse. More than there is a so much emotion in this, at a very emotional (hormonal) time, it is possible to kind of get 'stuck' in a cycle of anger. Really you also need to deal with the sort of bereavement you can experience after having your trust shattered and then being forced to move on too quickly (because of both pg's) without resolving much of your own emotion.

MissG I hope you are very much right and I that I am very much wrong otherwise the whole saga gets even worse doesn't it.

MacD I have no advice but a lot of sympathy for the complete mess you are in. I'm glad that my "illegitimate" has my surname, his name isn't on her certificate it makes no odds to me (though I find it sad that her certificate has a blank space) I have paternity testing proof and that is enough.

fair enough macdoodle

do you honestly think you can make things work with DH , as she is always going to be in the background

you seem like a smart, intelligent, capable , self sufficient woman who could manage perfectly well alone, or with a decent man

I find this thread incredible on so many levels...

Sympathy for all involved - with the exception of the useless man that is. If I was in the OP's position I would leave him. No way would I want my (illegitimate BTW ) DD growing up thinking that this is an acceptable way for any adult man (never mind Dad) to behave towards the women in his life and Mum is going to accept it!

And as for the suggestion of calling social services on the ex !! How on earth can this woman's parenting skills be judged on a website by strangers when she hasn't even given birth yet!?

I've just thought of another example (sorry i tend to think in examples in cases I haven't experienced)

MIL- she is one of eight

except she is only one of two

Her dad slept around a lot (in the end her Mum did a bunk as it happened and left them all).

MIL knows who some of her siblings are but refuses to have anything to do with them because they are- I use the phrase to quote her, not the OP- Illegitimate . She also has no contact with her sister as her sister had an affair, or her son (my DH) as when FIl left her he refused to side.

I am not sure if there is any moral or anything, but I do think had she been raised with a full family she would be less superior (I'm the legitimate one, my way is RIGHT) and would be much happier and less inclined to alienate people. From what i can see, she has gradually alientated all around her.

I'm not saying you're alienating poeple BTW- just that she does.

Life is a complex thing and can throw some strange balls at us. If something awful happened and your child lost you / Dh wouldn't you feel better knowing he or she had a sibling out there he could share genes with? I don't mean live with or anything, just someone who feels a part of them. I dunno, you see adopted people (thinking of FIL here) and so often they are desperate for that bit of identity. I do think it comes after you sooner or later, and if you have a hand in building a good relationship between siblings now at least you'll get an input.

In some ways I think you're strong- I couldn't accept it if Dh behaved like this, and I do love him very much. I also happen to think ypu'd be better without him b ut of course I don't know either of you in RL and can't really judge beyond the narrow perspective that we see on here. I hope you're getting counselling for yourself not just as a couple- Heaven knows I would need it reagrdless of whether I stayed with DH or not!

When you read the things on here, the posts that make you ouch the most, ask yourself why. I dont mean the argumentative ones that MN does so well: the other more down to earth ones. This child is a part of your life now, and as a result so is this other women. Mending your relationship does mean an acceptance of that I am afraid, painful as that must really be. The name etc things might hurt but they're all just symptomatic of so many other hurts and either they're resolved properly now- with acceptance being the only route I suspect- or you will have a lot of pain ahead of you.

I do agree guitargirl about the SS aspect- if she is a bad mother when she has the child by all means call SS- but give maternal love / attachement / pg hormones / sense of loss a chance to rebalance itself first. I don't hold her 50% responsible- I think she could have behaved better and should have beena ware she was setting herself up, but part of marriage imo is taking on the responsibility to stop yourself shagging around.

Oh gosh I am sermonsising again- apologies

Actually despite DH being a prat of highest order - I do feel sorry for him he really seems torn he wants to be part of this babies life he wants to support it but he also wants me and his family back - and she is manipulating him and playing games with her child already doesn't bode well - in his words "he knows he fucked up" "he didn't want a child with her" "but its here now and he has to deal with it" - pity he wasn't so sensible a year ago

well, hes certainly very good at manipulating you. you even feel sorry for him!
i bet hes just grinning out of both ends

Do remember that a woman who can play games with a child she hasn't yet met and fallen in love with, won't necessarily be able to do so when she has given birth to it. No guarantees, but a distinct possibility In would think. I never got my head around the whole my child bit with ds1 until he was born, some poeple are like that.

Listen to Peachy, she talks sense.
Particularly the bit abut acceptance. If you were anyway confident of your dh you actually would not have a problem with the name thing. The smartest thing to do would be to be gracious and magnaminous, say 'of course my dc's sibling should have the same name, I wouldn't dream of having it any other way'. this would clearly signal to the OW that you were confident that your dh has chosen you and values your relationship too much to risk it with her again. However, sadly, I suspect this is not the case, I suspect that you don't feel confident that he has chosen you.
Accepting his unconventionally conceived child into your life doesn't mean you are weak it means you are strong.

I was trying to say what carmenere just put so eloquently.

God, Macdoodle, I really feel for you. Having all this stress during your pregnancy must be horrendous. IMO you have every right to vent here; you need somewhere where you can let it all out.

is it possible that the ow wants the fathers name so that her lo isn't seen as 'illegitimate' by those who choose to label - maybe she wants people to know there is a father (obviously!) - and for her baby to be seen to be the product of a relationship of sorts - marriage or no marriage, your dh lied and strung both of you along. both lo's are in the same boat surely. this is an awful situation and i wish the best for you and the lo's.

why thank you edam some of my very close RL friends know all of it but not many - they are supportive but wary and I suspect sick and tired of each new twist and turn - if I am honest I don't really want him her or her baby in my life - the reality is far harder as I now have 2 DC linking me to him - I come from a very bitter abusive marriage and my parents even now don't talk and slag each other off to us - it is the one thing I have been desperate to avoid for my DD (and now DC2) maybe to my detriment but she is only 5 and years of us hating each other and fighting is not what I want for her

oh I don't trust him am not confident in what he says - I don't think he would end up with her but TBH I think that would be better punishment than any I could dish out - he is hard man terrible husband and not easy to live with ....